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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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J_RBG posted:Hey now let's just remember it's more efficient to have this kind of housing market with poor people dying than some kind of Corbynesque dystopia where for some reason people don't die Of course, because now that the tower's burnt down it can be replaced with another tower that is entirely designed for international rich clientele and has no social housing in it at all more rent from the same space, what could possibly be more efficient for the housing market
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Jun 14, 2017 18:29
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https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/875042127327178752 He should join the DUP.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:31
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Who could replace Farron? And how will this effect the coalition of chaos?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:31
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Brown Moses posted:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/875040919803879428 Ha!
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Jun 14, 2017 18:32
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Brown Moses posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/875042127327178752 Man now I feel super lovely for occasionally standing up for Farron because it turns out he was a bad christian after all.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:32
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Brown Moses posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/875042127327178752 loving hell.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:32
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Is he planning to go all in on gay sex being a sin then?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:32
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Saying now, tenner bets Jo Swinson Also, loving LAWL
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Jun 14, 2017 18:33
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kustomkarkommando posted:Who could replace Farron? And how will this effect the coalition of chaos? Whoever it is, I hope they don't jump into bed with the Tories. Refusing a coalition with them is one of the few decent things Farron's done. e: yay, jam tag!
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Jun 14, 2017 18:33
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SpaceCadetBob posted:BBC news live updates have a picto-graphic stating that the fire possibly started on the 4th residential floor, which would be the 8th floor overall in the building. That would be significant as 80' up should preclude most sorts of external fire sources. If it engulfed one apartment or more on the 8th and then if there wasn't enough of a fire break to keep it from moving to the cladding on the outside then maybe it spreads to that and then up and back inwards repeatedly? Like if when they renovated what if they removed some of the old fire break materials to install the new cladding? Or if they removed fire break material between floors for ducting for the new central heating system? Like I am imagining a scenario where they cut into the outward fire break and the floor to floor fire break so they can just attach ducting for the central heating mostly to the outside and then cover everything over with the new cladding. Maybe not enough room in the central column for the heating system ducting because the building was not built with central heating in mind?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:34
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Baron Corbyn posted:Is he planning to go all in on gay sex being a sin then?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:34
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So presumably timothy was telling naughty fibs during the campaign when he said that his views had changed on homosexuality and abortion. I dont think the big man upstairs will be awfully chuffed that sort of cynical opportunism.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:34
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Brown Moses posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/875042127327178752 So he's OK with supporting a party which doesn't represent his views at all, just as long as he doesn't have to lead it? What a loving hypocrite.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:35
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Like dunking on Tim Farron's faith is cool and good, and he does legit think homosexuality is a sin, but didn't he actually have a pretty progressive voting record?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:35
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SpaceCadetBob posted:BBC news live updates have a picto-graphic stating that the fire possibly started on the 4th residential floor, which would be the 8th floor overall in the building. That would be significant as 80' up should preclude most sorts of external fire sources. From earlier in the thread, it sounds like someone's fridge went bang (at least that's what someone there was saying), if that informs you any.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:35
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The narrative that the Tory manifesto was "too honest" is pretty hilarious. It wasn't honest in any way - it was uncosted and in many places clearly under-detailed. Even after the U-turn they never even gave us a ballpark figure on what the dementia tax cap would be. It was just a steaming pile of garbage with poorly thought out and mean ideas.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:36
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The Department of The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same would like to remind everyone about Ronan Point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point quote:Construction defects (failure to build as designed), had left unfilled gaps between floors and walls throughout, hidden only by skirting boards and ceiling paper, which left the building without fire separation (or acoustic separation) between flats. Tall blocks of flats in the UK are permitted relatively narrow staircases because the requirement for full fire separation between floors means that it is actually safer for people above the fire to stay in their flats rather than walk down the stairs. Without fire separation, all people above would need to escape, which would not be possible in the existing narrow staircases.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:36
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communism bitch posted:So presumably timothy was telling naughty fibs during the campaign when he said that his views had changed on homosexuality and abortion. I think god will understand when he hears the Lib Dems gained 4 seats.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:37
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Paul.Power posted:Whoever it is, I hope they don't jump into bed with the Tories. Refusing a coalition with them is one of the few decent things Farron's done. Wasn't his major opponent in the last contest from the more traditional centre-right wing of the party? Might not bode well
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Jun 14, 2017 18:37
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:Like dunking on Tim Farron's faith is cool and good, and he does legit think homosexuality is a sin, but didn't he actually have a pretty progressive voting record?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:37
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Trin Tragula posted:The Department of The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same would like to remind everyone about Ronan Point. See also early Adam Curtis work: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Adam_Curtis_-_The_Great_British_Housing_Disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5VorymiL4 There was also a Channel 4 series which this book accompanied, and Ronan Point was one of the episodes. The book is very good for someone with a casual interest. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Collapse-Why-Buildings-Fall-Down/dp/0752218174/
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Jun 14, 2017 18:38
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:Like dunking on Tim Farron's faith is cool and good, and he does legit think homosexuality is a sin, but didn't he actually have a pretty progressive voting record? Not really. He abstained a lot on LGBT issues and backed some really lovely amendments. Tended to follow the party whip on 3rd readings only, which is what shows up on TheyWorkForYou
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Jun 14, 2017 18:38
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mfcrocker posted:Not really. He abstained a lot on LGBT issues and backed some really lovely amendments. Tended to follow the party whip on 3rd readings only, which is what shows up on TheyWorkForYou On non-sexuality issues he was fairly standard Lib Demmy though. I guess there was just a series of strategic non-conversations around him which allowed him to get so high in the party.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:40
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"Having people ask me if I thought gay people were sinners was difficult. Now I'm no longer leader I still think gay people are sinners, but that won't matter because no-one will ask me any more."
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Jun 14, 2017 18:41
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Trin Tragula posted:The Department of The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same would like to remind everyone about Ronan Point. The Guardian has an article quoting that guy: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/disaster-waiting-to-happen-fire-expert-slams-uk-tower-blocks
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Jun 14, 2017 18:42
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mfcrocker posted:Not really. He abstained a lot on LGBT issues and backed some really lovely amendments. Tended to follow the party whip on 3rd readings only, which is what shows up on TheyWorkForYou
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Jun 14, 2017 18:42
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kustomkarkommando posted:Wasn't his major opponent in the last contest from the more traditional centre-right wing of the party? yeah, I worry whether this might not actually be about Tim going off to stop the chemicals turning the frogs gay but setting up an Orange Booker to provide support for a minority Tory government that doesn't repulse half of its own MPs.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:42
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baka kaba posted:Yeah I wasn't so much suggesting it as a solution that would have prevented this, I was more wondering if sprinklers would have helped at all when the exterior was on fire - would they slow things enough that the fire brigade could just douse the exterior without having to direct water into the rooms? Or would it make basically no difference at all with a fire of that scale trying to get in? If you could absolutely drench every room in the block you might prevent a fire taking hold, but even then the cladding might burn hot and long enough to simply dry everything out and then burn it up. And that's ignoring the fact that a sprinkler system can't possible dump that much water in all places at once. The important points so far are probably that a sprinkler system may have prevented the fire from spreading outside it's original location, but the more significant gently caress-up was covering the entire building in kindling and potentially boring big holes in the fire-breaks.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:48
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:If it engulfed one apartment or more on the 8th and then if there wasn't enough of a fire break to keep it from moving to the cladding on the outside then maybe it spreads to that and then up and back inwards repeatedly? Like if when they renovated what if they removed some of the old fire break materials to install the new cladding? Or if they removed fire break material between floors for ducting for the new central heating system? This is the big question. If the fire did penetrate the building from the exterior siding repeatedly, then the line of questions would go like this. 1. Is the cladding material a huge fire risk to buildings? Did it undergo flame spread testing? Was it listed for fire retardant properties? Why the gently caress is it on the market if not. 2. If the material is legit, was it installed incorrectly? Does it need to have fire gaps or baffles at certain horizontal or vertical distances? If it wasn't installed correctly then there is negligence. OTOH, if the exterior fire was kept separated from the interior fire, then the question is how did the fire hop floors. (my personal assumption is that even with 1 hour separations on the floor, you can pretty much assume the whole floor is toast if the Fire service doesn't respond quickly enough). Did the fire travel through a vertical chase that we old and just unnoticed during recent renovations, or was a new vertical chase created during renovations and not properly fire stopped. The former could potential be coughed up to ignorance, but the second would be direct negligence. SpaceCadetBob fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 18:50
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namesake posted:For a kindly pacifist Corbyn is really good at putting his rivals in the ground. i said this a year ago after danzicuck. i think corbyn himself is a nice guy, he just has an absolute bastard on his staff. so, conspiracy theory time. the point at which the corbyn campaign stopped pathetically floundering and started making sudden and utterly unexpected gains was not the manifesto was published, but when the manifesto was leaked. this, which most people assumed was done by someone trying to sabotage corbyn, had a huge impact: first, it was adequately radical that it made the news: policies that were extreme one day were being discussed the next, even if it was in a "what an extreme idea!" context. second, it saved corbyn an embarrassing, in-fight laden conference on these radical proposals: he would have had to spend tons of his (virtually nonexistent) political capital to get these things passed: instead, they had to be passed, they had defacto been promised. people talked about them there had been commitariat think pieces digesting them, they were literally front page news. that is a really, really good leak. that's the political equivalent of an ex-girlfriend telling everyone you've got a gigantic cock- sure, it's embarrassing for a moment, but once that dust clears- is it all that bad?
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Jun 14, 2017 18:51
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Baron Corbyn posted:yeah, I worry whether this might not actually be about Tim going off to stop the chemicals turning the frogs gay but setting up an Orange Booker to provide support for a minority Tory government that doesn't repulse half of its own MPs. No. Vince is the preferred Liberal chief in any progressive alliance. He is about as left wing as any lib dem can get. He also has a massive amount of financial experience, and was called Jeremiah for his prediction of the financial crash. Collateral fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 18:52
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CoolCab posted:i said this a year ago after danzicuck. i think corbyn himself is a nice guy, he just has an absolute bastard on his staff. It was leaked to the political editor of the Mirror, it was def done by someone friendly to the corbyn campaign. v. clever.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:54
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Collateral posted:No. And yet swore off any coalition with Labour before this election and was part of the Tory-Lib Dem coalition cabinet meaning he's about as leftwing as Blair.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:54
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The thing about the manifesto leak was that the right-wing papers poo poo themselves over policies that were actually very popular with the public like nationalisations. It made the hostile press work for Corbyn.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:55
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SpaceCadetBob posted:1. Is the cladding material a huge fire risk to buildings? Did it undergo flame spread testing? Was it listed for fire retardant properties? Why the gently caress is it on the market if not. It sounds like that isn't a requirement: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/disaster-waiting-to-happen-fire-expert-slams-uk-tower-blocks quote:Arnold Tarling, a chartered surveyor at Hindwoods and a fire safety expert, says the elephant in the room is the flammability of insulation panels that are being used to clad postwar buildings to bring them up to date with today’s thermal standards. A recent £8.7m refurbishment of Grenfell Tower saw the building clad with “ACM cassette rainscreen” panels, an aluminium composite material covering insulation panels, which could have caused the fire to spread more quickly up the facade of the tower.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:55
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Collateral posted:No.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:56
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Thanks Ants posted:See also early Adam Curtis work: Thanks for reminding me of this film, it was great. Not sure I'd want to watch it today though  .I guess today would have been another blow to the idea of using highrise to provide affordable homes like they do in every other overcrowded first world city, but no one was building highrises for anyone other than the rich in London anyway...
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Jun 14, 2017 18:56
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namesake posted:And yet swore off any coalition with Labour before this election and was part of the Tory-Lib Dem coalition cabinet meaning he's about as leftwing as Blair. he said "as any lib dem can get" let it sink in
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Jun 14, 2017 18:58
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Brown Moses posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/875042127327178752 The Passion of Tim
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Jun 14, 2017 18:59
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| # ? May 29, 2024 04:35 |
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Once the fire reached the massive scale we see in the pictures, if it did penetrate the units from the outside, a sprinkler system would not have helped in any way. Ah right, gently caress fires
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Jun 14, 2017 19:00
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