NBA Offseason G/V: Let Me Hear You Post It

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What is going to be your favorite offseason storyline? This poll is closed.
The Big3 Tourney	67	22.41%
Will Lakers draft Ball	40	13.38%
Where will the Pauls go	54	18.06%
Will LeBron jump ship to the Spurs or ??	41	13.71%
Will every team in the league just pivot towards tanking	97	32.44%
Total:	210 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

pubic works project posted:

I might be late to this discussion, but do the Celtics even need Butler?

I think IT/Fultz/Hayward/Horford/etc is a pretty good lineup to have.

Fultz would have to be a REALLY remarkably good rookie to be able to start at the 2 effectively for a contender. It happens, but this is a young kid who's never played off the ball before and was an indifferent college defender. He's not starting over Bradley because he's not gonna be an improvement on Bradley out of the gate.

Paul Zuvella posted:

The gently caress? What kind of dumbass revisionist history is Lebron James and Kevin Durant not being positive contributors during their rookie years?

Durant earned 2.3 win shares despite being played out of position and Lebron had like a Vorp of 3 and winshares above 5.

If you want to compare him to contemporary players, look at Wall or Kyrie. Wall came out and played pretty well his rookie year, and Kyrie played at drat near All Star levels. Elite Point Guard prospects can do well their rookie years.

2WS is awful for a starter. 2.3WS is what Jason Smith and Frank Kaminsky were worth this year. For Boston that would have been their 8th best contributor, for a real contender that's 10th or 11th man territory. As a starter that is not positive contribution. League average usually right around 4. Less than that from a starter is bad. That's fine if you're rebuilding like the Wizards and Sonics were, but terrible if you're trying to improve on a bubble team to make a contender.

Cool Buff Man posted:

I mean I feel like we're talking about different people here when you're saying he's not as good as Thabo Sefalosha on defense. You're welcome to that opinion of course but I don't think we're going to find much common ground to have a solid debate here. I also don't think there's anything wrong with a 16 ppg 55% true shooting/ 39% from three guard and calling those stats "plain ole not good" is just misrepresentation

A very good defensive guard who can shoot ~40% from three and cover up the defensive deficiencies of by far the worst defender in the league is better than what you're painting him as. He's not an all-star or anything but he's not a "JAG" either.

Marcus Smart is a better defender though. Too bad about the shooting. His hair was cut off though so maybe some strides will be made.

I really like Bradley and I guess I'd just like to see that reflected in ANYTHING. Like, he's not the best perimeter defender on his team, a team that was just average on defense (admittedly much better the year before but still not amazing) but he's a top defender? I just don't think it tracks that the Celtics have 2 elite perimeter defenders and a guy who has historically been an elite or near elite interior defender in Horford, but they're a dead average defensive team. If IT really is that bad, can they be said to be covering for him effectively? I don't really know. It's a very weird situation. HOWEVER

16ppg on 55%TS isn't bad but it isn't good either.. It's just generic starting guard or sixth man production. Since he does nothing else on offense - he doesn't create shots for himself or others, he isn't a great (or even very good) screener because he's so small - that's like the bare minimum level of acceptable on offense for a starter. If you're starting a guy who produces 3WS, you're almost definitely not contending.

Sefolosha is still an elite perimeter defender btw. He's just actual trash on offense

Metapod posted:

I'm not sure what Boston's cap situation is so let's say they get Hayward on a max deal obviously would they be able to get Dedmon?

Perhaps. I'm not sure how much it matters. Dedmon is a starting quality player, but he has just never moved past the universal young big fouling problems, and he's like 28 or something now. I'm not sure he can ever stay on the court 30 minutes night in and night out. His fouls per 36 are consistently pushing 6. Maybe that's ok when you have Horford too.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:30

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:23

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/875061257631617024

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:41

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Kibner posted:

Thanks to you and everyone else who donated to help make that trip possible, btw! We are losing lots of members this summer to graduation and moving for jobs, so it might be difficult to go again next year, but I'll do my best to try to gather new members and go again because we loved it.

----

Rick, validation on the Lakers drafting prowess: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/nba-draft-data-76ers-bryan-colangelo-win-shares-20170614.html

Basically, they used win shares and expected win shares in respect to the position a player was picked to determine how much a team's drafted players over/under performed their pick slot.

This is awesome to see. So far the new front office seems to be conducting itself like the old one in regards to the draft if nothing else, so hopefully things continue. I hope?

Cool Buff Man posted:

Griffin for a win now attempt, Hayward for a more stable future. I would love either one obviously and the chances are against signing either of them so it's more about which one would play for Boston

I'm really curious as to what Griffin is going to do. There aren't a ton of leaks about it, and he seems to be keeping a pretty low profile. Normally to me that suggests staying, but someone really savvy about the LA media may just be keeping quiet until they are on the flight out of town.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:42

Spacebump: Dec 24, 2003; Dallas Mavericks: Generations

Redgrendel2001 posted:

https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/875061257631617024

Guess they are drafting a fake Dirk.

edit:
or comedy option trading the pick.

Spacebump fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 14, 2017

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:43

JesusSinfulHands: Oct 24, 2007; Sartre and Russell are my heroes

Cool Buff Man posted:

Jokic

I believe since he came over a year late, he's not eligible for an extension just yet.

Lockback posted:

Wiggins, LaVine, Embiid, Jokic are all getting max extensions. The Rookie Max is not as much as the veteran max. For these teams its kind of a no-brainer, and if they don't another team will try to steal them away.

Bradley Beal and Harrison Barnes got max contracts last year, to set expectations. Crabbe got almost a max.

Beal and Barnes didn't get max contracts in the summer though, they got 'em after the end of their 4th year. I was talking about extensions that will get done by this October. Idk if it's such a sure thing for guys with injury concerns like LaVine and Embiid, especially if their teams want to use cap space next summer

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:44

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

They can have the holidays and the currys !

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:44

Cool Buff Man: Jul 30, 2006; bitch

DeimosRising posted:

I really like Bradley and I guess I'd just like to see that reflected in ANYTHING.

It feels bad to say it but if he was like the Cavs starting SG I think his numbers would go through the roof

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:44

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Potential nightmare situation for the jersey nameplate guy

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:45

Cool Buff Man: Jul 30, 2006; bitch

Rick posted:

I'm really curious as to what Griffin is going to do. There aren't a ton of leaks about it, and he seems to be keeping a pretty low profile. Normally to me that suggests staying, but someone really savvy about the LA media may just be keeping quiet until they are on the flight out of town.

Yeah, this offseason could be potentially disastrous for the Clippers. For Brolic's sake I hope not! Unless it leads to the Celtics getting Griffin.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:47

Brolander: Oct 20, 2008; i am but a vessel

Cool Buff Man posted:

It feels bad to say it but if he was like the Cavs starting SG I think his numbers would go through the roof

i want him. and also 2 more stars to create a big 5. and six ponies

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:49

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Cool Buff Man posted:

Griffin for a win now attempt, Hayward for a more stable future. I would love either one obviously and the chances are against signing either of them so it's more about which one would play for Boston

Well I'm a Butler man and I feel like you have a really good chance at getting Hayward. The fact that his college coach is now an NBA coach is just something that can't be ignored. If the choice was mine, I'd focus on getting Hayward, trade IT, draft Fultz, and build around that. Hayward is only 27 and Stevens is a younger coach too. Focus on making their run the season after next.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 20:52

E2M2: Mar 2, 2007; Ain't No Thang.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/875036632377958401

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:24

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

JesusSinfulHands posted:

Beal and Barnes didn't get max contracts in the summer though, they got 'em after the end of their 4th year. I was talking about extensions that will get done by this October. Idk if it's such a sure thing for guys with injury concerns like LaVine and Embiid, especially if their teams want to use cap space next summer

Oh, that's what I thought you meant. Yeah for early extensions probably Wiggins only, but the rest of those guys are in line for a max after this year. Some guys take early extensions that are not maxes too, so its up to the front office.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:26

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

You won't see max in certain situations because they want to use the cap space first before using bird rights to re sign i.e. kawhi iirc

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:29

Niwrad: Jul 1, 2008

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:40

Vanilla Mint Ice: Jul 17, 2007; A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

Should've told her that they needed another alpha

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:43

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Niwrad posted:

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

This is hilarious.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:44

Libertine: Jun 21, 2004; When I die, I hope they say I made the eSports industry a better place than I made millions of dollars.

Niwrad posted:

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

"The joke is in your front office lady"

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:46

Carlosologist: Oct 13, 2013; Revelry in the Dark

You guys think we'll see a top 5 team trade down in the draft? Certainly seems possible

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:55

Ammanas: Jul 17, 2005; Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Niwrad posted:

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

She is one cancelled season ticket holder away from getting fired, hope you're satisfied

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:55

Niwrad: Jul 1, 2008

I'm pretty convinced she was working off a script written by Gar Forman because she talked about how exciting it was to be back in the playoffs and that the team would be even better next year because it takes awhile for new players to work together. Was waiting for her to mention Luke Kennard being #1 on their draft board.

For real I was kind of depressed because I've had them 11 years and it was mostly fun.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:56

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

But But Jim Paxson is getting more power behind the scenes.

He drafted LeBron James doncha know?

# ? Jun 14, 2017 21:58

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

Niwrad posted:

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

I'm sorry that a strange Iowa State cabal wrecked your team

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:00

Spacebump: Dec 24, 2003; Dallas Mavericks: Generations

I wish the NBA could help teams like the Knicks and Bulls get competent owners. (or at least competent people making the basketball decisions.)

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:03

Niwrad: Jul 1, 2008

It's not that Reinsdorf is incompetent, it's just that he doesn't care. Dolan is incompetent.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:04

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

Dolan is terrible, but it's been a few years since he's been in direct control. The current state of the Knicks is due to Phil.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:06

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Steve Kerr in a pod with Lowe basically said Mike Brown won the series against the Cavs, because he was the biggest advocate for just running the Durant/Curry pickNroll and really fought for it in game 5.

Also James McAdoo was going to play but was only stopped because he didn't want to interrupt David West's flow. So thank you, David West for preventing another disaster.

He told a story where he spent all training camp telling KD "If you don't get the ball, just screen and keep moving. Don't just stand here."

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:06

Cool Buff Man: Jul 30, 2006; bitch

At this point, whoever is changing the thread title is either a moron or the biggest troll in the world and is depriving us of "Is Ian Sjumpert the worst"

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:07

Niwrad: Jul 1, 2008

I always thought the Mike Brown hate went too far. He won 66 games with that Cavs team that everyone said had an abysmal supporting cast for Lebron. And I don't think that Lebron was as good as the Lebron we saw in Miami and his second Cleveland run. He was made into the scapegoat for a bad front office and marketing reasons.

Redgrendel2001 posted:

Dolan is terrible, but it's been a few years since he's been in direct control. The current state of the Knicks is due to Phil.

Hiring a guy who is a decade behind the times seems like a bad decision. Renewing his contract when he's done nothing but piss off everyone seems even worse.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:10

Time: Aug 1, 2011; It Was All A Dream

Cool Buff Man posted:

At this point, whoever is changing the thread title is either a moron or the biggest troll in the world and is depriving us of "Is Ian Sjumpert the worst"

Agreed

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:11

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

Niwrad posted:

I officially did not renew my Bulls tickets today. The sales person sounded pretty desperate so I'm guessing season ticket sales are way down. I did say I would renew if they fired GarPax which she thought was me making a joke.

Rumour of the day

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6h5n03/just_a_reminder_tom_thibodeau_wanted_to_draft/

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:11

Niwrad: Jul 1, 2008

attackmole posted:

Rumour of the day

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6h5n03/just_a_reminder_tom_thibodeau_wanted_to_draft/

That's been out for a few years now. Wouldn't even classify it as a rumor since Ron Adams has come out and said him and Thibodeau wanted Green.

Adams did get his wish to coach Draymond though. Neither was good enough for the Bulls front office.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:16

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

attackmole posted:

Rumour of the day

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6h5n03/just_a_reminder_tom_thibodeau_wanted_to_draft/

You really could do this kind of stuff with any team in the league, whether or not there is any truth to it. There are always going to be opinions, and you never hear when a guy has a bad opinion and is overruled. Draymond Green was a 6'6 PF. It is not a stretch at all to pass up on him, in fact since he was drafted in the 2nd round every team in the league passed on him!

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:17

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

3 pick to Indiana
Pg to cle
Love to philly
Whatever else needed to make it work under the cba.

Who says no .

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:18

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

euphronius posted:

3 pick to Indiana
Pg to cle
Love to philly
Whatever else needed to make it work under the cba.

Who says no .

Any sane and rational person.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:21

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

Lockback posted:

You really could do this kind of stuff with any team in the league, whether or not there is any truth to it. There are always going to be opinions, and you never hear when a guy has a bad opinion and is overruled. Draymond Green was a 6'6 PF. It is not a stretch at all to pass up on him, in fact since he was drafted in the 2nd round every team in the league passed on him!

Oh totally, I just have fun with hindsight even when it's not fair.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:29

Dutchy: Jul 8, 2010

Tae posted:

He told a story where he spent all training camp telling KD "If you don't get the ball, just screen and keep moving. Don't just stand here."

Finally someone told KD what everyone spent eight years yelling at their TV

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:30

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

euphronius posted:

3 pick to Indiana
Pg to cle
Love to philly
Whatever else needed to make it work under the cba.

Who says no .

Me.

Tae posted:

Also James McAdoo was going to play but was only stopped because he didn't want to interrupt David West's flow. So thank you, David West for preventing another disaster.

David West's flow is his "AND-1"

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:41

pubic works project: Jan 28, 2005; No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Edit: loving post is not edit.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:42

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:23

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/875095302172282885

What I'm gathering here is that Steve Nash was the worst defender of all time.

# ? Jun 14, 2017 22:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NBA Offseason G/V: Let Me Hear You Post It

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