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Ogmius815 posted:You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe that story. I promise nobody from Wyoming, Ohio wanted a North Korean propaganda poster to hang on their church's wall as trophy, never mind promising $10k and a car for it. Nothing about the confession makes any sense. I guarantee you that story was fabricated, either by the North Korean prosecutor or by Otto himself under duress. $10k and a car in exchange for stealing a propaganda poster seems like the kind of thing that a North Korean mid-level bureaucrat desperate to cover up the arrest of an American tourist would make up. It's wildly disproportionate to the actual worth, and sounds luxurious by NK standards. Korean dogs: 
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Jun 15, 2017 21:26
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Michael Scott posted:I'm from Chicago and you're an idiot I've heard its a toddlin' town. Yes/No?
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Jun 15, 2017 21:26
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Michael Scott posted:I'm from Chicago and you're an idiot No, you just don't even know what's going on in your own city: quote:Alleged police practices at Homan Square, according to those familiar with the facility who spoke out to the Guardian after its investigation into Chicago police abuse, include: This Chicago PD black site was operating as late as 2012.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:26
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Night10194 posted:He cannot function without Hillary, can he? "BUT EMAILS!" is going to be on that fucker's tombstone. The Republicans are a party of opposition, not leadership, and they literally have no idea what to do when they are in charge. They can never let Hillary go, and to some extent Obama, because without being the plucky underdogs that are fighting back against the man for your interests they have no identity. And, more importantly, no plan.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:26
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Pretty sure he's confusing the "destroyed phones with hammer" thing with what Tom Brady did during Deflategate
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Jun 15, 2017 21:27
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Mulva posted:The Republicans are a party of opposition, not leadership, and they literally have no idea what to do when they are in charge. They can never let Hillary go, and to some extent Obama, because without being the plucky underdogs that are fighting back against the man for your interests they have no identity. And, more importantly, no plan. Yeah. This is the only reason we've even gotten this far without losing ACA or enduring something close to the Muslim Ban or a whole host of other horrors.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:29
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GreyjoyBastard posted:And that's why democracy is a failure and we need hereditary monarchies. God Save the Queen!
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Jun 15, 2017 21:29
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boner confessor posted:do you actually think this is a good argument or are you just mad at me for saying things you disagree with To be clear I'm trying to show how your argument is unconvincing by applying it to a more familiar situation, where it's obvious that it's not fair to blame the victim of unjust treatment even if they did arguably did something to cause it. Don't worry, I'm not cross with you.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:29
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BarbarianElephant posted:God Save the Queen! I mean, the American Revolution WAS illegal.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:30
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Javes posted:This is such a helpful chart in dealing with the bullshit conservative meme about how the ACA was "shoved down our throats." Wait, so the Republican Party is against raising taxes on high-earning individuals and government policies that redistribute wealth? They didn't oppose Obamacare based on parliamentary timeline violations? Has this been reported before?
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Jun 15, 2017 21:30
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Donnie, even if crooked h did obstruct justice, that doesn't mean you aren't guilty of obstructing justice
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Jun 15, 2017 21:30
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Javes posted:This is such a helpful chart in dealing with the bullshit conservative meme about how the ACA was "shoved down our throats." Process arguments have never changed one single mind about anything.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:30
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Teddybear posted:$10k and a car in exchange for stealing a propaganda poster seems like the kind of thing that a North Korean mid-level bureaucrat desperate to cover up the arrest of an American tourist would make up. It's wildly disproportionate to the actual worth, and sounds luxurious by NK standards. $10k, a car, an electric rice cooker and a crate of toilet paper! Unimaginable decadent American luxury!
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Jun 15, 2017 21:31
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Nocturtle posted:To be clear I'm trying to show how your argument is unconvincing by applying it to a more familiar situation, where it's obvious that it's not fair to blame the victim of unjust treatment even if they did arguably did something to cause it. Don't worry, I'm not cross with you. being a woman in public isn't illegal. defacing a portrait of dear leader is. we can all agree that unjust treatment for no reason is not deserved, but if you willingly go to a totalitarian state where the authorities can and will subject you to unjust treatment then you have an obligation to be on your best behavior should you naturally want to be subject to excessive punishment for minor crimes. what we in the west think about it doesn't matter so much because north korea isn't the west, it is a soverign state with terrible punishments
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Jun 15, 2017 21:32
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boner confessor posted:being a woman in public isn't illegal. defacing a portrait of dear leader is. we can all agree that unjust treatment for no reason is not deserved, but if you willingly go to a totalitarian state where the authorities can and will subject you to unjust treatment then you have an obligation to be on your best behavior should you naturally want to be subject to excessive punishment for minor crimes. what we in the west think about it doesn't matter so much because north korea isn't the west, it is a soverign state with terrible punishments "Look all I'm saying is if those people didn't want to accept criminal prosecution, they should never have committed the CRIME of helping those slaves escape from their rightful owners."
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Jun 15, 2017 21:34
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mcmagic posted:Process arguments have never changed one single mind about anything. Prove it? Obviously there are plenty of people who are immune to all kinds of evidence, but this could chip away at the edges a little more.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:35
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androo posted:I've physically destroyed HDDs containing much less sensitive info way back in the day, for IT clients. Faster than doing a full wipe. But if she was only using her phone to access HER EMAILS wouldn't it not matter since the sensitive info wasn't actually on her phone just the means of accessing sensitive info? So, in metaphor form, who gives a poo poo if she destroys one key to a room they already have access to? "Bleaching" the emails is a bit more complicated but, as I understand it, it was part of a regularly scheduled maintenance thing and they recovered them anyway, I remember my BernieBro idiot sister (who REFUSED to vote for Clinton despite the fact that she's gay and has a mixed race baby with her girlfriend, that worked out well) screaming about how Clinton HAS to drop out so they can take the necessary time to go through all the recovered emails first!!!!!!
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Jun 15, 2017 21:36
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Nevvy Z posted:Prove it? Obviously there are plenty of people who are immune to all kinds of evidence, but this could chip away at the edges a little more. Obviously the only thing that can be done to defeat Trump is to pledge loyalty to full communism now. Anything less is corporate centrist compromise.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:37
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Ogmius815 posted:"Look all I'm saying is if those people didn't want to accept criminal prosecution, they should never have committed the CRIME of helping those slaves escape from their rightful owners." "look, officer, i know my backpack was stuffed with marijuana but it's not illegal where i come from! how dare you throw me in your filthy nasty prison! i don't care if this is malayasia, i am a us citizen protected by the bill of rights and i demand to speak to my congressman! where are you going! you can't leave me here, it's not fair!"
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Jun 15, 2017 21:37
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boner confessor posted:i dont know why you aren't grasping this. the world as it turns out is not fair, and if you go to a horrible place and break the law really bad things may happen to you no matter how unfair that is i too like to blame the victim
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Jun 15, 2017 21:37
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2:21PM 2:51PM https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/875440568121180160 11:11AM Shifty Pony posted:2016 Commerce Secretary statement on Equal Employment Opportunity:  Trump Thread scoops failing mainstream media
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Jun 15, 2017 21:40
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Google Butt posted:Donnie, even if crooked h did obstruct justice, that doesn't mean you aren't guilty of obstructing justice He can only understand things in terms of competition.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:40
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Duke Igthorn posted:But if she was only using her phone to access HER EMAILS wouldn't it not matter since the sensitive info wasn't actually on her phone just the means of accessing sensitive info? So, in metaphor form, who gives a poo poo if she destroys one key to a room they already have access to? "Bleaching" the emails is a bit more complicated but, as I understand it, it was part of a regularly scheduled maintenance thing and they recovered them anyway, I remember my BernieBro idiot sister (who REFUSED to vote for Clinton despite the fact that she's gay and has a mixed race baby with her girlfriend, that worked out well) screaming about how Clinton HAS to drop out so they can take the necessary time to go through all the recovered emails first!!!!!! It "mattered" in the sense that the standard State Department procedure for replacing a phone like that is: 1) Turn in the dead device 2) State IT will give you a temporary device 3) State IT will go through the device and remotely transfer the data to a new device 4) Once it is cleared, State IT will delete all data on the device 5) It is run through a magnet and a shredder 6) The shredder remains are handled by company contracted to dispose of sensitive documents (I believe it is Iron Mountain) By remotely deleting all the data and smashing the phone, she prevented anyone from potentially recovering anything from the device. That could potentially violate State IT and record-keeping rules. Also, in theory, if they didn't smash it thoroughly enough and someone got their hands on it and knew what they were doing, then they could try to extract data from it.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:40
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HappyHippo posted:i too like to blame the victim If he didn't want to be a prisoner why was he wearing that black and white striped shirt?
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Jun 15, 2017 21:42
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pretty odd that this thread is appealing to white privilege for once. being an american means i should not be subject to local law, it's only my fair and natural birthright as a member of the bestest, yoogiest nation on earth
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Jun 15, 2017 21:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Also, in theory, if they didn't smash it thoroughly enough and someone got their hands on it and knew what they were doing, then they could try to extract data from it. In theory... maybe. In reality: gently caress no. Data recovery from a physically hosed up device is possible, but mainly in a laboratory setting. Like a high grade world class lab. You pretty much need an electron microscope and a full lithographic scan of the chips involved.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:43
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Xae posted:In theory... maybe. I bet Russia has a place like that.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:44
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Xae posted:In theory... maybe. Yeah, I'm not saying it made a practical difference. But it was a violation of State IT procedures because they require that sensitive data be disposed of in a way that has a 0% chance of being recovered. 0.01% doesn't cut it. State had no way to verify that her IT team was disposing of them properly.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:44
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Nevvy Z posted:Prove it? Obviously there are plenty of people who are immune to all kinds of evidence, but this could chip away at the edges a little more. Who exactly are you trying to reach with process arguments? Anyone inside baseball enough to even understand the differences has already made up their mind.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:45
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boner confessor posted:"look, officer, i know my backpack was stuffed with marijuana but it's not illegal where i come from! how dare you throw me in your filthy nasty prison! i don't care if this is malayasia, i am a us citizen protected by the bill of rights and i demand to speak to my congressman! where are you going! you can't leave me here, it's not fair!" This is dumb as hell and doesn't excuse victim blaming.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:46
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boner confessor posted:pretty odd that this thread is appealing to white privilege for once. being an american means i should not be subject to local law, it's only my fair and natural birthright as a member of the bestest, yoogiest nation on earth Cruel and arbitrary punishment is unjust no matter who is on the receiving end.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:47
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Sounds like someone didn't get that sweet red toy firetruck with extending ladder for their birthday.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:48
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Hot take: North Korea is bad and tourists who go there are directly implicit in its evil since those tour packages are one of the largest avenues it has to acquire foreign currency. Just go watch the VICE documentary and you'll see literally everything it has to offer since the tours are all carbon copies.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:50
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BarbarianElephant posted:I bet Russia has a place like that. Data "Recovery" like that usually requires you to do that before the device is crushed. Then do another after. A few years back there was a scare about people being able to get encryption keys from memory after it was removed from a computer. The abstract of the article got published before the details, but once the details came out it turns out that the process involved included cooling the chip to near absolute zero and then scanning it, while still near absolute zero, with an electron microscope. That is the kind of thing we're talking about. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Hot take: North Korea is bad and tourists who go there are directly implicit in its evil since those tour packages are one of the largest avenues it has to acquire foreign currency. No poo poo. You can't get arrested and thrown in a North Korean prison camp and beaten into a coma if you never go to North Korea in the first place. The world is a big places and there is plenty to see in areas that aren't run by the worlds largest cult.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:50
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https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/875452710316912640 They must pay an electoral price for this.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:50
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No Safe Word posted:This is dumb as hell and doesn't excuse victim blaming. he's not really a victim though? as far as we know he committed a criminal act in north korea. i've said the punishment was wildly unjust but as north korea is a sovereign state with an independent criminal justice system the wise thing to do would be to not break the law in north korea. the reason people think he's a victim is because 1) the punishment is excessive, which i just said i agree with but tough poo poo thats how independent states work 2) north korea must have lied for reasons nobody seems to be able to describe or substantiate aside from the fact that they are, and i use the legal term here, "bad guys" how is he a victim, given that he most likely committed a criminal act? (and because this thread is being really stupid right now, i do not think his act should be criminalized either) HappyHippo posted:Cruel and arbitrary punishment is unjust no matter who is on the receiving end. since you're climbing up on a little rickety wooden high horse here for the most moronic of reasons would you care to share your opinions re: the relative benefits of stomping kittens to death? so long as we're getting it all out on the record about whether unjust punishments are a bad or good thing
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Jun 15, 2017 21:51
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HappyHippo posted:i too like to blame the victim They literally built a wall around themselves to keep the world out and then covered the area around the wall with minefields and machine gun nests and barbed wire and posters with a tubby androgynous man gazing at you sternly. If you are an American* and don't want to be a victim of the North Korean despotic state, just don't go to loving North Korea. If you want to try and make a torturous analogy between what happened to this guy and sexual assault, then this is the equivalent of someone getting sexually assaulted after breaking into Bill Cosby's jail cell. It's the equivalent of all those stories about people on expired green cards who are also Trump supporters who are shocked, shocked, when they get deported. Yes, obviously North Korea is horrible and to blame. Water also happens to be wet. But at a certain level of willful stupidity, you kind of lose the claim to innocent victim-hood. *Does not apply to North Koreans and South Korean filmmakers, obviously. That's a whole other kettle of fish.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:52
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Jealous Cow posted:https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/875452710316912640 They stole a SCOTUS seat and benefited from it electorally.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:54
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yep apparently that's really under consideration: https://twitter.com/LorenAdler/status/875454797037658113
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Jun 15, 2017 21:55
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androo posted:Oh loving stop it. We don't need to talk about this again. I don't know. A derail on the proper use of apostrophes could be handy for some posters.
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