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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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TACD posted:I apparently didn't save it but somebody posted a plot earlier of voting tendencies by age group going back to the 90s... the divide now is much more stark than before, but it's not just people younger than 30 or so overwhelmingly voting Labour, it's people younger than 50 or so. I'm really looking forward to seeing that play out over the next 5–10 years. What I find really interesting about this divide is the major swing from Labour to Tory comes at the same age you'd have to be to remember pre-Thatcher politics. Those of us who grew up during or after her legacy have got a very different context for our political views than those who didn't. I think in another 10-20 years there's going to be a sizeable shift in the politics of this country because of that.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:43
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Angepain posted:If there's an election really soon I wonder if tactical voting is going to go way up on account of how stupidly easy it will be. Like, if you're wondering who's going to be in first and second place? Remember two months ago? When we had exactly the same vote? Probably that. This is why the Tories are right to be terrified. If you're serious about making the Tories gently caress off with their hard Brexit, you have only one number to bet on and if you vote for anyone else you're a purist loon [insert JK Rowling shrinking into a corncob].
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Jun 11, 2017 12:44
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God drat it, I can only have one AV picture
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Jun 11, 2017 12:44
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Zero Gravitas posted:God drat it, I can only have one AV picture Your current av is still very, very good 
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Jun 11, 2017 12:45
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And your av is very topical now
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Jun 11, 2017 12:49
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sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right?
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Jun 11, 2017 12:53
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Finally joined the Labour party. It's not much, but figure they need all the cash they can get for the next election in a few months. My productivity for a Sunday.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:55
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DroneRiff posted:Finally joined the Labour party. It's not much, but figure they need all the cash they can get for the next election in a few months. Welcome aboard! You should also think about joining a union - Unite's a good 'un.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:55
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Jose posted:will sex robots end people turning into nazis? maybe
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Jun 11, 2017 12:57
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? Scottish Torys presented themselves as the Unionist vote, the SNP greatly over-estimated the desire for a 2nd independence referendum, Scottish Labour are still shite.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:57
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? The scottish tories are more moderate than the english tories and also became the only unionist party that was credible given scotlab are a shambles and the SNP explicitly went back to "A vote for us is a vote for indyref2" campaigning. DroneRiff posted:Finally joined the Labour party. It's not much, but figure they need all the cash they can get for the next election in a few months. Man, we're going to smash 800,000, aren't we? Let's get another campaign every 6 months 
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Jun 11, 2017 12:58
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? Tories have fairly successfully marketed themselves as the Conservative and Unionist party, which directly opposes them to the SNP and a second independence referendum. They picked up a lot of votes from people wanting to get rid of SNP Mps. Hopefully, the Labour resurge means the votes will go back to them instead of the Tories, but it would require ScotLab to be a little better than 'buh buh buh we also oppose the SNP'
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Jun 11, 2017 12:58
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? over 55% of the country don't want to leave the UK, Nicola Sturgeon insisted there would be an IndyRef 2, pushing voters away from the SNP towards the unionist parties. She also said that ScotLab would go along with a second referendum making the Tories the only choice for people who really care about the union. The run up to this election has really done a lot to show up Sturgeon as not being the savvy political operator people think she is.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:58
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? It's mostly people voting for them as a unionist party against the SNP, a nationalist party. The scottish conservatives have a pretty skilled leader who has been able to position the party as the best choice if you don't want independence.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:59
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SNP and Labour should merge. Nicola Sturgeon can be deputy leader, Tom Watson can get hosed. Scotland can have devo-max to sweeten the deal.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:00
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Baron Corbyn posted:over 55% of the country don't want to leave the UK, Nicola Sturgeon insisted there would be an IndyRef 2, pushing voters away from the SNP towards the unionist parties. She also said that ScotLab would go along with a second referendum making the Tories the only choice for people who really care about the union. The run up to this election has really done a lot to show up Sturgeon as not being the savvy political operator people think she is. The difficulty the SNP face is that they've now admitted indyref2 put a lot of people off, but if they abandon that immediate ambition they become a boring centrist party with a terrible record on education.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:00
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Gort posted:Welcome aboard! You should also think about joining a union - Unite's a good 'un. Already a Unison memeber as I'm an NHS bod. Always been a Labour voting commie, but after this election, though "Hell, it's about time. Support Full Gay Communism Now!"
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Jun 11, 2017 13:02
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thanks everyone! don't really have a good understanding of scottish politics, so the education is appreciated. 
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Jun 11, 2017 13:02
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learnincurve posted:Department of work and pensions? Won't have to do much press and it fits in with her whole treating people equally thing.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:04
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jabby posted:The difficulty the SNP face is that they've now admitted indyref2 put a lot of people off, but if they abandon that immediate ambition they become a boring centrist party with a terrible record on education. yep, they're in a pretty difficult position and Labour really need to sort out Scottish Labour to take advantage of that. I think now that Corbyn as Prime Minister is a realistic possibility, that's the first step in making a vote for Labour more attractive.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:04
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Also the Scottish Tories have never done anything interesting or of consequence in living memory so they can pretty much push No Independence as their only thing and not be bogged down by any policies they've had any influence on whatsoever because there aren't really any. Hopefully once they actually have to do stuff at Westminster people will realise they're Tories? And maybe if ScotLab stop being poo poo? Please?jabby posted:The difficulty the SNP face is that they've now admitted indyref2 put a lot of people off, but if they abandon that immediate ambition they become a boring centrist party with a terrible record on education. Yeah, I really wouldn't want to be Nicola right now. I have no idea what the SNP can do now to keep it's base happy and regain votes at the same time.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:06
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has a prime minister ever lost his own seat
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Jun 11, 2017 13:07
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Kurtofan posted:has a prime minister ever lost his own seat Arthur Balfour in 1905. Ramsay MacDonald would have in 1935 if he hadn't been replaced as Prime Minister a few months earlier by Stanley Baldwin.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:13
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Angepain posted:Also the Scottish Tories have never done anything interesting or of consequence in living memory so they can pretty much push No Independence as their only thing and not be bogged down by any policies they've had any influence on whatsoever because there aren't really any. Hopefully once they actually have to do stuff at Westminster people will realise they're Tories? And maybe if ScotLab stop being poo poo? Please? Also, do the scottish tories have literally anyone other than Davidson who can appear human on TV?
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Jun 11, 2017 13:14
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May starting her reshuffle at 2pm. Bet she wishes she could shuffle herself out of the job of PM.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:15
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jabby posted:May starting her reshuffle at 2pm. Huh? She's actually going to do one? Better hope whoever she takes out isn't annoyed about it.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:18
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So, uh, what happens next? Corbyn isn't PM, but May had her legs cut off and has to be propped up by some NI weirdos. Would the next election play well as a second referendum on Brexit? The Tories clearly have no mandate to negotiate a Brexit, not when some Irish Teabaggers have all leverage in negotiations. So can (or would) Corbyn go "let's take backsies on this Brexit thing"?
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Jun 11, 2017 13:18
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Lunar Suite posted:
I genuinely find young tories creepier than facists. I'm dangerously close to a big lebowski joke here, but at least neofacists belive in something, they're FOR something. Young Tories just seem to be against the left, and have nothing to offer than the vague idea that being conservative is sensible and grown up.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:19
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botany posted:sorry for dragging this up again but can anyone explain to a foreigner what the deal is with scotland trending conservative? i always thought of scotland as fairly left, did something happen specifically to make them trend right? The Scottish Labour party is devolved and their MPs/party apparatus was primarily descended from the Blair years, where Scotland was such a total Labour stronghold that it was used to parachute in more right wing candidates and, although probably not to the extent some people claim (Brown our last Labour Prime Minister was Scottish) was taken for granted. This chafed Scotland for the reasons you listed- a bit like Canada, they'd partially developed a national identity of being the cooler more left wing neighbor to the country below them. Scottish Labour never stopped being the kind of centrist-careerist-Blairites that Corbyn represents a break from, which left a hole for left wing voters. Enter the SNP. The Scottish Nationalist Party capitalized on these conditions by completely revamping their image (they used to vote with the Conservatives and were dismissively called "tartan tories") into one of a progressive nationalist party. Soon enough they started gaining success in their regional parliament and implementing wildly popular policies: no tuition fees and free prescriptions are some examples. They parlayed this support into a push for a Scottish independence referendum (which I do not claim to be neutral on, I do not think it is/was a good idea for either country) which although unsuccessful, gave them a very energized and enthusiastic base. This base was a very broad church (basically everyone who wanted independence from all sides of the political spectrum) so they nabbed almost literally every single Scottish MP seat in the 2015 election. Unfortunately, they made noises about another independence referendum recently (bad, bad call) and the Scottish Conservative party had elected a wildly popular politician, Ruth Davidson, a much more socially liberal person who was fantastic on gay rights (being married to a woman herself) and who managed to detoxify the party, mostly through her personal brand. So: Scottish Labour is a basketcase but Corbyn's personal popularity somewhat split the left vote, the SNP accidentally energized the unionist vote and ran an awful campaign, so the Ruth Davidson party took a bunch of Scottish seats for the Tories. Is that understandable? CoolCab fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 13:19
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UrbicaMortis posted:Also, do the scottish tories have literally anyone other than Davidson who can appear human on TV? Nobody knows, as none of them has ever said a word in public that anyone remembers. We can't be entirely sure that the Scottish Tories aren't just Ruth Davidson and a collection of convincing animatronic puppets.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:20
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Bardeh posted:Huh? She's actually going to do one? Better hope whoever she takes out isn't annoyed about it. She's probably just going to replace the people who lost their seats. Like you say, even pissing off a handful of people could collapse her government or make life impossible for her.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ_tbf6j2A
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Jun 11, 2017 13:21
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Kurtofan posted:has a prime minister ever lost his own seat Bozza (worra ledj) has only got about a 5K majority in Uxbridge, OTOH. I wonder if he's going to try and parachute into a safer seat for the late 2017 election?
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Jun 11, 2017 13:23
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Also Scottish Labour have responded to the SNP's popularity and focus on independence by going into full-on attack mode and never shutting up about how bad the SNP and independence are. There's a meme of "SNP bad" that has kinda morphed into a blanket reaction against any criticism of the glorious SNP by the hardline nat crowd, but it did start off as a valid criticism, that Scottish Labour were really bad at putting forward a positive vision of their own. There was a while when any interview any of them did looked like a game where they tried to find the smallest number of words to go from what the question was about to an excuse to start talking about the SNP again. So, Scottish Labour are kind of in disarray and their only selling point that anyone remembered was being against independence, and then the Scottish Tories sweep in with a large wad of cash and a collection of leaflets with very helpful bar charts and a selection of newspaper headlines implying that someone from Labour once said a nice thing about Scotland being independent, and they manage to out-anti-independence ScotLab while they're busy hitting themselves. Scotland is fun
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Jun 11, 2017 13:27
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jabby posted:She's probably just going to replace the people who lost their seats. Like you say, even pissing off a handful of people could collapse her government or make life impossible for her. Yeah, plus she already confirmed all the big beasts were staying in place. Hammond and Boris would probably have been removed if she had won a decent majority.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:33
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Angepain posted:Also Scottish Labour have responded to the SNP's popularity and focus on independence by going into full-on attack mode and never shutting up about how bad the SNP and independence are. There's a meme of "SNP bad" that has kinda morphed into a blanket reaction against any criticism of the glorious SNP by the hardline nat crowd, but it did start off as a valid criticism, that Scottish Labour were really bad at putting forward a positive vision of their own. There was a while when any interview any of them did looked like a game where they tried to find the smallest number of words to go from what the question was about to an excuse to start talking about the SNP again. So, Scottish Labour are kind of in disarray and their only selling point that anyone remembered was being against independence, and then the Scottish Tories sweep in with a large wad of cash and a collection of leaflets with very helpful bar charts and a selection of newspaper headlines implying that someone from Labour once said a nice thing about Scotland being independent, and they manage to out-anti-independence ScotLab while they're busy hitting themselves. Not to mention, Kezia Dugdale is a complete non-entity, so much so that I'm not even sure I spelled that right. I can all but guarantee that all of Labour's gains in Scotland were on the back of Corbyn and not anything she or Scottish Labour have done.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:36
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CoolCab posted:The Scottish Labour party is devolved and their MPs/party apparatus was primarily descended from the Blair years, where Scotland was such a total Labour stronghold that it was used to parachute in more right wing candidates and, although probably not to the extent some people claim (Brown our last Labour Prime Minister was Scottish) was taken for granted. This chafed Scotland for the reasons you listed- a bit like Canada, they'd partially developed a national identity of being the cooler more left wing neighbor to the country below them. Scottish Labour never stopped being the kind of centrist-careerist-Blairites that Corbyn represents a break from, which left a hole for left wing voters. Enter the SNP. that's super clear, thanks!
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Jun 11, 2017 13:38
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Phobophilia posted:So, uh, what happens next? Corbyn isn't PM, but May had her legs cut off and has to be propped up by some NI weirdos. The voter bases of both the Tories and Labour are split on Brexit, so neither party can come out against it without losing a huge chunk of their supporters. It's still supported by like 50% of the population, so it would be hard to turn a general election into an EU referendum without a big reshaping of who supports which party, and I don't think anyone wants to risk that. There's also the fact that the Lib Dems tried to be the remain party in this GE and it didn't work. Aiming for a brexit that is satisfying to most of the anti-EU crowd without tanking the entire economy seems to be the most viable option at the moment. I don't know how many people still buy into the blue sky bullshit that the leave campaign was selling - it would be interesting to see how the support for it breaks down at the moment, in regards to how many people want to leave because it's a good idea vs how many want to leave because we should respect the wishes of the people who wanted to leave.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:39
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Guavanaut posted:This sounds like a Sunday Sport headline. Everything in the Sunday sport is true. Speaking of, bad news for Boris' leadership ambitions: 
I would blow Dane Cook fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 13:39
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Baron Corbyn posted:over 55% of the country don't want to leave the UK, Nicola Sturgeon insisted there would be an IndyRef 2, pushing voters away from the SNP towards the unionist parties. She also said that ScotLab would go along with a second referendum making the Tories the only choice for people who really care about the union. The run up to this election has really done a lot to show up Sturgeon as not being the savvy political operator people think she is. According to Ashcroft's post-election poll, 79% of 2015 SNP voters stayed with the party. 11% went Labour. 6% went Tory. Margins of errors from small cross-samples and blah blah accepted - that churn doesn't result in the loss of 21 seats. Very tactical voting took place in Moray, Angus, and the Borders. But I'd put down the SNP losses (and those many close calls) in other seats to a lack of turnout amongst 2015 SNP voters. What reason did people have to vote SNP this election really? In 2015 there was a massive move against the fossilised New Labour apparatus up here, clearing out dozens of useless MPs who'd never bothered to be part of their constituencies. 2015 was a tsunami of a statement that would be difficult to carry on at all, but what were the SNP offering to retain that support.... very little. This time many people are still ambivalent to ScotLab, who are still broadly poo poo and stand for nothing, but enthusiasm for Corbyn will be strong in old socialist strongholds and will have carried them across the line in places like Rutherglen. If Jam-Stalin campaigns in Scotland during the upcoming October election for SNP voters to lend him their votes to be part of a real revolutionary goverment, then they will do very well I think, flipping many of the tory gains to Labour, and further cutting into the SNP seat count unless they find a lever to retain and turn out the 2015 voters en-mass. Personally I'm torn, I want to support Corbyn, but I voted SNP because our local labour candidate has no ideology. He is blairbot windcock with no real opinions other than opposition to the SNP on unionist grounds. Ideally I'd join the party, but not this CLP until it gets momentum'ed into something better.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:39
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