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I'd love to see Guinan coming on board and explaining that she needs a loving space Gatling gun behind the bar in case poo poo gets rowdy. As for Jellico he was pretty stupid with most of the moves he tried to make but Riker acting like the Enterprise is their own fiefdom and how dare someone try and change things was pretty bad too.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:13
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Arglebargle III posted:sometimes he bangs on the floor with a three foot scale model of the enterprise when ten forward gets too "lit" *Stands up* *Tugs shirt down* *Pounds on floor with broom* *Sits down, crosses legs, opens book* Risible scamps.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:16
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ENT S4E22: "These Are the Voyages" A few notes: One last visit from Cmdr. Shran? YUP  He doesn't do anything cool or Shran-like? NOPE (It's almost as if Berman and Braga didn't know or care about anything about him and just used him as shallow fan-service at the very last. Almost. You know. Yeah.) Fat Riker and The TNG Stuff (good band name, btw) was lame, unnecessary, and obviously shoe-horned in. Had ENT's finale had anything whatsoever to do with Riker's quandary, it would have been kind of alright (TNG-wankery, but otherwise alright). But as it is, he's supposed to be learning a difficult lesson about orders vs ethics, and he watches a holonovel about the foundation of the Federation in which a beloved crew member dies. None of it has anything to do with his thing. It made any already silly premise even worse. Chef being the empty slot for the holonovel's player character was kind of cool, though.  It seemed like a ton of poo poo was missing. Like, a half hour worth of stuff. During Trip's trip (  ) to the Chef, Riker mentions that he hasn't talked to Archer yet. So I expected that the episode is saving that conversation for the very last, which would make sense. And then... nope! No chat between Riker and Archer. What the gently caress?I don't remember Trip's death from this first time I watched this (granted, I was kind of half watching it at the time). That says a lot about how abrupt and weird it's handled in this episode. It occurs too late, and isn't given the right gravity in the aftermath. I kind of wanted more from the medical drama scene, and more from T'Pol in the aftermath. I frankly wanted to see her hulk out and smash a computer monitor into a table like Spock does when he loses his poo poo. Just... more. Seeing the rest of the crew's reaction too would make this less like the awkward mistake that was how Jadzia's death was handled in DS9. There were a lot of missed opportunities around this part of the episode alone, and is maybe the most frustrating part of it. Speaking of which, the absence of Archer's speech was weird, and frustrating. Everything about the last ten minutes was intensely frustrating. Riker is grappling with some bullshit we don't care about, and we never see the resolution of that. We never see the climactic speech that founds the Federation?! I could have sworn it was there when I saw this episode on TV when it aired, but maybe I'm just crazy. It's downright insulting when the ENT-D swoops in when we should be seeing Archer's big speech. It's like a visual metaphor for everything that is wrong with Berman's and Braga's relationship with Trek. It was one last "gently caress you" to anyone that had the nerve to be interested in anything beyond the end of TNG. gently caress you, Rick Berman, and gently caress you Brannon Braga. You "saved" Trek from oblivion only to systematically stifle it for twenty years. You're both like lovely, overbearing parents that won't let their kids grow up. In all, I liked ENT. It's first two seasons stunk, but they weren't ever as bad as VOY at its worst. And the bad stuff was over sooner too, whereas VOY had rich veins of bad TV threaded throughout its run. Season three was good: not bad, but not as good as TNG, DS9, or TOS when they were really humming (we shall never speak of TAS because it is too beautiful for this world). Season four was consistently good, and as I said a little while ago it's a shame this wasn't the first season and all of the alliance-making wasn't threaded through 3-5 seasons. Alright. I've now seen every movie, and episode of every Trek series, including TAS. There's a reward for all of this, right? Right?! 
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Jun 16, 2017 18:49
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Achievement Unlocked: Nerd
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Jun 16, 2017 19:00
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CPColin posted:Achievement Unlocked: Nerd Achievement description: "Man I can't believe anyone would actually bother with Voyager and Enterprise."
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Jun 16, 2017 19:07
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These Are The Voyages (Of Your Perpetual Virginity)
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Jun 16, 2017 19:56
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Yeah, not showing (or writing, lol) Archer's full speech was just as bad as "let's start the episode with Voyager already being home!" There's toying with viewer expectations and then there's robbing them of the narrative satisfaction they came here for in the first place. It's like someone thinking they're doing anti-humor by telling a joke and literally giving no punchline at all, rather than doing an anti-punchline.
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Jun 16, 2017 20:24
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Sir Lemming posted:Yeah, not showing (or writing, lol) Archer's full speech was just as bad as "let's start the episode with Voyager already being home!" There's toying with viewer expectations and then there's robbing them of the narrative satisfaction they came here for in the first place. There was a young man from Japan Whose limericks never would scan. And when they asked why, He said "I do try! But when I get to the last line I try to fit in as many words as I can." --Anonymous ~Becomes~ There was a young man from Japan Whose limericks never would scan. And that's it. gently caress off, nerd. --Rick Berman I honestly don't understand what they were thinking cutting away from the speech like they did. They go right up to the moment it starts! You would think Troi would saying something like, "There's a reason I had to memorize this in grade school. You should really stay to watch it." Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Also, because Trip's death is bothering me more and more: "Florida Man Sacrifices Himself to Save Crew, Is Eulogized By No One" *In Mr. Plinkett Voice* Bermannnnnnnnnnn 
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Jun 16, 2017 21:04
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McSpanky posted:These Are The Voyages (Of Your Perpetual Virginity) My wife's response to the ending was, "Well, that's over. Now I can stop imagining hurting you for playing that theme song in our home. Never again." She also said of the MU theme: "I would live in this lovely alternate reality just to get away from the Enterprise theme song." 
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Jun 16, 2017 21:11
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^^^ haha your wife is great And remember, all of this was intended to be "a love letter to the fans". What fresh hell would have been unleashed if they were actually trying to burn all the bridges?? McSpanky fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 21:11
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For me Trip's death is so dumb and weightless that it's more insulting than the TNG stuff.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:19
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Railing Kill posted:Alright. I've now seen every movie, and episode of every Trek series, including TAS. There's a reward for all of this, right? To be REALLY complete, you need to track down the TNG crossover episode of Webster. http://trekcore.com/blog/2015/03/tng-webster-crossover/
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Jun 16, 2017 21:24
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cenotaph posted:For me Trip's death is so dumb and weightless that it's more insulting than the TNG stuff. It's maybe the only time where the non-canon retcon in the novels (Trip faked his death for some reason and Riker's holo program is based on false history) is a straight upgrade over what actually aired. Probably an unnecessary spoiler tag but whatever. If Discovery wants to go ahead and make that official that would be cool and also kinda hilarious.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:29
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Just heard that FAKE HOLODECK didn't even report about the beautiful speech I made to the Federation. Shran called me and told me he loved it. Never heard from the Vulcans. SAD!
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Jun 16, 2017 21:43
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J33uk posted:I'd love to see Guinan coming on board and explaining that she needs a loving space Gatling gun behind the bar in case poo poo gets rowdy. As for Jellico he was pretty stupid with most of the moves he tried to make but Riker acting like the Enterprise is their own fiefdom and how dare someone try and change things was pretty bad too. It's just a unique adult-beverage bottle with a fancy flashlight. She was bluffing. CPColin posted:Achievement Unlocked: Nerd Nerdvana, surely. And the reason they didn't show Archer's speech is simply that they couldn't write it.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:46
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Delsaber posted:It's maybe the only time where the non-canon retcon in the novels (Trip faked his death for some reason and Riker's holo program is based on false history) is a straight upgrade over what actually aired. Probably an unnecessary spoiler tag but whatever. Yeah, I knew that from reading this thread. I don't pay attention to books and stuff but it's nice to know that it bothered someone enough to do something.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:02
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:And the reason they didn't show Archer's speech is simply that they couldn't write it. I think that's the saddest part of the whole thing. Maybe it was supposed to be a "left to your imagination" type deal, but Star Trek that doesn't relish the opportunity to indulge in dramatic oratory is hardly Star Trek at all. Berman isn't a writer and was barely an 'idea man" and I suspect Braga always needed to have Moore around to punch up his dialog. That's Ent's problem in a nutshell. It has lots of familiar plots, some of them even good, but never had that passion, the wit, the endless scenery chewing speeches that makes good Star Trek what it is.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:16
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:And the reason they didn't show Archer's speech is simply that they couldn't write it. Duckbag posted:I think that's the saddest part of the whole thing. Maybe it was supposed to be a "left to your imagination" type deal, but Star Trek that doesn't relish the opportunity to indulge in dramatic oratory is hardly Star Trek at all. Berman isn't a writer and was barely an 'idea man" and I suspect Braga always needed to have Moore around to punch up his dialog. That's Ent's problem in a nutshell. It has lots of familiar plots, some of them even good, but never had that passion, the wit, the endless scenery chewing speeches that makes good Star Trek what it is. This has been my suspicion as well. It's funny because there's some evidence that Archer sucks at writing speeches. That episode where everyone goes nuts and fixates on one thing ("Florida Man Goes Insane, Fixes a Chair") has Archer fixating on some speech honoring his dad. While everyone else's stuff gets resolved, his doesn't, so it's as though the episode is telling us, "Archer just straight up sucks at writing. They cn't all be winners." That's fine, and it would have been cool to see him stumble out of the gate during the foundation speech, but then pull it together like a boss. Or, you know, just give an Adama-esque Inspirational Speech. But nope. We get nothing except the Ent-D mooning us just as Rick loving Berman and Brannon loving Bragas named appear on the screen. Fade to black. The outragous timing is poetic, in it's own way, even if it's terrible. gently caress those guys.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:58
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Riker's Holodeck Cameo would have made for a fantastic middle of the season, maybe Sweeps episode. Just not a series finale.
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Jun 17, 2017 02:20
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Astroman posted:Riker's Holodeck Cameo would have made for a fantastic middle of the season, maybe Sweeps episode. Just not a series finale. They should have brought Riker in to see how Archer handled a similar situation. Like maybe there was some treaty issue between Earth and someone else and Archer struggled with something admiral whatever had done. That would at least apply to The Pegasus. It would also be way better than doing their stupid birth of the federation thing without the actual birth of the federation.
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Jun 17, 2017 02:30
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They should have had an incredibly dry and boring speech that manages to accidentally insult some of the more emotional species and the Vulcans and Tellarites would have loved it. That's 3/4 votes.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:26
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Got both volumes of The 50 Year Mission and very excited to slog through the ToS poo poo I don't care about and get to the sweet TNG stuff
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Jun 17, 2017 03:30
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I don't get why they even set it during Pegasus. It's not a very good or memorable episode. My theory is it's because that was Riker's last real spotlight episode, but having Fat Frakes playing Captain Riker facing some crisis while settling into his new command would have been so much better.
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Jun 17, 2017 04:25
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Duckbag posted:I don't get why they even set it during Pegasus. It's not a very good or memorable episode. My theory is it's because that was Riker's last real spotlight episode, but having Fat Frakes playing Captain Riker facing some crisis while settling into his new command would have been so much better. It had Terry O'Quinn, you take that right the hell back. 
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Jun 17, 2017 04:39
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The best part of the Enterprise finale is they only built a portion of the 10 Forward set so they spliced that into old footage. Old footage that Riker was also in.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:01
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I wonder if Berman had the brilliant idea that since Riker's appearances in DS9 and VOY were both well received, he'd be a good choice to do an appearance in the franchise finale. Defiant is a phenomenal episode and while the Voyager Q episodes were kinda meh (much like the rest of the show) and supported almost entirely by John de Lancie being wonderful, Q poofing Riker into existence in Death Wish only to send him back without memories of being on Voyager to troll Janeway is great.a
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Jun 17, 2017 06:59
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Duckbag posted:I don't get why they even set it during Pegasus. It's not a very good or memorable episode. My theory is it's because that was Riker's last real spotlight episode, but having Fat Frakes playing Captain Riker facing some crisis while settling into his new command would have been so much better. Should have set it in a first season episode. Maybe the one where Riker gets the Q powers. Or encounter at Farpoint, could have had fat old Data whistling Pop Goes the Weasel.
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Jun 17, 2017 07:31
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Duckbag posted:I don't get why they even set it during Pegasus. It's not a very good or memorable episode. My theory is it's because that was Riker's last real spotlight episode, but having Fat Frakes playing Captain Riker facing some crisis while settling into his new command would have been so much better. I like Pegasus, but the real mystery is why they bothered to set it in a TNG episode at all. Like, okay, do this poo poo if you really want to, but set it post-TNG so that fat, old Riker isn't so wildly incongruous and so you aren't literally inserting scenes in the middle of an existing episode that doesn't need them. It's terrible decisions all the way down.
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Jun 17, 2017 08:02
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Watching Up the Long Ladder. Worf growling at the beginning is funny for some reason.
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Jun 17, 2017 08:18
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The mystery of the Thoreau colony or whatever isn't grabbing me but the subplot of Worf and Pulaski falling in love is great.
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Jun 17, 2017 08:32
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Riker hitting openly on the chieftain's daughter, who shows him ankle  
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Jun 17, 2017 08:48
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Whoa. Now she's wearing the sexiest outfit I've ever seen on Star Trek
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Jun 17, 2017 08:51
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I wonder what the exact difference between synthahol and alcohol is.
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Jun 17, 2017 08:55
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Probably a less debilitating hangover. I think they said once in TNG that you can basically take a pill (or I guess a hypospray) that breaks down all the synthahol really quick so if the ship starts blowing up the entire engineering team can sober up in a jiffy.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:06
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The whole TNG cast should have rotated through the Archer program instead of just Riker. Geordie spends the whole time awkwardly hitting on T'Pol, then Hoshi, and finally...Reed In Barclay's scenes the NX-01 crew is praising him every single sentence. Troi is totally confused about everyone's motivations because her telepathy doesn't work on holograms, and she's constantly elbowing Riker to ask him what's going on. Beverly falls in love with the NX-01 snack machine and gets gum in her hair.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:11
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Kazinsal posted:Probably a less debilitating hangover. The original concept was that you could basically just will yourself sober if you want to, and that synthehol was a Ferengi invention as it allowed them to imbibe during business meetings and then be able to sober up when the real negotiations started. At some point the writers started writing it as more like some lovely lite beer and replicated food became equivalent to TV dinners.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:13
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I'm digging the set design of the sophisticated lost colony.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:15
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VitalSigns posted:The whole TNG cast should have rotated through the Archer program instead of just Riker. What's the Archer program?
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Jun 17, 2017 09:32
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The kid she's holding is so unnaturally cute I thought it was fake until it blinked.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:35
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Jeb! Repetition posted:What's the Archer program? The Enterprise finale.
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Jun 17, 2017 09:55
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