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Aren't they the insane hosed up fundamentalist Protestant party that keeps causing outbreaks of the mumps because they don't believe in vaccination Well, you have two of them so I assume CU is the least bad one, judging by how surprisingly OK you seem to be with them.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 07:20 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 10:03 |
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The really bad one is SGP, the CU is in favor of retaining part of the welfare state and no more privatizations of things that ought to be state-run, they're in favor of green energy too, but then they're against abortions and legal weed. I don't like them but they're not the worst party by a long stretch.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 07:29 |
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Phlegmish posted:Aren't they the insane hosed up fundamentalist Protestant party that keeps causing outbreaks of the mumps because they don't believe in vaccination They used to run on the same list with CU but we've abolished list mergers in all elections (inshallah).
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 09:47 |
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Hambilderberglar posted:That's the SGP, which also doesn't allow women to be members, and their website is down on sunday, among a variety of hosed up poo poo they believe in. Women can be members ever since judges threatened to withhold their state subsidies for discrimination against women. Women who are members still can't vote, however.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 14:17 |
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loving lol @ Baudet calling the VVD a left wing party re: Rotterdam municipal elections.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 15:33 |
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Orange Devil posted:loving lol @ Baudet calling the VVD a left wing party re: Rotterdam municipal elections. Baudet is absolute poison for anything. I'm more worried about him than I am about Wilders.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 15:53 |
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Junior G-man posted:Baudet is absolute poison for anything. I'm more worried about him than I am about Wilders. Agreed.
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# ? Jun 14, 2017 15:57 |
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Surely nothing bad can ever happen now that we've turned Greece into a long-term debt colony? It'll work out fine. http://www.politico.eu/article/why-greece-is-germanys-de-facto-colony/ quote:Why Greece is Germany’s ‘de facto colony’ I read Varoufakis' book on the negotiations a few weeks a go - absolutely worth your time by the way - and this is just another repeat of another repeat. Tsipras should've used the no vote to get the hell out.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 09:22 |
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There is also that German guy who go to restaurants in Florence, do not pay and says that THE ITALIANS WILL PAY FOR IT.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 09:53 |
So, just that I understand this correctly, if you enter a contract and expect this contract to be fulfilled by the other party, that's making them your "colony"? Coolio.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 09:56 |
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Yeah, if you sign a contract that says they are your colony and expect them to fulfil the contract by being your colony, that makes them your colony.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 10:25 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So, just that I understand this correctly, if you enter a contract and expect this contract to be fulfilled by the other party, that's making them your "colony"? Your parents, uncles and older neighbours were encouraged to enter a contract so they could live the high life, now you are a slave to a foreign power.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 10:45 |
nimby posted:Your parents, uncles and older neighbours were encouraged to enter a contract so they could live the high life, now you are a slave to a foreign power. Well, they can always quit the EU and go back to the Drachme if the want to default - no one is taking that option away from them.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 10:54 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, they can always quit the EU and go back to the Drachme if the want to default - no one is taking that option away from them. Charybdis, meet Scylla.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 10:56 |
Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Charybdis, meet Scylla. Well, obviously if you cheat to get into the Eurozone, continue to cheat to have a debt fueled consumption binge and than elect a number of governments who only look out for their own clients, life is going to suck. It's also important to note that the biggest reason the Greeks want debt relief now instead of at the end of the program is that they need it for internal politics - not because they have immediate funding needs that need to be taken care of. I don't see why other countries should sacrifice political capital to help SYRIZA out - and I'm not just talking about Germany but also about the Netherlands (don't have a government) and Finnland (one of their governing parties just split).
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 11:02 |
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i'm gonna laugh when bayrou gets thrown out the government after the legislatives for being a shithead lol
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 11:30 |
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Kurtofan posted:i'm gonna laugh when bayrou gets thrown out the government after the legislatives for being a shithead lol I remember him ranting a few years back about politicians who were reacting to the press the way he is currently complaining about them. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jun 15, 2017 |
# ? Jun 15, 2017 11:43 |
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quote:Berlin, which has long opposed outright debt relief, refuses to budge. With a general election in Germany set for late September, Merkel and Schäuble are unlikely to soften their position anytime soon. The Greek bailouts remain politically toxic in Germany, and any agreement involving debt forgiveness would be seen domestically as an admission the rescue effort had failed — and at the German taxpayers’ expense. This is the key paragraph. Debt forgiveness would be an admission. Meanwhile everyone who knows anything (aka everyone in this thread but GC) has already understood long ago that the bailout coupled with austerity was a failure. Wile E. Schauble is stubbornly insisting that as long as we don't look down, we haven't walked off the cliff.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 11:59 |
Orange Devil posted:This is the key paragraph. Debt forgiveness would be an admission. Meanwhile everyone who knows anything (aka everyone in this thread but GC) has already understood long ago that the bailout coupled with austerity was a failure. Wile E. Schauble is stubbornly insisting that as long as we don't look down, we haven't walked off the cliff. Actually both the second bailout (not completed thanks to Oxi, otherwise debt relief would have been offered in November 2015) and the third state that debt measures will be taken at the end of the program to ensure that the Greek debt is sustainable after the end of the program. The key point is that Tsipras want's debt relief now to strengthen his position internally.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 12:24 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Actually both the second bailout (not completed thanks to Oxi, otherwise debt relief would have been offered in November 2015) and the third state that debt measures will be taken at the end of the program to ensure that the Greek debt is sustainable after the end of the program. So loving what if Tsipras needs the relief for internal stability? Greek debt still exists whether Syriza benefits or not from a debt relief, and the Greek economy will never return to pre crisis levels unless you take measures to forgive its unsustainable debts.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 12:38 |
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I Love Annie May posted:So loving what if Tsipras needs the relief for internal stability? Greek debt still exists whether Syriza benefits or not from a debt relief, and the Greek economy will never return to pre crisis levels unless you take measures to forgive its unsustainable debts. Except that with interest cuts, repayment free periods and maturity extensions, the debt is in no way unsustainable in the short term (Greece has a smaller repayment burden as a percentage of debt than France right now) so it is about political capital
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 13:05 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So, just that I understand this correctly, if you enter a contract and expect this contract to be fulfilled by the other party, that's making them your "colony"? This is your mind on neoliberalism. I guess you think the Unequal Treaties were just contracts? Lmao
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 13:10 |
lollontee posted:This is your mind on neoliberalism. I must have missed the part of history were China cooked there books to be even considered worthy of those Treaties, surely you have a source for that? I Love Annie May posted:So loving what if Tsipras needs the relief for internal stability? Greek debt still exists whether Syriza benefits or not from a debt relief, and the Greek economy will never return to pre crisis levels unless you take measures to forgive its unsustainable debts. Again, there is consensus on the issue of medium and long term debt relief - the only question is whether it should be done now or at the end of the program. Perhaps you can enlighten me why gross financing needs of Greece in 2040-2050 are such a pressing issue today, when there is an explicit commitment by the Eurogroup to deal with that issue in 2018, at the end of the program.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 13:55 |
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Kurtofan posted:i'm gonna laugh when bayrou gets thrown out the government after the legislatives for being a shithead lol The Ayrault and Valls governments were full of shitheads and conflicting egos. That's not going to harm Bayrou, I think.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:01 |
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GaussianCopula posted:I must have missed the part of history were China cooked there books to be even considered worthy of those Treaties, surely you have a source for that?
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:11 |
lollontee posted:Ah yes, well of course that justifies your brave new model neocolonialism. Now that you say it, the unwarranted and completely injustified destruction of British property by the perfidious Qing was a completely jus ad bellum. Colonialism would describe a situation in which the overlord is funneling wealth and resources out of the colony, I don't see that in happening in Greece at all. The award for best doorstep interview of the Eurogroup goes to Peter Kazimir and his briefcase stuffed with money https://tvnewsroom.consilium.europa.eu/event/eurogroup-meeting-june-2017-17328/arrival-and-doorstep-sk-kaimr-178dd GaussianCopula fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:34 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Colonialism would describe a situation in which the overlord is funneling wealth and resources out of the colony, I don't see that in happening in Greece at all.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:37 |
A Buttery Pastry posted:Colonies don't actually have to be profitable. So what would be the point of having Greece as a colony?
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:52 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Colonialism would describe a situation in which the overlord is funneling wealth and resources out of the colony, I don't see that in happening in Greece at all. No it wouldn't you illiterate twathead. How you convinced yourself of something this divorced from reality (and dictionary definitions of words) I cannot fathom, but I'm starting to envy your capacity for self-delusion.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:56 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So what would be the point of having Greece as a colony? Germany will always let its foreign policy be determined by the necessity to secure the space necessary to the life of [their] Folk.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 14:58 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So what would be the point of having Greece as a colony?
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:10 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So what would be the point of having Greece as a colony? If you cannot figure out why your beloved Schitwolf would use Greece for accounting fraud in the ongoing 4+ trillion euro bank bailout of the past decade, you are literally retarded. Your Deutsche Bank, along with the rest of EU banking system is bankrupt, and instead of admitting it your political leaders blamed it on Greece and made it into a national accounting fraud dumping ground. But of course, you are psychologically incapable of admitting that reality, because that would have some rather uncomfortable implications for neoliberal ideological hypocrisy. You know, that whole free markets bullshit doesn't really work very well if the price tag for keeping the banks alive is trillions of euros every few decades...
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:11 |
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GaussianCopula posted:So what would be the point of having Greece as a colony? Sadism mainly.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:15 |
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lollontee posted:If you cannot figure out why your beloved Schitwolf would use Greece for accounting fraud in the ongoing 4+ trillion euro bank bailout of the past decade, you are literally retarded. Your Deutsche Bank, along with the rest of EU banking system is bankrupt, and instead of admitting it your political leaders blamed it on Greece and made it into a national accounting fraud dumping ground. This. Deutsche is the Goldman Sachs of Europe.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:19 |
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Yeah, GC and the Federal Republic should really stop treating Germany and Deutsche Bank as separate entities, just because ~legally~ Deutsche Bank is a corporation that Germany only holds shares in. (Maybe it should be renamed into the East Thracian Trading Company AG?)
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:42 |
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It's really cool since this is like the umpteenth time I've had this argument with GC, and he runs away every single facking time time. Ah well, the point bears repeating I guess.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 15:42 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Colonialism would describe a situation in which the overlord is funneling wealth and resources out of the colony, I don't see that in happening in Greece at all. http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/19/news/companies/greece-germany-airports-privatization/index.html No one is as blind as the man who doesn't want to see, as we say in Spain. And you go on with your blabber about how they signed a perfectly fine agreement, for anyone else who's reading it: When you have to privatize fast, fire-sale style, you can't sell at any price but cheap for a number of reasons. That's what's going on with the above article.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 16:36 |
Yes Greece was rescued in 2011 because a collapse would have risked a collapse of the European banking system, which was very fortunate for Greece. Not sure why this is relevant today, given that Greece is still a sovereign country which could refuse to continue being a "debt colony" any day.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 16:38 |
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Orange Devil posted:This. Deutsche is the Goldman Sachs of Europe. The same Goldman Sachs that tried their best to reject any government capital injections and only gave in in the end because every bank had to accept one? The same Goldman Sachs that then promptly repaid the capital, giving the government a profit? Or could it just be that, when you don't understand a thing about economics or finance, you just associate Goldman Sachs with everything bad? Just for future reference: Goldman Sachs is the bank you're supposed to hate for "helping" Greece hide their debt (Goldman sold them an interest rate product that allowed them to reclassify debt) or mis-selling CDOs. In general though anyone trying to draw some sort of link between Deutsche Bank and Greece is a total moron. While DB had problems in Greece (total exposure of about e1.2bn in 2011, not all of which was low quality), they were pretty miniscule compared to the exposures that French banks had. But then again, back to my point about Goldman, you're probably naming Deutsche because of it's name as opposed to any actual understanding of how it got into trouble.. lollontee posted:It's really cool since this is like the umpteenth time I've had this argument with GC, and he runs away every single facking time time. Ah well, the point bears repeating I guess. Let's think about a hypothetical scenario for starters: Let's say that Greece had defaulted in 2011 and the French banks took the losses. What do you think would have happened? Either the banks go under, which is retarded for the rest of Europe and no one ever lends to Greece again (also, Europe is screwed). Or then the banks get bailed out with equity injections, but no one ever lends to Greece again because they just defaulted. Oh yeah, and they still have a huge deficit, instead of a deficit that's partly financed by the EU for the next 7 years (and counting). Not to mention what happens to Greek pension funds who were the main holders of Greek debt (and thus were bailed out). But by all means, continue ing about how the banks got "bailed out" even though the biggest beneficiary of the bailout was the Greek people and it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper for the rest of Europe to just take care of their own banks and let Greece finance its own deficit and take care of its own pension funds. It's like you're an animal of some sort who's just been instinctively been trained to start growling whenever someone mentions "banks"
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 16:45 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 10:03 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:The same Goldman Sachs that tried their best to reject any government capital injections and only gave in in the end because every bank had to accept one? The same Goldman Sachs that then promptly repaid the capital, giving the government a profit? The problem being you couldnt bailout a 40 trillion dollar economy in tbe snp pf a fj gers. Greece defaults, euro project dies of capital flight.
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# ? Jun 15, 2017 17:02 |