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Power Bottom posted:Everyone I've seen has been abusing the hell out of the Windfury quest talent at 7. Don't know what the call is on the other talents, though. Fair enough, that'll get me started in one direction at least.
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Jun 15, 2017 23:36
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NeurosisHead posted:I just had one of those QM games that started with someone doing something loving stupid, and replying with "lol it's qm" when someone called them out. So I spent the entire game relentlessly feeding, and typing "lol it's qm" in chat every few seconds. It was, by a wide margin, the most fun I have had playing this game in at least the last year. Namaste. you are embarrassing, my friend
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Jun 15, 2017 23:47
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S.W.O.R.D. Agent posted:Fair enough, that'll get me started in one direction at least. I usually go for either of the two lightning quest talents at 1 (minion one if I am solo laning all the time, Crash Lightning if I am confident I will be skirmishing enough to progress the quest), Mana Tide at 4 pretty much eliminates your mana issues, Windfury quest at 7 is shockingly easy to complete. 10/13 are flex depended on enemies, and at 16 I usually take the triple windfury strike (it also has the benefit of making you gain stacks very quickly since each hit counts for your quest). At 20 I like his unique bolt. I've gotten the Windfury quest stacked pretty insanely high each time I've played him, I wouldn't be totally shocked if they reduced the amount of damage you get per hit at some point. I imagine the whole Lightning charges and followthrough might still be decent, but I really don't think it can compete with the Windfury build right now
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Jun 15, 2017 23:47
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S.W.O.R.D. Agent posted:So, what's the go to Thrall build post rework? I've had some decent luck building around Follow Through at level 7, as opposed to the Windfury talent. Echo of the Elements at level 1 is pretty easy to complete (you have 1.5 seconds from hitting them with Chain Lightning, and straight up kills with it count), and gives you another charge of Chain Lightning to proc Follow Through with. Mana Tide keeps your mana up, and lowers your ability cooldowns to help you weave more ability casts in. Grace of Air and Tempest Fury gives you more sustain and CDR on your abilities. I like Worldbreaker if you're going for Sundering, but Windrush is pretty good too. It takes some patience to weave the auto attacks in, but I like how it plays.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:08
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Disagree. Uther, Malf, and Rehgar are the healers that fit any comp fine. Lucio is pretty weak at the moment. Tassadar, Tyrande, and Khara are half supports that rely on a 2nd healer. Lili pairs well with any of the above 3 as a weaker 2nd healer with some decent damage output in her E build. Auriel is amazing when she has the cooperation of someone feeding her energy, and less than useless when there isn't. Brightwing is great against comps that don't have good burst, with comps that don't rely on escapeless dive, global presence maps, and bribe map (hanamura). I forgot medic existed.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:19
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Nephzinho posted:
It's a special feeling when you go into QM with her, end up in a comp with basically one person who can feed her energy, and then slowly realize that they're terrible and that you will be starving the entire game.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:21
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Oh Snapple! posted:It's a special feeling when you go into QM with her, end up in a comp with basically one person who can feed her energy, and then slowly realize that they're terrible and that you will be starving the entire game. I play Auriel a decent amount in TL and nowhere else.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:23
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Nephzinho posted:Disagree. You can disagree with reality all you want. It doesn't change the facts.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:33
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Auriel is notably powerful against comps that lack AOE damage and stuns. An Anub'arak just gets free triple knockups from her.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:46
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Midnightghoul posted:I usually go for either of the two lightning quest talents at 1 (minion one if I am solo laning all the time, Crash Lightning if I am confident I will be skirmishing enough to progress the quest), Mana Tide at 4 pretty much eliminates your mana issues, Windfury quest at 7 is shockingly easy to complete. 10/13 are flex depended on enemies, and at 16 I usually take the triple windfury strike (it also has the benefit of making you gain stacks very quickly since each hit counts for your quest). At 20 I like his unique bolt. I've gotten the Windfury quest stacked pretty insanely high each time I've played him, I wouldn't be totally shocked if they reduced the amount of damage you get per hit at some point. Abroham Lincoln posted:I've had some decent luck building around Follow Through at level 7, as opposed to the Windfury talent. Cool, thanks. I'll give these a try tonight.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:59
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Toshimo posted:You can disagree with reality all you want. It doesn't change the facts. Winrate is misleading. A hero can have a high winrate if they are only picked in ideal situations, like TLV by a TLV main or Azmo on Hanamura. A hero can have a low winrate if they attract poor players. What we really need is what they do to evaluate whether a test question is valid: "discrimination". For test questions, a "good discriminator" means the students who got an A on the test typically got this question correct. A "bad discriminator" might fool "A" level students and "F" level students equally, or even favor the "F" level students. The closest equivalent in HotS is to look at the high-tier players to see winrates at their level, but this is also not broadly applicable down in Silver. The Diamond meta is very different from the Silver meta, and playstyles that work in one will likely fail in the other. A pie-in-the-sky statistic I'd like to see is this: of the players in your level who recently ranked up, who did they play and what talents did they choose? Unfortunately, that pool of data is much smaller, so it has more problems  e: it seems TLV's winrate has dropped precipitously since 2.0, likely because now they're more available. My bottom line I think would be this: Don't 100% trust hotslogs, but if you do, filter to your league + one league up, and filter to the map you're going on. Sort by number of games played, and only trust those data near the top - that is, with enough data points to be mostly valid. Also remember that Going by that metric, for me (gold + plat) the best supports on BHB would be Uther, Li Li, and Rehgar. BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 01:04
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Toshimo posted:You can disagree with reality all you want. It doesn't change the facts. What is that table even from? It is a tiny sample size and who knows what maps/comps they were drafted around. Without context it is meaning gibberish, not "facts".
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Jun 16, 2017 01:14
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Nephzinho posted:What is that table even from? It is a tiny sample size and who knows what maps/comps they were drafted around. Without context it is meaning gibberish, not "facts". The 64 games so far in the Midseason Brawl. I hear those guys are pretty good.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:16
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I hear those guys also have a completely different gaming experience than anyone in this thread, with a few exceptions. You're not one of them. e: and very likely, neither is the duder who asked in the first place. and they're playing on a different patch, before Malf was hosed. BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 01:16
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Nephzinho posted:What is that table even from? It is a tiny sample size and who knows what maps/comps they were drafted around. Without context it is meaning gibberish, not "facts". Don't bother arguing with Toshimo.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:17
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BrianBoitano posted:I hear those guys also have a completely different gaming experience than anyone in this thread, with a few exceptions. You're not one of them. Self-improvement is for scrubs. Just keep playing in the mud.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:17
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Toshimo posted:The 64 games so far in the Midseason Brawl. I hear those guys are pretty good. That is utterly useless to answering some random goons question of "what are the good supports".
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Jun 16, 2017 01:18
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Nephzinho posted:That is utterly useless to answering some random goons question of "what are the good supports". I'd argue that it's the best answer, since it's the result of rigorous testing by people who generally know the ins and outs of the game.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:19
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Toshimo posted:Self-improvement is for scrubs. Just keep playing in the mud. Read the other post I made, where I actually attempt to answer the question with relevant data, and make your argument how those 64 games are more helpful to someone just starting in ranked, or even someone who's been stuck in silver or gold for a while. Or don't, idgaf. I'm only pontificating on the thread because I can't play HotS right now 
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Jun 16, 2017 01:20
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Toshimo posted:I'd argue that it's the best answer, since it's the result of rigorous testing by people who generally know the ins and outs of the game. Even setting aside the question of applicability to other formats, those win rates aren't statistically significant. It barely even tells us anything about competitive. Plus, aren't all of those games from the previous patch?
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Jun 16, 2017 01:23
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BrianBoitano posted:and they're playing on a different patch, before Malf was hosed. Malf isn't completely hosed. You can machine gun things from relative safety and waveclear pretty well. His mp isn't as stable mid game and his healing isn't as good, but Twilight is still great and he is better at doing coin camps/small seeds/sniping infernal shrines/etc. The reduced healing on roots could become relevant in a double support meta if supports continue to get reduced healing and increased utility.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:24
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Oh you're punching me in the face, repeatedly? That wouldn't work against Floyd Mayweather, you idiot
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Jun 16, 2017 01:33
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Toshimo posted:Self-improvement is for scrubs. Just keep playing in the mud. Post your rank, bitch!!!
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Jun 16, 2017 01:36
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Post your rank, bitch!!! In placements. Cripes, don't you even know the season just started?
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Jun 16, 2017 01:55
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Toshimo posted:The 64 games so far in the Midseason Brawl. I hear those guys are pretty good. I promise you that when they move to the Malth patch you would not be seeing Malfurion nearly as much in competitive
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Jun 16, 2017 02:24
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BrianBoitano posted:
TLV's winrate tanked because they lost their best maps and got served hanamura, which they are horrible on.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:25
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Even more reason to filter by map! Thanks for pointing that out.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:40
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post you'r'e rank bicth
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Jun 16, 2017 03:03
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1v1 me support only hanamura
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Jun 16, 2017 03:23
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Kharazim's at dawn
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Jun 16, 2017 03:50
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AlphaKeny1 posted:1v1 me support only hanamura All Medic brawl but getting hit with a grenade 1-shots you like the Nova brawl and 5 second death timers and perma stimpacked
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Jun 16, 2017 04:07
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Rehgar is one of those characters who don't sound that interesting on paper but are really fun. OK - you get a heal, a lovely AoE, and a slow. Q and W are not skillshots, E arguably isn't either since it has a pretty wide AoE. I did not realize how great the leap attack from wolf form is. Combined with the totem he is great at catching low HP runners. Between shield and totem you can really punish enemies who engage at the wrong time or place. All the skills in his kit work really well together and you bring much more than just healing to a teamfight. Earth, swallow my enemies!
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Jun 16, 2017 04:24
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p-hop posted:Rehgar is one of those characters who don't sound that interesting on paper but are really fun. OK - you get a heal, a lovely AoE, and a slow. Q and W are not skillshots, E arguably isn't either since it has a pretty wide AoE. Fun Rehgar moves: drop a totem in the middle of a wave as you're passing through towards an objective, give it Lightning Shield, get xp for the lane without sticking around. Funner Rehgar move: take lightning bond at 1, go to a Bruiser camp, drop your totem, and shield it to stack shields and burn Bruisers down fast. Rehgar is ridiculously good at doing mercs when the opportunity arises/if there isn't someone on your team to do it.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:28
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You used to need to talent to get Rehgar's butt bite.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:29
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Today I learned I love full damage build Kharazim. So many warriors and assassins think they can 1v1 you because you're a support until SSS goes off and their health disappears. I know Rehgar is better in theory and games go fine when I pick him, but I always feel like I'm barely doing anything except when I hit ancestral.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:59
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I think people who play healers probably aren't good enough to carry games so they choose the raidleader's girlfriend role.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:24
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After a couple days playing around with Malthael I think he's an unusual hero that most people aren't really understanding properly. He's a 1. Poke assassin that transitions into a 2. Bruiser with high self-sustain. The HP shred is nowhere near as lethal as it seemed when he was teased a few weeks ago, but basically no hero can win a 1v1 against Malthael unless they're able to lay on very exact burst against him. 1: Fear the Reaper is the correct pick here. Death's Reach and On A Pale Horse are QM picks for when you know you have a significant advantage over the enemy team and want to make sure that you hold that advantage over them. 4: Die Alone is too situational and doesn't add enough damage. Throwing Shade is good if you're having trouble engaging into melee and want to focus more on your poking capabilities. Black Harvest has amazing synergy with a couple future talents. 7: Cold Hand is great with Tormented Souls but otherwise not that great given the conditional that Soul Rip relies on (meaning it's usually reliant on landing a good Death Shroud). Mortality is marginal and just basically makes Wraith Strike do actual damage instead of making it good or something. Touch of Death is fantastic vs strong healers or against a Gul'dan, Thrall, or Illidan or similar. 10: I genuinely believe Tormented Souls is the pick here. 20% more survivability is a big deal and being able to follow up on a Death Shroud four seconds later with an AOE health shred is bigly. Last Rites is good if you don't have burst on your team, or against really beefy enemy compositions. 13: Soul Siphon is a loving joke of a talent. Ethereal Existence is the default pick here. Inevitable End feels kinda obsoleted by Fear the Reaper but nice if the enemy team has several telegraphed disables. Shroud of Wisdom is also okay but I think needs a lower cooldown -- fantastic against burst compositions, though. 16: Soul Collector is *really* good with Cold Hand and/or Tormented Souls. This talent makes Malthael really beefy in fights. Massacre is okay but I've had trouble finding a reliable use for it -- maybe in Last Rite builds. Memento Mori is good with Black Harvest & Tormented Souls, and turns Malthael into "Never fight this hero alone or even 2v1, you *will* lose." As a draft pick Malthael essentially is for punishing compositions that lean heavy into double tank or double healer, since he's beefy with Soul Rip and deals very sustained and very consistent damage over time. He can outlast many, many other heroes.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:44
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What is the order of moves people use to obliterate squishies on valeera?
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Jun 16, 2017 06:19
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D, Q, W-> E Properly talented and with Assassinate, that'll max combo points and nearly always guarantee a dead squishy.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:32
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I've found that since the mega nerf the most effective thing is picking up every single Q talent and just stun-Q-Q-E-Q-Q until they die.
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Jun 16, 2017 10:30
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