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AndyElusive posted:I really liked the design of the Ice Warrior Queen. Like someone else said, it's really nice that they didn't look at the brief of 'female Ice Warrior' and go sexy, she very much is a female Ice Warrior. The dreadlocks give her sort of a Predator look, but it's not leaning too much there either.
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Jun 11, 2017 07:51
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Ice Queen Versus the Torchwood Cyberwoman.
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Jun 11, 2017 08:01
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It might have been a little less obvious if they'd had their PoC soldier have ancestors in India rather than Africa. The empire must have imported a fair number of non-whites over the years. Any busy port will eventually have sailors from all over the world visiting the local prostitutes. Nations have diplomats, managers and merchants stationed overseas, mixing with the locals, their servants mixing with the local servant caste. poo poo happens. It makes perfect sense that a big port city like London would have much higher diversity than Britain in general. And historical Doctor Who episodes are more likely to be set in London than in Leeds or Whitby. I don't remember if Robots of Sherwood had any non-white people? That's a setting where a bunch of PoC would be harder to explain.
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Jun 11, 2017 09:12
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The British army had regiments out of the west indies that were, effectively, all black. They had started as slave regiments, but after abolition they were volunteers and part of the regular british army. That was somewhat unusual. The dominions had their own armies and the colonies sometimes had some version of a militia. The black soldiers couldn't be officers and were paid less. Dunno about individual black enlisted men in the rest of the army, though.
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Jun 11, 2017 10:32
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The Empire was all over Africa too, so it made sense to me. I wasn't crazy about the opening scene of them invading NASA, that just seemed a little too 'wacky'.
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Jun 11, 2017 10:38
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If Othello could believably be a Venetian general in Shakespeare's time, I'm sure there could have been a common black soldier in Victorian England.The_Doctor posted:The Empire was all over Africa too, so it made sense to me. Yeah, that had me slightly worried. I think I'm just sick of the pompous bullshit in Doctor Who at this point. Luckily, the episode itself was much more low key.
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Jun 11, 2017 10:45
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Yeah the NASA bit was a low point but they quickly tossed that aside for a much more fun story. They could have even left the GOD SAVE THE QUEEN bit in at the beginning but just had it be a mystery NASA were befuddled by rather than the Doctor being present and that being the trigger for their investigation. Kinda like how the 4th Doctor wrote,"THIS IS A FAKE!" on all Leonardo's Mona Lisas and just kinda shrugs when Romana points out that at some point in the future SOMEBODY is gonna see that 
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Jun 11, 2017 10:51
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The first bit with NASA was very like (and, knowing Gatiss, probably a reference to) the 60s film of First Men in the Moon where American astronauts land on the moon and find an old victorian union jack. Really didn't need the Doctor & co. there though.
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Jun 11, 2017 11:26
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Matt Lucas is nailing it this season. Makes me pine for the ever-so-brief idea of Frank Skinner being a companion.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:26
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Wanna see Nardole and Missy just chilling on the Tardis one day just swapping stories, Nardole of the stuff that she was in the Vault for and her embarrassing stories of the Doctor's youth. Not friends, just completely neutral toward one another. 
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Jun 11, 2017 12:28
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Astroman posted:Well they were progressive enough to have a black soldier, so they weren't all bad! There's a fairly famous painting (of which - despite it's fame - I can't remember the title or the artist  ) of a group of people in England hearing the news of Napoleon's defeat, one of whom is a black man in the uniform of the Foot Guards (one of the most prestigious infantry regiments in the British army at that time). It was very uncommon, but not unheard of.EDIT: I checked it out and it was Sir David Wilkie's painting of the Chelsea Pensioners receiving word of Napoleon's defeat: 
Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 12:33
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Alan Cumming reveals that RTD wanted him to play the Doctor but he said no because he didn't want to have to go to Cardiff.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:43
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BioEnchanted posted:Wanna see Nardole and Missy just chilling on the Tardis one day just swapping stories, Nardole of the stuff that she was in the Vault for and her embarrassing stories of the Doctor's youth. Not friends, just completely neutral toward one another. Nardole and Missy being on the Tardis together gives us infinite Big Finish possibilities!
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Jun 11, 2017 12:46
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I think the best way to sell the "Can Missy be redeemed" thing before the inevitable conclusion, would be to have her as a temp companion for a few episodes before her betrayal - and have her behave. The audience would spend the first two episodes waiting for the shoe to drop, start second-guessing themselves when it doesn't, then be satisfied when it finally does in the third episodes conclusion leading into the primary Missy story of the season.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:51
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all-Rush mixtape posted:It's the problem any fictional work not explicitly about race has if it takes place before, oh, 1970. You want to be accurate for the time, but you can't exactly tell casting 'whites only'. Why not? Are there diversity quotas for BBC historical programs now? Is it just with British historical representation? I can't remember, but does anyone recall if any of Ashildr's fellow Vikings were black? I just don't understand how it's racism to portray actual, real historical racism. It's denying lovely history to protect modern feelings and it does a disservice to kids who will watch and think everything in the past was OK. On the other hand if it's researched and legit, good on them. I did spend some time looking, and there isn't a lot about black soldiers in the Victorian Army--in fact there's nothing I can find. There's stuff about all black overseas native units, black soldiers in the American Revolution on both sides, WWI, WWII, and the Napoleonic War (with one cryptic sentence about how blacks served alongside whites in the regular army until the mid 19th century). Nothing about the Victorian era, which I would kneejerk suspect was more racist but I'd be interested in knowing more.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:56
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Wheat Loaf posted:Alan Cumming reveals that RTD wanted him to play the Doctor but he said no because he didn't want to have to go to Cardiff. Which is completely understandable as Cardiff is a hole. BioEnchanted posted:Wanna see Nardole and Missy just chilling on the Tardis one day just swapping stories, Nardole of the stuff that she was in the Vault for and her embarrassing stories of the Doctor's youth. Not friends, just completely neutral toward one another. Well, we don't know that they made it straight to Mars, there's plenty of room there for BF to run some Missy/Nardole audios!
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Jun 11, 2017 12:56
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Plavski posted:Matt Lucas is nailing it this season. Makes me pine for the ever-so-brief idea of Frank Skinner being a companion. Yeah Nardole has been such a great character. He just hits the perfect balance to be entertaining without crossing over into annoying like his archetype could easily do.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:58
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I really enjoyed this episode, especially after that loving pointless trilogy. It wasn't the greatest episode of Doctor Who ever by a long mile, but it was at least great fun.BioEnchanted posted:I think the best way to sell the "Can Missy be redeemed" thing before the inevitable conclusion, would be to have her as a temp companion for a few episodes before her betrayal - and have her behave. The audience would spend the first two episodes waiting for the shoe to drop, start second-guessing themselves when it doesn't, then be satisfied when it finally does in the third episodes conclusion leading into the primary Missy story of the season. We all know she's going to stick the knife in and run at some point, the fun part is watching Missy and trying to figure out if she's up to something already or just biding her time  .
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Jun 11, 2017 13:03
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Calling it - Missy has totally reformed and The Doctor will regenerate into John Simm's Master by mixing their Time Lord genetics somehow. This is a stupid idea
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Jun 11, 2017 13:05
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Thinking about it, it really felt like a classic Who story, which is no bad thing. I can definitely see that being a Pertwee story. Bit more back and forth amongst the soldiers/Ice Warriors, capture, escape, etc.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:07
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I believe that the British Empire troops definitely had East African troops back then but certainly not integrated into mainline regiments like that one black soldier was. The Romans used North African auxiliaries though, so the presence of a black legionary makes more sense. Quite often the extras that the BBC use don't seem to fit the period they are supposed to be appearing in, Robin Hood definitely had this problem too. Many of the people they use look like they have stepped off the Eastenders set.
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Jun 11, 2017 13:37
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Plavski posted:Matt Lucas is nailing it this season. Makes me pine for the ever-so-brief idea of Frank Skinner being a companion. This is the first season I'm not watching with my family (mostly my dad, admittedly), and the thing that's made me the saddest about that is knowing that it's one of the first times my mom's been interested, and it's entirely because of Matt Lucas. ...acrually, thinking about it, there's more to be sad I'll miss coming. My dad is gonna love the Mondasian Cybermen, and John Simm's Master is one of the few antagonists my sister knew and liked.
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Jun 11, 2017 15:39
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Sad King Billy posted:I believe that the British Empire troops definitely had East African troops back then but certainly not integrated into mainline regiments like that one black soldier was. Good,
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Jun 11, 2017 15:57
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DoctorWhat posted:Good, Not really.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:26
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Complaining about "historical accuracy" w/r/t there being "too many people of color" in a show about time-travel and psychic powers is so inane as to beggar belief.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:46
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No it isn't. The idea is that the fantastical elements are easily distinguishable from the realistic ones, so as we can more easily spot what's supposed to be there and what isn't. I spent the entire episode expecting the other shoe to drop about that guy but he was just... an ordinary soldier? Who was black? It worked with my expectations, based on what I know about the time period, to set up something that the episode wasn't actually going to do. I seem to remember you using this same logic about the moon egg and it was just as silly then.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:52
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Dabir posted:No it isn't. The idea is that the fantastical elements are easily distinguishable from the realistic ones, so as we can more easily spot what's supposed to be there and what isn't. I spent the entire episode expecting the other shoe to drop about that guy but he was just... an ordinary soldier? Who was black? It worked with my expectations, based on what I know about the time period, to set up something that the episode wasn't actually going to do. I think it's pretty justified in this season, though. Episode three took time to let Bill question the presence of black people in Victorian England and had the Doctor explain: "History's a whitewash." It could very well have been setup for some sort of time traveller plot twist, but if your pet theory got you distracted, that's not the episode's fault. 
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Jun 11, 2017 17:00
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DoctorWhat posted:Complaining about "historical accuracy" w/r/t there being "too many people of color" in a show about time-travel and psychic powers is so inane as to beggar belief. Your belief is easily beggared it would seem. The series should not be afraid to show that the world was not a good place back then, it isn't a good place now and probably won't ever be since history seems to be cyclical. I'm generally annoyed by the shows glib treatment of history, Gatiss himself portrayed Churchill as a naughty schoolboy when in fact he was a deeply flawed person. If only the show could be a little braver and not be afraid to tear down monuments.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:05
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And More posted:I think it's pretty justified in this season, though. Episode three took time to let Bill question the presence of black people in Victorian England and had the Doctor explain: "History's a whitewash." It could very well have been setup for some sort of time traveller plot twist, but if your pet theory got you distracted, that's not the episode's fault. There most certainly were people from many places in Victorian England, especially the port cities.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:07
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Did everybody miss this post? It was a good post.Wheat Loaf posted:
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Jun 11, 2017 17:15
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Sad King Billy posted:Your belief is easily beggared it would seem. What you want is Black Mirror.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:15
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I was just expecting some one to be really racist at him once or twice. Like that's what helped sell the giant fish episode. We got the main dude being very sexist so I guess it balances out
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Jun 11, 2017 17:26
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Just saw the brief clip about Alpha Centauri. Peter Capaldi said "Thats a good thing about this show, it's fun!" I seemed to have forgotten that in the midst of discussing anachronistic black soldiers.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:32
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My dad was more confused by breathable air on Mars.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:43
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all-Rush mixtape posted:My dad was more confused by breathable air on Mars. They explained that by a vague line about 'ancient martian machinery making an atmosphere underground'.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:51
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all-Rush mixtape posted:My dad was more confused by breathable air on Mars. *Under Mars. Hope that clears things up.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ig5VDALVo In which Bill makes a new friend
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Jun 11, 2017 19:09
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Dabir posted:No it isn't. The idea is that the fantastical elements are easily distinguishable from the realistic ones, so as we can more easily spot what's supposed to be there and what isn't. I spent the entire episode expecting the other shoe to drop about that guy but he was just... an ordinary soldier? Who was black? It worked with my expectations, based on what I know about the time period, to set up something that the episode wasn't actually going to do. They even played with it in a cheeky way, when the white soldier brought the sergeant a drink and the black soldier was like "What about me?" and you expect it to be a race thing, but oh haha no, it's because the sergeant outranks him lol there was no discrimination in history!  Much better than pesky social commentary I guess.
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Jun 11, 2017 19:34
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I like how adding a single black soldier - and did they even make reference to his race? - has made an internet thread have a discussion about race by drawing into relief how segregated the past was. Nobody would have said poo poo or even thought for a second about these questions had it just been an all-white cast. It's like that scene in the paint factory in Invisible Man.  Good ol' Doctor Who
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Jun 11, 2017 19:54
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Jerusalem posted:I love that little hearing trumpet on the Victorian-era spacesuit. Same. Really loved that spacesuit.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:00
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