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Knight Boat posted:He can't lie with the lasso around him. He's a god, who knows what he can do? He can shoot mind visions through the lasso.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:57
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Phylodox posted:He's a god, who knows what he can do? He can shoot mind visions through the lasso. He can't lie when bound by the lasso. No one can. This is one of the few certainties in Wonder Woman canon through each and every interpretation and reboot.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:01
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Knight Boat posted:He can't lie with the lasso around him. To not mention that by that point the troops were effectively being forced to continue the war efforts by Ludendorff and Poison. With both of them gone, they have no reason to still going against the armistice.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:02
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Phylodox posted:The film really doesn't play it this way, though. Once Aries is gone, the German troops do an instant, complete 180°. There's no trepidation or dawning realization, it's just instant brotherhood. Yeah, Aries says he's not mind-controlling anyone, but he's very obviously got a vested interest in convincing Diana of that, and the events immediately following his death seem very strongly to imply that he was lying. So, either the film muddles its themes at the very end, or does a really poor job of conveying what it meant to. Either way, a good movie was let down by a kind of disappointing, muddled ending. It's still a good movie, it's just not perfect, but no movie is. It's just a matter of reading the outcome on a literal or thematic level I suppose. I've mentioned this before, but I thought it's pretty clear the reason the German soldier and the Native American dude hugged it out at the end was because they both had just seen some batshit insane, fire and brimstone poo poo with actual gods battling out before them. They were on death's doorstep. Diana saved them all, and they survived. At that point they weren't a German soldier, or a merc for hire in the midst of a war anymore. They were just mere mortals, alive and well. What else can you do but open your arms to another human being in that kind of situation? It's sending this message that in the end, love and compassion conquers war and violence. Phylodox posted:He's a god, who knows what he can do? He can shoot mind visions through the lasso. The lasso is divine in nature, and is used by a culture created by the gods. The film firmly establishes the rules of what the lasso does, and never implies that gods are unaffected by its power.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:07
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teagone posted:I've mentioned this before, but I thought it's pretty clear the reason the German soldier and the Native American dude hugged it out at the end was because they both had just seen some batshit insane, fire and brimstone poo poo with actual gods battling out before them. They were on death's doorstep. Diana saved them all, and they survived. At that point they weren't a German soldier, or a merc for hire in the midst of a war anymore. They were just mere mortals, alive and well. What else can you do but open your arms to another human being in that kind of situation? It's sending this message that in the end, love and compassion conquers war and violence. I agree, though I feel like the movie could have illustrated this more clearly. Unless I'm misremembering, we don't really get a good picture of how the ordinary soldiers experience the fight while it's going on. It's one of the things that puts it a step down for me from Snyder's Superman movies, or the most recent American Godzilla. A lot of the fight seems to take place in this grey zone, like the fight at the end of the most recent Fantastic Four.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:23
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Sir Kodiak posted:I agree, though I feel like the movie could have illustrated this more clearly. Unless I'm misremembering, we don't really get a good picture of how the ordinary soldiers experience the fight while it's going on. Yeah, I'm with the notion that the film could have maybe shown some of the emotions one or two German soldiers were going through during the ending to further illustrate the point. Not having that doesn't make the message any weaker or unclear to me, but I understand what it could have added.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:30
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Just re-watched the Aries lasso scene. He never actually denies mind controlling anyone. He just says he doesn't start the wars. Plus, there's plenty of weasel room there, anyways. He could have said, "I've never made anyone do anything they didn't want to do" which, to him, someone who believes humans only crave destruction, would be subjectively true. He's just telling them to do what he thinks they'd want to do, anyways.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:40
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SleepCousinDeath posted:he gets one in the beginning of Batman V Superman. damnit, where? I don't remember that
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Jun 11, 2017 22:24
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mastershakeman posted:damnit, where? I don't remember that As child Bruce, surrounded by bats being lifted into the light after falling down into the cave during his parent's funeral. His dream.
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Jun 11, 2017 23:02
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mastershakeman posted:damnit, where? I don't remember that 
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Jun 11, 2017 23:02
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Schwarzwald posted:Yes. While Wonder Woman was busy killing Ares, Steve and buddies stopped the chemical attack that threatened to prevent the armistice. Pretending that this movies does not try to have it both ways, with all the evidence people have pointed out, is just asinine. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 11, 2017 23:32
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Drifter posted:As child Bruce, surrounded by bats being lifted into the light after falling down into the cave during his parent's funeral. His dream. dangit. oh well I guess everyone gets to be Christ
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Jun 12, 2017 00:17
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mastershakeman posted:Since Ww got a floating Christ pose just like Superman, I'm really hoping Aquaman, flash and cyborg all get similar shots and Batman's the only guy without one. Batman is Paul. He even gets a vision on the road to Damascus. He fucks it up though.
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Jun 12, 2017 00:32
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khwarezm posted:Well, it varied by country. In Germany and of course Russia the entire political system was overturned and new ones brought in, Germany had full universal suffrage under the Weimar Republic but I'm sure we're all aware that Liberal democracy did not last in Germany and was heavily associated with horrible instability through the twenties. Many big players prior and during the war became very important in politics, for example Paul von Hindenburg, president before Hitler, was probably the most famous and highly regarded general in the country and pretty much controlled the government at by the end of the war. I really wonder how Germany turned out in the DCEU given that Luddendorf kills Hidenburg and the rest of the high command in this movie, and of course he dies as well. 57 million weekend domestic. If my math is right that's only a 45.6% drop. Total is 205 million domestic. Foreign 230 million. Total 435 million http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=wonderwoman.htm It just passed First Avenger, Ant Man and Thor for domestic hauls. It still hasn't released in Germany, Spain or Japan. Combined population 252 million. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 00:50
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Charlz Guybon posted:57 million weekend domestic. If my math is right that's only a 45.7% drop. Read an article earlier that said BvS, MoS, and Suicide Squad saw drops in the high 50s to low 60s for the second weekend. Wonder Woman only having a 45% drop is insane. Movie's got legs, hope to see its box office success go even further. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 00:55
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teagone posted:Read an article earlier that said BvS, MoS, and Suicide Squad saw drops in the high 50s to low 60s for the second weekend. Wonder Woman only having a 45% drop is insane. Movie's got legs, hope to see its box office success go even further. MOS had a 45% drop for its second week. BvS had a 69%. Don't care what SS had. Hopefully worse.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:22
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Drifter posted:MOS had a 45% drop for its second week. Second weekend box office I think was what was being measured, where MoS had a 65% drop http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=superman2012.htm [edit] I guess all DCEU films had drops in the 60s, not sure where I read 50s. [edit] Oh wait, it was the Deadline article saying it's typical for an MCU movie to drop to 50% in its second weekend. This article: http://deadline.com/2017/06/wonder-woman-whipping-tom-cruise-mummy-weekend-box-office-1202111169/ teagone fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 02:37
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hardly. Jenkins is following in Snyder's footsteps, but never reaches the level of 300. The action is often uninteresting and awkward, and it's rather understandable because because Jenkins is not an action director. Jenkins didn't direct the action in this movie. Don't you know how major blockbusters are made? This film had the same 2nd unit director and stunt coordinator as Mos, BvS, and Justice League.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:07
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teagone posted:Second weekend box office I think was what was being measured, where MoS had a 65% drop http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=superman2012.htm Yeah word of mouth and so-so reviews really killed the buzz on MoS and BvS, they had HUGE openings but then the audience went "Nah" and after about a month their ticket sales had pretty much dried up completely. Marvel films like Guardians of the Galaxy had a much softer opening but audiences kept turning up so the box office just kept chugging along and it caught up to BvS at about the 3 month mark:  If you graph out a film's box office over time it usually forms a nice gradual curve but BvS and MoS both look like a goddamned boomerang. (Note that 2nd week drop stats don't mean a lot out of context. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 had a 72% second week drop but still made $1.3 billion worldwide. The Jack Black comedy Gulliver's Travels actually had a 47% second week increase but still bombed horribly and was a large factor in Black's acting career stalling.)
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Jun 12, 2017 03:20
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Wandle Cax posted:Jenkins didn't direct the action in this movie. Don't you know how major blockbusters are made? This film had the same 2nd unit director and stunt coordinator as Mos, BvS, and Justice League. Not all films are done like this. Perhaps Jenkins wasn't there during the shoot, but she would've surely planned it out and made sure it was her vision. Nolan, however, shoots everything. Action. Inserts. That's why he owns. I think Tarantino is another one.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:25
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CelticPredator posted:Not all films are done like this. Perhaps Jenkins wasn't there during the shoot, but she would've surely planned it out and made sure it was her vision. Yeah i'm sure she had an input but I mean she literally would not have staged choreographed and directed the action scenes, which I think were meant to ape the style in the previous films while giving WW her own unique fighting style. She wasn't brought in for her action expertise though, which is par for the course. She did a great job with the film and the action team did a great job with the action scenes. I thought the slow-mo was very well used, not overplayed and the fights were filmed in a very dynamic and interesting way. Apart from the final fight which was not that interesting, much like the final fight in BvS which it is very similar to
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Jun 12, 2017 03:59
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teagone posted:Yeah, I'm with the notion that the film could have maybe shown some of the emotions one or two German soldiers were going through during the ending to further illustrate the point. Not having that doesn't make the message any weaker or unclear to me, but I understand what it could have added. I'm not sure. I kind of like the realization that the faceless mooks were young dudes.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:14
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Open Marriage Night posted:I'm not sure. I kind of like the realization that the faceless mooks were young dudes. It's certainly way better than the usual comicbook ending where the faceless mooks are sucked back through a wormhole, or the mothership explodes so they just stop attacking and fall down, or the hero just steps over their corpses and keeps walking.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:33
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Maybe Ares is the god of lies, lying about being a god of truth.
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Jun 12, 2017 05:16
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https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/874034832430424065
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Jun 12, 2017 05:43
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I just remembered that one rumor from way back that Amazons were descended from Kryptonians. Haha, good times.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:26
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teagone posted:I just remembered that one rumor from way back that Amazons were descended from Kryptonians. Haha, good times. Yeah, based around that empty stasis pod in the Kryptonian ship Clark found under the ice
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Jun 12, 2017 07:36
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah, based around that empty stasis pod in the Kryptonian ship Clark found under the ice The tie in comic from MOS revealed that pod to be Kara's (Supergirl) Of course, that idea is most likely dead now.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:40
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Wandle Cax posted:Jenkins didn't direct the action in this movie. Don't you know how major blockbusters are made? This film had the same 2nd unit director and stunt coordinator as Mos, BvS, and Justice League. So you're saying it just has worse action, and Jenkins was a non-factor in it?
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Jun 12, 2017 07:42
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I don't get that. We've seen behind the scenes of Snyder directing the action scenes in MoS and BvS. Why would Jenkins, as also a director, not direct those herself?
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Jun 12, 2017 08:15
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Snyder has a affinity for action. Most directors are more interested in everything but. Action is usually done by a second unit, usually at the same time director works on dialog scenes.
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Jun 12, 2017 08:28
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Film was fine I guess but had that butt-ugly browny colourless look that DC films seem to love.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:01
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Drifter posted:I don't get that. We've seen behind the scenes of Snyder directing the action scenes in MoS and BvS. Why would Jenkins, as also a director, not direct those herself? It's just not her area of expertise. She's there for the story, the characters the overall tone and vision of the film etc. I imagine the studios have requirements for the amount and style of action they want in the film. These films cost hundreds of millions and they want the action done right so they have experts in that area handle the action while the actual filmmaker handles the heart and soul of the picture. It's why directors with no history of action films are brought in to direct these tentpoles see also the director of Jurassic World, Winter Soldier, Thor 3 etc. Of course if the director is an action person then yeah they may direct it mostly themselves but I guess the 2nd unit would still do a lot of it due to time constraints
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Jun 12, 2017 10:11
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Patty Jenkins directed the film, is credited as director and as such it is safe to assume she directed the action scenes. Powerfully interesting that no one was accusing David Ayer of not directing parts of Suicide Squad. This is a hosed up post TBH. To say something "is not her area of expertise" feels like an attempt to discredit Jenkins' role, giving the credit to a man. Besides, she's 2 films in, what the gently caress do we know about her "area of expertise"? well why not fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 10:33
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Wandle Cax posted:It's just not her area of expertise. She's there for the story, the characters the overall tone and vision of the film etc. Here's some photos of Patty Jenkins directing some of the key action scenes from the movie   
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Jun 12, 2017 10:33
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If anything it's a credit to how close she can get to Snyder's action sequences.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:37
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You guys really don't know what the second unit does in films? Especially for big budget films? It's rare for directors to personally direct action scenes. It's not even a slight against the filmmakers. I'd like to hope Jenkins was there filming it, but if she didn't it's not like I think the film is lesser or she's a lesser filmmaker for it. This poo poo takes a lot of time. And the 3 weeks it takes to shoot the big stunt scene could be used to also shoot the big romance scene. Saves time and money. But it's not like she just told other people to go off and do whatever they wanted. They plan it out extensively so it's still the directors vision. And yeah she was probably there to film the big character moments and not so much the stunt work and big action beats. You need the director there for a death of a main character, not so much for a guy getting kicked out of the window. (Although that'd be fun as hell to film)
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Jun 12, 2017 10:43
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Directors direct everyone, including the second unit directors. They're still responsible for everything filmed, ultimately.
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Jun 12, 2017 10:46
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CelticPredator posted:And yeah she was probably there to film the big character moments and not so much the stunt work and big action beats. You need the director there for a death of a main character, not so much for a guy getting kicked out of the window. (Although that'd be fun as hell to film) Here's some behind the scene footage of Patty Jenkins filming the greenscreen wire stunt work! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNs85I75p7A&t=489s I think it's the scene where Diana takes out the sniper in the church tower but I'm not 100% certain. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 10:55
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well why not posted:Patty Jenkins directed the film, is credited as director and as such it is safe to assume she directed the action scenes. Oh for goodness sake. This is not a controversial statement and is common practice on major films. I was originally replying to someone blaming the director for what they thought were poor action scenes. I think Jenkins did a fantastic job with the film. But no, a director known for small scale drama films was not chosen for her expertise in fight choreography and action scenes for this $200 whatever million film!
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Jun 12, 2017 11:12
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