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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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DeadButDelicious posted:gently caress me this is horrible news to wake up to. Those poor people. I watched it progress via the Guardian and a YouTube feed at work. Went from "this is bad but interesting" to "this is hosed" to "this is bloody tragic" to an angry "when does the manhunt for the fuckheads responsible start?".
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Jun 14, 2017 09:15
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ronya posted:if it turns out that some idiot deliberately started a fire, it is quite likely this will remove liability from the builder, even if said builder used gasoline and candle wax to line the walls They'd still be done in for building violations, though. Not quite a murder charge, but either way it might get some contractors to look more closely at this sort of stuff.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:15
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Zephro posted:When I lived in a tower block in Hong Kong my block, and all the various ones my friends lived in all over town, had two separate staircases so that either or both could be used in a fire, and both staircases were built from concrete with tiled walls and kept totally free from junk so that nothing there could catch fire. There was a central fire alarm system that was tested I think monthly? And the flats all had big heavy front doors that I assume were pretty fire resistant. I live in HK now and have a similar arrangement. Also buildings here usually have a firebreak floor somewhere in the middle so that at most half the building will be affected. God this is so horrible.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:16
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Miftan posted:They'd still be done in for building violations, though. Not quite a murder charge, but either way it might get some contractors to look more closely at this sort of stuff. yup. but statutory fines are quite different from manslaughter charges, as penalties go
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Jun 14, 2017 09:17
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I know a guy that lived in northern China for 3 years and he had a rope and carabiner arrangement so he could rappel from his 11th storey death trap apartment in case of emergency.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:18
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I was commenting to a colleague at work today that if I ever lived in a high rise again I'd have a 200ft (or however long I needed) rope ladder delivered to my place of residence. It might take up a ton of room and be pointless but I'd be fine with that outcome.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:20
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Corrode posted:I reckon you're at Ovo because when I worked there they were rolling out smart meters disastrously and then it turned out people were switching and their smart meter which had taken six months to get installed didn't work as intended any more. Also they kept hooking up meters in places where they couldn't get signal, then relying on rolling out a signal-booster which didn't yet exist to make the whole thing usable. Bingo. But yeah there were some dumb issues when it first started because turns out using third parties to install the smart meters is a stupid idea because they just pass the buck onto the supplier. Learned that lesson though!
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Jun 14, 2017 09:21
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Gbs has reached the reasonable and obvious conclusion that this was caused by a suicide bomber's vest going off prematurely while being built.
communism bitch fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 09:21
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ronya posted:yup. but statutory fines are quite different from manslaughter charges, as penalties go I'm sure we could find a judge who would give them whatever you want the British equivalent of accessory to murder is.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:22
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Miftan posted:I'm sure we could find a judge who would give them whatever you want the British equivalent of accessory to murder is. that was the point of my remark: IANAL, but from what little I know this is not the way common law jurisprudence generally thinks about causation
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Jun 14, 2017 09:23
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ronya posted:if it turns out that some idiot deliberately started a fire, it is quite likely this will remove liability from the builder, even if said builder used gasoline and candle wax to line the walls This is almost certainly wrong. The building should have been designed with adequate safeguards for any reasonably foreseeable event, and (for example) some scrote setting fire to a bunch of bins is definitely foreseeable. There are entire specialisms in engineering (and I assume this extends to buildings of this kind in civil engineering) about design failure modes effects analysis (DFMEA) and the process is excruciatingly detailed and typically leaves no component or aspect untouched. I have literally sat in DFMEA meetings for an entire working day, breaking only for twenty minutes at lunch and scrutinising so much as a single 4mm bolt shearing.(Hoping Bozza turns up to back me up on this since I think hes still in a reasonably similar field). That this building and/or renovations passed its regulatory obligations and then burnt down indicates one of several things: 1) The compliance process is at fault 2) The building was not modified in compliance with the plan. 3) Both.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:23
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Beefeater1980 posted:I live in HK now and have a similar arrangement. Also buildings here usually have a firebreak floor somewhere in the middle so that at most half the building will be affected. How does the top half of the building manage if the bottom half burns down?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:25
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OwlFancier posted:How does the top half of the building manage if the bottom half burns down? skyhooks, natch
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Jun 14, 2017 09:26
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BBC News just showed a school nearby which has been clad in the same material as the tower block. This is horrible.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:28
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OwlFancier posted:How does the top half of the building manage if the bottom half burns down? You'll be fine as long as the tower isn't made of sand. Have you never played Minecraft? 
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Jun 14, 2017 09:29
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OwlFancier posted:How does the top half of the building manage if the bottom half burns down? Very carefully.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:29
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Seriously, unless you live in a high rise then get a rope ladder for £10, if you want to splash out then portable fire escape ladders for up to three story buildings are a thing for £50 if that. You want to be jumping out of the window going "but the landlord was supposed to do it!!" for the sake of £50?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:33
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Zero Gravitas posted:This is almost certainly wrong. The building should have been designed with adequate safeguards for any reasonably foreseeable event, and (for example) some scrote setting fire to a bunch of bins is definitely foreseeable. sounds reasonable. i concede to your superior knowledge
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Jun 14, 2017 09:34
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JBP posted:I know a guy that lived in northern China for 3 years and he had a rope and carabiner arrangement so he could rappel from his 11th storey death trap apartment in case of emergency.  It's not much use when the cladding is on fire though, and the slow speed makes it bad for hanging landlords. Also useless for everything: 
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Jun 14, 2017 09:37
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According to BBC World News just now the building were clad in different kind of materials. Some of it the same kind of colourful plastic looking plates as on the school right beside the building.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:38
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learnincurve posted:Seriously, unless you live in a high rise then get a rope ladder for £10, if you want to splash out then portable fire escape ladders for up to three story buildings are a thing for £50 if that. You want to be jumping out of the window going "but the landlord was supposed to do it!!" for the sake of £50? Kill your landlord and live in his house?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:39
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This sort of only one way out tragedy used to hit the States a lot last century which is why cities require more than one set of stairs in high rises, fire exits, fire doors, etc. Because if one set of stairs is taken out or is too crowded there'd at least be another. There isn't a dependence on stay-in-place 1-hour ratings either because it's always possible that the fire won't be contained to just one space, or the possibility of co2 poisoning. I sincerely expect Corbyn to push for new safety standards.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:40
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Why is "I'll take the flammable foam and aluminium cladding, please" even an option that companies produce?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:41
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learnincurve posted:Seriously, unless you live in a high rise then get a rope ladder for £10, if you want to splash out then portable fire escape ladders for up to three story buildings are a thing for £50 if that. You want to be jumping out of the window going "but the landlord was supposed to do it!!" for the sake of £50? Well now we know what started the Grenfell Tower fire, it was your hot takes. Next time you feel the urge to blame the victims of a disaster, do you think you could perhaps wait until they've been counted?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:41
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Happy Birthday Che Guevara, btw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_g23qi9hg
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Jun 14, 2017 09:42
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This is "bloke-down-the-pub" level knowledge but a mate of mine who's a builder in Australia reckons the problem with the aluminium cladding over there was that while the stuff easily passed fire-safety tests - you could hold a blowtorch against it for hours and nothing happened - if you got a large section of it hot enough it would deform and break the fireproof coating, at which point you've then got burning aluminium and all bets are off.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:42
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If I lived in one of the recent redevelopments proudly listed on that website I would be opening up lines of communication immediately
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Jun 14, 2017 09:42
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learnincurve posted:Seriously, unless you live in a high rise then get a rope ladder for £10, if you want to splash out then portable fire escape ladders for up to three story buildings are a thing for £50 if that. You want to be jumping out of the window going "but the landlord was supposed to do it!!" for the sake of £50? But how are people who can't even afford energy saving bulbs or 5p plastic bags supposed to stretch to this???
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Jun 14, 2017 09:43
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Thanks Ants posted:Why is "I'll take the flammable foam and aluminium cladding, please" even an option that companies produce?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:43
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Thanks Ants posted:Why is "I'll take the flammable foam and aluminium cladding, please" even an option that companies produce? Capitalism
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Jun 14, 2017 09:45
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Proper brutalism looks better than cladding anyway 
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Jun 14, 2017 09:45
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How the hell is it ok to have a fire safety sign that goes "You should be safe"?
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Jun 14, 2017 09:46
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goddamnedtwisto posted:This is "bloke-down-the-pub" level knowledge but a mate of mine who's a builder in Australia reckons the problem with the aluminium cladding over there was that while the stuff easily passed fire-safety tests - you could hold a blowtorch against it for hours and nothing happened - if you got a large section of it hot enough it would deform and break the fireproof coating, at which point you've then got burning aluminium and all bets are off. But it's Aluminium, how can it burn? - some old person in charge who doesn't understand physics
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Jun 14, 2017 09:46
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Heard two witnesses on Five Live saying they saw the fire spread through burning cladding.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:46
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Thanks Ants posted:Why is "I'll take the flammable foam and aluminium cladding, please" even an option that companies produce? Praseodymi posted:Kill your landlord and live in his house
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Jun 14, 2017 09:48
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Emma Dent Coad, the new Labour Kensington MP, is a motherfucking architecture historian specialising in social housing. She probably knows all this already, but type up an e-mail and send her all this suspicious, blatantly corrupt poo poo and watch those shitbirds get stomped.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:48
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Darth Walrus posted:Emma Dent Coad, the new Labour Kensington MP, is a motherfucking architecture historian specialising in social housing.  Talk about the right person in the right job at the right time. Do that.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:52
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Darth Walrus posted:Emma Dent Coad, the new Labour Kensington MP, is a motherfucking architecture historian specialising in social housing.  Fantasize a boot stomping on a landlord's face, forever.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:53
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Darth Walrus posted:Emma Dent Coad, the new Labour Kensington MP, is a motherfucking architecture historian specialising in social housing. Oh yes, I like this.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:54
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DancingShade posted:But it's Aluminium, how can it burn? - some old person in charge who doesn't understand physics Aluminium is quite reactive with oxygen. The reason it doesn't burn when you have your coke can in your hand is because it is covered in a thin film of aluminium oxide which does not burn. Strip away that layer with heat, and it'll happily react with all that oxygen.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:54
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