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Waffles Inc. posted:The wife of a friend of mine absolutely detests comic book movies from basically every angle (and she's right most of the time about why they're bad), but she's been gushing about WW from the second it was over What exactly does she hate about CB movies and how is WW any different?
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 02:48 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:53 |
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Super Fan posted:What exactly does she hate about CB movies and how is WW any different? I'm making an assumption here, but maybe she's not super into big action movie spectacles and is more into dramas? I have friends like this. Things I observed/noticed in WW that are typically absent in other CB movies were the more sensual aspects of film, both serious and comedic. The whole "pleasures of the flesh" talk on the boat, the Steve "above average" scene, etc., and the romance being really effective and genuinely affecting (imo). Sorta comes with the character I suppose, but the film embraced those kind of elements, which are things you might find more so in a romantic drama/comedy. This is a big reason why I enjoyed the film as much as I did, personally. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jun 9, 2017 |
# ? Jun 9, 2017 03:30 |
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Was Dr Poison supposed to be Turkish?
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 08:17 |
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Steve Yun posted:Was Dr Poison supposed to be Turkish? Hard to say. The comics character is Japanese. Elena Anaya is Spanish.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 08:22 |
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The character is spanish as well. Thus the name, Isabel Maru.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 13:30 |
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I think the likelihood of WW beating MOS's domestic haul (291 million) is growing. Worldwide (668 million) is a little more iffy. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/06/08/box-office-wonder-woman-soaring-past-300-million-worldwide/#5267e29db6d3 quote:Box Office: 'Wonder Woman' Soars Over $300 Million Worldwide
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 13:37 |
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Super Fan posted:What exactly does she hate about CB movies and how is WW any different? I mean I dunno I don't usually interrogate people about why they don't like a thing, but it's probably a lot of this v v v v v v teagone posted:I'm making an assumption here, but maybe she's not super into big action movie spectacles and is more into dramas? I have friends like this. Things I observed/noticed in WW that are typically absent in other CB movies were the more sensual aspects of film, both serious and comedic. The whole "pleasures of the flesh" talk on the boat, the Steve "above average" scene, etc., and the romance being really effective and genuinely affecting (imo). Sorta comes with the character I suppose, but the film embraced those kind of elements, which are things you might find more so in a romantic drama/comedy. This is a big reason why I enjoyed the film as much as I did, personally. In addition to the fact that the hero was a powerful woman raised by powerful women. It's empowering.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 17:06 |
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 18:53 |
Heh, "SMALL THOUGHTS"
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 19:02 |
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it's facetious, m8
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 19:15 |
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LMAO Vegetable posted:it's facetious, m8 I prefer to read this as 100% serious.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 19:22 |
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Waffles Inc. posted:]In addition to the fact that the hero was a powerful woman raised by powerful women. It's empowering. Oh yeah, I was pointing out things that (I think) weren't as clear/obvious to a dude as to why a woman would be more drawn to liking Wonder Woman over other comic book movies.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 20:23 |
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teagone posted:Oh yeah, I was pointing out things that (I think) weren't as clear/obvious to a dude as to why a woman would be more drawn to liking Wonder Woman over other comic book movies. Also, it has a more humanistic sensibility to some of the war horror. And no mans land is a more emotional honest beat than anything out of the marvel universe.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 20:33 |
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poptart_fairy posted:I really, really enjoyed the film, but drat if that first trench scene didn't take me out of things. Just like Captain America's shield, it was a little too silly to accept that every single German would be using machine guns on the exact same point of an indestructible shield. Aim a little lower guys, you would have won. Also, those MGs had the wrong rate of fire for Germany in 1918.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 20:40 |
LionArcher posted:And no mans land is a more emotional honest beat than anything out of the marvel universe. That's basically it. Even as it ultimately pulls back from the feel-good glow of the snowy firelit evening in the village, it feels sincere and not cynical.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 00:22 |
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LionArcher posted:And no mans land is a more emotional honest beat than anything out of the marvel universe. Very true.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 00:24 |
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Waffles Inc. posted:I mean I dunno I don't usually interrogate people about why they don't like a thing, but it's probably a lot of this v v v v v v So why bring it up in the first place
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 01:57 |
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I feel like the No Man's Land scene would have been a bit better if Diana's hair didn't look like it was perfectly wondblown as she was confronting all of those bullets. Still enjoyed the hell out of it, though. The 3rd act kind of falls apart thematically. I feel like that scene where she spares an enemy would have been more effective if it were a nameless, unmasked German soldier, one of whose fellows she was just carving her way through earlier in the movie. The whole nominal importance thing, where the masterminds of an atrocity are spared because they happen to be unarmed while the low level troops just following orders are slaughtered en masse in the heat of battle, always bugged me. Still, it's a pretty good movie. Not a great movie, and not as good as Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (which holds together much better throughout) or Logan (I just really like how that movie uses the beat of the score to emphasize the growing tension of the scene), but for D.C. it's a huge step up.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 04:23 |
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Mars4523 posted:Still, it's a pretty good movie. Not a great movie, and not as good as Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (which holds together much better throughout) or Logan (I just really like how that movie uses the beat of the score to emphasize the growing tension of the scene), but for D.C. it's a huge step up. I get you prefer the happier tone and less internally conflicted character arcs, but c'mon. Quit this poo poo. Unless you're only talking about Suicide Squad, in which case carry on. Drifter fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 10, 2017 |
# ? Jun 10, 2017 06:01 |
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Here's something I don't understand. The movie wants moral complexity of some kind but then, why choose WW1? It's never been a subject of great interest to me but I thought the tragedy of the whole thing was because it was a giant clusterfuck of alliances and people in charge and then all the little folks got dragged into it. The movie wants to juxtapose Wonder Woman's idealism with more realism. Killing Ares won't solve everything because People Are Bad All On Their Own. But this is provably false here. The Real Life Ares that caused WW1 are entirely to blame. World War 1 is not a case of...I dunno what to call it. Grassroots activism is the positive so I guess call it grassroots violence. The kind of racial, ethnic, religious and class tensions that exist everywhere but are more obvious since the end of the Cold War. If the moral of the story is that people can be good and bad, maybe look at the people? WW1 is a story of people being puppeted around by what might as well be gods of war. If you want to highlight the banality of evil, maybe set it during a conflict that involves average folks being awful instead of average folks being sent off to fight and die for some aristocrats who, if they were removed, would have solved a lot of problems. This movie was no Man of Steel. It's very simplistic and when it tried to do something more complex, it failed because it was very cheap and forced and lasted five minutes. It's a very "safe" movie with nothing to say. Just enjoy the action and cool music.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 06:12 |
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Got to see this again tonight with my Mom and Sister along with my cousins. Seeing it the 2nd time all the stuff with the Linda Carter Wonder Woman call backs were pretty great. My sister was a huuuuuuge Wonder Woman fan and when Wonder Woman get's ready for the trenches she pointed out that she put her hair down from a pony tail which was common thing in the TV series I guess ?
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 06:31 |
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NikkolasKing posted:Here's something I don't understand. The movie wants moral complexity of some kind but then, why choose WW1? It's never been a subject of great interest to me but I thought the tragedy of the whole thing was because it was a giant clusterfuck of alliances and people in charge and then all the little folks got dragged into it. Yes...that's what makes it morally complex. It was a war with no side clearly morally superior to the other. WWII was much more Black and White.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 07:41 |
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The sex discussion on the boat was improvised! What? https://www.polygon.com/2017/6/9/15772134/wonder-woman-improv quote:Wonder Woman is a movie that thrives on its ability to be funny, empowering and corny — a word director Patty Jenkins loves — all at once. It’s a testimony to writer Allan Heinberg’s talents, but one of the best scenes in the movie was completely improvised.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 12:06 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:I think the likelihood of WW beating MOS's domestic haul (291 million) is growing. Worldwide (668 million) is a little more iffy. Yeah it obviously had a smaller domestic opening weekend than the other DCEU films but then it beat them all on the following Tues/Wed/Thurs (WW: $32.8m, MoS: $27.5m, BvS: $28m, SS: $32.3m). MoS and BvS had a really sharp fall off and SS only did slightly better but it looks like Wonder Woman is going to have much better legs. We won't really be able to make any predictions on how it will track over the rest of its run until after the 2nd and maybe 3rd weekends but I've got a sneaking suspicion it might even give BvS a run for its money on the domestic front.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 12:06 |
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LionArcher posted:Also, it has a more humanistic sensibility to some of the war horror. And no mans land is a more emotional honest beat than anything out of the marvel universe. And any of the other DCEU movies too
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 12:31 |
Minor spoiler that I probably missed: Did Steve say at any point that he worked for the Americans or what? He's doing spy work for the British, including answering directly to generals but he has no British accent and Chief refers to him when Diana asks who took away Chief's freedom. I assume that I either didn't hear the explanation or it's just a thing they didn't feel the need to outright explain. Also: Chris Pine has a multiple movie deal. Use god trickery to bring him back to life in modern times so he can be the fish out of water that Diana slowly teaches about the world Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 13:26 |
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Minor spoiler that I probably missed: Did Steve say at any point that he worked for the Americans or what? He's doing spy work for the British, including answering directly to generals but he has no British accent and Chief refers to him when Diana asks who took away Chief's freedom. When he was lassoed on the island he said he was a member of the American expeditionary force, working for British intelligence
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 13:36 |
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Yaws posted:So why bring it up in the first place Your act is getting a bit creepy now hth
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 13:54 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:The sex discussion on the boat was improvised! What? This was probably the worst scene in the whole movie for me. The action came to a dead stop and then they have a conversation that felt really forced and corny and went on for ages. I guess now I know why!
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 14:13 |
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NikkolasKing posted:Here's something I don't understand. The movie wants moral complexity of some kind but then, why choose WW1? It's never been a subject of great interest to me but I thought the tragedy of the whole thing was because it was a giant clusterfuck of alliances and people in charge and then all the little folks got dragged into it. The poet's interpretation of WW1 as Lions lead by Lambs tends to go way too far in popular culture. Here's the thing, one of the most unsettling things about the war is that it was immensely popular among almost all the combatant countries for years, its difficult to understand in this day and age how deeply propaganda permeated into peoples lives, anti-German sentiment was massive in France for the decades leading up to war and vice versa, most of the countries involved were exceptionally heavily militarized, training pretty much their entire male populations for the event of such a war and as a result being able to call upon reserves of manpower that had never been seen before in human history. That allowed them to throw away previously inconceivable amounts of lives in attritional warfare and continue to fight for years and years, all of this was only possible because of the creation of Nationalist states that had significant popular support based on that nationalism. The popular response to initial outbreak of war was ecstatic, massive amounts of recruits in places like Britain joined up and people were heavily ostracized if they didn't join up (look up the white feather movement). Britain didn't even need to introduce conscription until 1916, while Australia had such levels of enthusiasm they never had conscription at all. In France you had legends like the taxis of Marne of everyone pitching in whatever it took to help the effort, while battles like Verdun, despite their horror, became almost a legendary part of the French national struggle for survival with its Commander, Philippe Pétain, gaining a rock star like status in the country. Popular movements that could have stemmed the war did little, Socialists and Communists in particular had argued about the prospect a pan European war prior to the actual war, it was conceivable that simultaneous national strikes in places like France and Germany could have forced the governments to stand down and go back to the negotiating table, but in the end they did nothing and roundly supported their governments decisions to move ahead with hostilities. It was only late into the war, around 1917, that the strain got so extreme that popular support began to falter in many countries, Russia had their revolutions, France had mutinies, in Britain the fallout from battles like Passchendaele was far, far more negative among the public than previous battles, including the Somme, while in Germany their food situation was getting really bad and the home front began to unravel. And yet it was only Russia that year where the war effort actually collapsed, even the mutinies in France were more about poor conditions and lack of supplies and leadership rather than fighting the war itself. In Germany the effort finally collapsed in 1918, after almost 2000000 people were killed at the front and thousands of civilians were starving to death every day by the end, and yet many people were shocked and infuriated that the war was lost. It was then that a myth emerged that the German army was not defeated in the field and could have marched to victory but politicians safe at home had surrendered prematurely, this idea was something the Nazis made an integral part of ideology. Even at the outbreak of war its hard to say that it was actually an intended outcome by any of the parties involved, I'd suggest reading a book called 'the Sleepwalkers' by Chris Clark that shows how much of a clusterfuck things were at the very highest governmental and diplomatic circles. The Kaiser for example, despite popular associations, seems to have been desperate to avoid a war while difficult to control elements of populist nationalism, like that which lead to Franz Ferdinand being killed, helped force events along without much control from above. When the war actually happened there were numerous atrocities carried out by regular troops in places like Serbia and Belgium. World War 1 is probably the best example I can think of for what you're talking about, at the end of the day I don't think you could have just taken down the bad guys in each country's respective government or military and the war would have just stopped, there was way too much momentum behind it and its something that the movie gets right.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 15:24 |
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khwarezm posted:The poet's interpretation of WW1 as Lions lead by Lambs tends to go way too far in popular culture. Here's the thing, one of the most unsettling things about the war is that it was immensely popular among almost all the combatant countries for years, its difficult to understand in this day and age how deeply propaganda permeated into peoples lives, anti-German sentiment was massive in France for the decades leading up to war and vice versa, most of the countries involved were exceptionally heavily militarized, training pretty much their entire male populations for the event of such a war and as a result being able to call upon reserves of manpower that had never been seen before in human history. That allowed them to throw away previously inconceivable amounts of lives in attritional warfare and continue to fight for years and years, all of this was only possible because of the creation of Nationalist states that had significant popular support based on that nationalism. Thank you for the information. Sounds like there was a lot more going on in the culture side of things than I ever knew and it wasn't just a top-down sort of thing. It's weird though because I've always heard WW1 is what helped to usher in the era of liberal democracy across Europe, as a reaction to WW1 where the powerful dragged the helpless into a nightmare. Oh well,. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll definitely check it out .It's even on Audible, which is very helpful to me.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:02 |
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NikkolasKing posted:Thank you for the information. Sounds like there was a lot more going on in the culture side of things than I ever knew and it wasn't just a top-down sort of thing. It's weird though because I've always heard WW1 is what helped to usher in the era of liberal democracy across Europe, as a reaction to WW1 where the powerful dragged the helpless into a nightmare. Oh well,. Well, it varied by country. In Germany and of course Russia the entire political system was overturned and new ones brought in, Germany had full universal suffrage under the Weimar Republic but I'm sure we're all aware that Liberal democracy did not last in Germany and was heavily associated with horrible instability through the twenties. Many big players prior and during the war became very important in politics, for example Paul von Hindenburg, president before Hitler, was probably the most famous and highly regarded general in the country and pretty much controlled the government at by the end of the war. In France the Third Republic pottered along as before, in fact it didn't really change that much at all, despite the insane strain on French society the war had brought, male suffrage was universal before the war and democracy had been robust, but in the interwar period politics became dangerously divided as quasi-fascist movements became more powerful. Women's suffrage wasn't even introduced until after world war 2. In Italy male suffrage was expanded but like Germany it went down an authoritarian path in large part due to the strain of war. Most of the Eastern Europe successor states like Poland were similar. It was mostly Britain where the war helped create a more recognizable Liberal democracy, with the Representation of the People Act in 1918. Woman's votes started to be allowed at the same time and expanded over the 20s, America then allowed female Suffrage in 1920 too. Again in Britain generals were highly regarded, including, and this is pretty Ironic considering his current reputation, Douglas Haig who was seen as fighter for the rights of former soldiers. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jun 10, 2017 |
# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:31 |
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Awhile back the newspaper comic thread was posting an old comic strip from that era called The Outbursts of Everett True, and it was a little surreal seeing a comic about a man getting mad at assholes turn into a comic about that same dude going around planting flags and getting pissed at pacifists and anti-war music after the US joined the war. It's really bizarre seeing that attitude applied to WW1.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:31 |
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:Awhile back the newspaper comic thread was posting an old comic strip from that era called The Outbursts of Everett True, and it was a little surreal seeing a comic about a man getting mad at assholes turn into a comic about that same dude going around planting flags and getting pissed at pacifists and anti-war music after the US joined the war. It's really bizarre seeing that attitude applied to WW1. Yea, I liked the ones where he beats up a pacifist / conscientious objector / someone who just doesn't want to die and drags their unconscious body to a recruiting center.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:36 |
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:Awhile back the newspaper comic thread was posting an old comic strip from that era called The Outbursts of Everett True, and it was a little surreal seeing a comic about a man getting mad at assholes turn into a comic about that same dude going around planting flags and getting pissed at pacifists and anti-war music after the US joined the war. It's really bizarre seeing that attitude applied to WW1. Oh yeah, its probably worth mentioning America's entry into the war, that was accompanied by virulent popular anti-German sentiment, as well as the anti-pacifist stuff. Its one of the reasons why German-America seems much less prominent than other identities in America despite such a massive proportion of the population having German descent and German culture having such obvious impact (ie Hot Dogs, Pretzels).
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:37 |
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khwarezm posted:Oh yeah, its probably worth mentioning America's entry into the war, that was accompanied by virulent popular anti-German sentiment, as well as the anti-pacifist stuff. Its one of the reasons why German-America seems much less prominent than other identities in America despite such a massive proportion of the population having German descent and German culture having such obvious impact (ie Hot Dogs, Pretzels). Yeah, I remember learning about the horrid anti-German racism in America at this time. It's one of many reasons why "White Identity" is such bullshit. The same type of people who love the Nazis now would have thought of Germans as inferior to Anglo-Saxons if they were born earlier. But, well, I'm of Irish descent. Irish-Americans are a notably very proud lot and I've always attributed that to the awful persecution. I wonder why Americans with Irish ancestry are so much more...passionate than Germans? Maybe it's entirely to do with feelings of kinship, given they were struggling against England for freedom just like us. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 10, 2017 |
# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:49 |
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khwarezm posted:Oh yeah, its probably worth mentioning America's entry into the war, that was accompanied by virulent popular anti-German sentiment, as well as the anti-pacifist stuff. Its one of the reasons why German-America seems much less prominent than other identities in America despite such a massive proportion of the population having German descent and German culture having such obvious impact (ie Hot Dogs, Pretzels). It really is the same pattern every time.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:57 |
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I keep hearing from reviewers how the third act of WW is weakest, even WHM who loved it unanimously, but I don't think so at all. Keeping with the way people compare the first two acts with other movies, act three reminded me of elements in Return of the Jedi and Dragon Ball Z. Tenuous admittedly but MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 10, 2017 |
# ? Jun 10, 2017 16:59 |
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NikkolasKing posted:Here's something I don't understand. The movie wants moral complexity of some kind but then, why choose WW1? It's never been a subject of great interest to me but I thought the tragedy of the whole thing was because it was a giant clusterfuck of alliances and people in charge and then all the little folks got dragged into it. While the proximate cause of entry for many countries was the "web of alliances" those alliances existed for a reason and expressed latent and serious tensions that were coming to a head anyway. It was exactly the kind of national-ethnic-class tension you mention that led to the assassination of Ferdinand, France was seeking revenge for humiliation in the Franco Prussian war and to establish dominance over the Franco German border states/territories, the British were trying to nip a rival naval colonial power in the bud, the Germans were already seeking lebensraum as part of the long influential drang nach osten ideology (basically German manifest destiny) and so forth. Support for the war was generally quite strong at first and had a lot of deep seeded bases that weren't "well they say we gotta so we gotta", though obviously many people did feel that way or even more strongly antiwar even in the beginning.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 19:45 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:53 |
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Drifter posted:
People can say that they dislike the DC films. It's very much allowed.
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# ? Jun 10, 2017 22:26 |