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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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UrbicaMortis posted:See Adequate's post on the last page for why this won't happen. It's within the Sinn Fein constitution to not take their seats and an MP would be expelled from the party if they did it. Short of the government trying to pass internment camps for catholics, SF ain't taking their seats. I saw that. I was more wondering if this scenario is something the SF bosses daydream about as a What If or still a total non-starter
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Jun 9, 2017 23:48
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Beefeater1980 posted:It's fascinating what happens with politically driven name changes of cities: lots of people in Mumbai still call it Bombay, Ho Chi Min City is still Saigon to half the population, and there are probably as many people in St Petersburg who still call it Leningrad as there were in Leningrad who still called it St Petersburg. Petrograd 
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Jun 9, 2017 23:49
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Sydin posted:This is A Good PostTM There's absolutely no guarantee that the Tories would fare any better in another election, especially as they still don't have any sort of coherent manifesto, because they left it intentionally blank expecting a landslide win. Labour clearly won the ground war, and that was fought under the assumption they would lose seats -- it was damage control. If they allocate resources with today's results in mind they have a good chance of swinging a fair few more seats only lost by tens or hundreds.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:49
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Supposing there were another election, when would that be? Would there be time for more campaigning, or would it just go straight to a vote?
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Jun 9, 2017 23:51
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I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that?
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Jun 9, 2017 23:51
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smug n stuff posted:Supposing there were another election, when would that be? Would there be time for more campaigning, or would it just go straight to a vote?
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Jun 9, 2017 23:51
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SpaceDrake posted:Pretty much quote #2. Both the UDA and IRA were murderous eye-for-an-eye fuckheads during the Troubles. The UDA probably had a fair about of under-table support from London, but the IRA had some backers in Dublin and ultimately it all kept resulting in people taking potshots at schoolgirls based on what religion they were theoretically born into. Percentage wise the UDA and British forces killed more civilians than the IRA. Not to say the IRA didn't kill more civilians as a whole but they targeted military and paramilitary forces. The UDA targeted civilian Catholics.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:52
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dont even fink about it posted:I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that?
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Jun 9, 2017 23:52
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dont even fink about it posted:I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that? Soft Brexit isn't that awful and if there's no Brexit at all UKIP might get 100+ MPs next election and it happens anyway, but you still have to deal with UKIP. Basically, too many people want it to happen for it not to be political suicide.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:53
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dont even fink about it posted:I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that? Brexits "done", it's settled. It's unfortunately what people voted for, and trying to argue against that doesn't really work.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:53
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dont even fink about it posted:I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that? you only live once
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Jun 9, 2017 23:54
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Hi I know the situation in Northern Ireland is complicated but can someone sum it up in terms of Harry Potter? Preferably in less than two sentences. Who is Dobby in this metaphor. Are there an equivalent to hippogriffs.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:55
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I can't see the Tories letting May have another general election, whenever it is.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:55
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Marenghi posted:Percentage wise the UDA and British forces killed more civilians than the IRA. Not to say the IRA didn't kill more civilians as a whole but they targeted military and paramilitary forces. The UDA targeted civilian Catholics.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:55
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Pissflaps posted:I can't see the Tories letting May have another general election, whenever it is.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:55
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I saw that. I was more wondering if this scenario is something the SF bosses daydream about as a What If or still a total non-starter Its a non starter. SF used to refuse to send candidates to the Irish parliament as they refused to acknowledge its legitimacy and the decision to abandon that policy caused a split and a small hard line splinter faction to break off. Dissident republicans, those who refuse to accept the good Friday agreement that ended the IRAs armed campaign, are an active force that regularly launch attempted attacks and SF has to run active oppo stuff against them to keep their old hard men in line and stop them drifting due to perceived minimal gains from peace Voting to end abstention would enrage a lot of old hands and committed republicans and cause a non-insubstantial split
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Jun 9, 2017 23:56
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Pissflaps posted:I can't see the Tories letting May have another general election, whenever it is. They would be insane to do so. They need to form this government however purely so they can have a chance of replacing her before another one takes place. If they don't gently caress knows what would happen, replacing a leader during an election process I don't think has ever been done.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:57
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dont even fink about it posted:I take it from what I am hearing on the issue from all parties that even left-wing groups have given up on "No Brexit At All, Thanks." What is the political calculus behind that? Short version is that the UK has more-or-less accepted that as dumb as Brexit is, it's what the people voted for and that has to be respected. We'd all rather get on with sorting it out and getting the best deal we can manage than trying to refight it, especially given that we're on a timer and can't fanny around being undecided.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:57
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Skinty McEdger posted:They would be insane to do so. They need to form this government however purely so they can have a chance of replacing her before another one takes place. If they don't gently caress knows what would happen, replacing a leader during an election process I don't think has ever been done. i mean the only other real candidate is fuckin' boris and uhhhhh
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Jun 9, 2017 23:58
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Mister Adequate posted:Was it the Greysteel Massacre? A goddamn travesty just as much as the Shankill Bombing. Either way, condolences to your mate, and the need to make sure the generation beneath ours never truly comprehends what it was like is why we have to do whatever possible to keep things stable. Nah, he was a taxi driver. My friend was working in a bar with a taxi rank outside, so knew all the drivers. He was called away and shot in some country lane.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:58
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Would it be much more the norm for a leader who hosed up as badly as May to resign and avoid putting their party in the difficult position of preparing to replace them?
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Jun 9, 2017 23:59
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smug n stuff posted:Supposing there were another election, when would that be? Would there be time for more campaigning, or would it just go straight to a vote? There'd be a ~5 week long campaign, and it would probably be clear for a week or two before the actual campaign that the election is happening.
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Jun 9, 2017 23:59
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SFs recent "all in" decision to abandon power sharing (for the time being) and push for big concessions was in part motivated by a stagnating vote and substantial challenges from socialist candidates in their heartland areas feeding on discontent with SFs continued participation with regional power sharing with little advancement for their political aims. Since they've shifted to a more combatative tone (referendum on unification now! Irish language act now!) nationalist turnout has leaped and they are reaping rewards and crushing the other major moderate nationalist party who did attend Westminster, wiping them out at this election Abstention is winning them elections so they ain't going to change course now
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Jun 10, 2017 00:01
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Night10194 posted:Would it be much more the norm for a leader who hosed up as badly as May to resign and avoid putting their party in the difficult position of preparing to replace them?
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Jun 10, 2017 00:01
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Night10194 posted:Would it be much more the norm for a leader who hosed up as badly as May to resign and avoid putting their party in the difficult position of preparing to replace them? If there weren't brexit negotiations fast approaching May would have resigned today, no doubt about it
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Jun 10, 2017 00:01
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It's very apt that about half of this is Theresa looking like she's contemplating shooting up right there and then.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:02
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Tsaedje posted:Only needs 7 disaffected Tories to switch or 14 to abstain A Tory has my constituency so I plan to mail him every day telling him why the DUP are cunts and should be told to gently caress off.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:02
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Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:03
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Tsaedje posted:I think the BBC style guide is to call it "Derry/Londonderry", but then they still call Myanmar Burma, so I dunno Angepain posted:Hi I know the situation in Northern Ireland is complicated but can someone sum it up in terms of Harry Potter? Preferably in less than two sentences. Who is Dobby in this metaphor. Are there an equivalent to hippogriffs.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:03
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Sydin posted:Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:04
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Sydin posted:Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally. Yep pretty much. We are standing on top of a cliff and have just shoved the anchor chained to our leg off it.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:04
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I think tangis are hippogriffs?
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Jun 10, 2017 00:04
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happyhippy posted:Nah, he was a taxi driver. My friend was working in a bar with a taxi rank outside, so knew all the drivers. He was called away and shot in some country lane. Feck. Load of bollocks.  Sorry to hear that.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:04
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Sydin posted:Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally. The guy who wrote article 50 is of the strong opinion it can be untriggered, but there's no political appetite for it.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:05
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Sydin posted:Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally. Realistically if the UK just said, no, we've decided not to actually, the EU isn't going to boot us out. But this is all academic because Brexit is happening short of Lib Dems somehow getting a majority in the next election.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:06
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kustomkarkommando posted:Its a non starter. SF used to refuse to send candidates to the Irish parliament as they refused to acknowledge its legitimacy and the decision to abandon that policy caused a split and a small hard line splinter faction to break off. I see. SF coming out of nowhere is still one hell of a thought experiment. How much longer do The Troubles old guard have left?
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Jun 10, 2017 00:06
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Guavanaut posted:Myanmar has ~associations~ with the military dictatorship for many Burmese too. Burma/Burmese is a reference to the majority Bamar ethnicity so can be seen as an exclusionary term beyond the associations with colonialism though. Particularly relevant considering the government's attitudes to other ethnicities there
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Jun 10, 2017 00:07
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Angepain posted:Thanks for this. Maybe someone put this in the OP as it might come up a lot? El Derry (from L'Derry) or Stroke City (Derry/Londonderry). But just go ahead and call it Derry. All the residents of Derry do so, nationalist and unionist. There are Protestant insititutions based there called things like "The Apprentice Boys of Derry" who commemorate the "siege of Derry". Only scary loyalists from other counties and British newsreaders call it Londonderry. No complaints from me on Mister Adequate's effort post either, and I'm from the other side. It could maybe use a paragraph about why there is no Stormont Executive at the minute and why there won't be, but I can assure you that SF are sitting back and enjoying all of this, in a way that would put you in mind of Littlefinger's "chaos is a ladder" comment. They have collapsed powersharing and have Arlene Foster, the DUP leader and supposed First Minister, seriously flustered. To correct a misgiving in the past few pages, though: Their announcement regarding the breach of the Good Friday Agreement is not an implicit threat of a return to violence, IRA on the streets, gun battles on the peacelines etc. It's a simple "this is an international binding treaty and you cannot break the terms of it as we absolutely will challenge it" warning. They've been sitting quietly with that one up their sleeve in the event of Brexit, holding the legal threat of "You can't Brexit us too, it's in the treaty that we have to stay in the EU and be subject to the ECHR" and waiting for the right time use it. Since they can utterly gently caress up May's government, they've pulled it out now. SF are very, very savvy political players and have an end game in mind. Gerry Adams won't be running to the queen to say the SF members will take their seats, not just because they won't (and that's entirely down to the oath to the queen, not the legitimacy of the UK government, but they also can't do that because they've been quashing rivals like Gerry Carroll of the far left People Before Profit in west Belfast from becoming a serious challenge by yelling from the rooftops that he's a Brit and a traitor and a unionist because he said he'd take the oath) because he's not even involved in politics in the north right now. He's a sitting TD in the Irish Dáil, where SF have been slowly but very surely increasing their presence and influence over the past 15 years. They are purely political players and very adept at turning chaos to their advantage. Stormont will not reform because it suits their interests to not allow it to reform. Theresa May will not form a government with the DUP because SF will not allow her to form a government with the DUP, by taking her to an international tribunal for breaking the terms of the treaty. They can and will be able to pull the same stunt in two years time if they try to take the north out of the EU. The GFA is their trump card and they will play it as and when it suits them.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:07
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I see. SF coming out of nowhere is still one hell of a thought experiment. Well Martin McGuinness carked it a few weeks ago, so probably not all that long - but the young hotheads are that much younger to carry the grudge for a long time yet.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:08
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Sydin posted:Would it even be possible to stop Brexit at this point if people wanted to? I thought the triggering of article 50 was a point of no return legally. Yes. The EU said so.
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Jun 10, 2017 00:09
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