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soldiers legit thought that angels descended from the heavens and cleared a path for their charge across no man's land during ww1 (presumably because they were dehydrated, suffering from dysentery and/or breaking down mentally), so there's no particular reason to think anyone would believe the story of the Wondrous Woman
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Jun 17, 2017 23:41
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Mr. Apollo posted:You also see her outfit in the streets on London. She starts to take over her hooded overcoat and Steve saying something like "What are you doing?! You're not wearing anything!" and wraps her back up and takes her to the dress shop where they meet Etta. That prose sucks.
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Jun 17, 2017 23:43
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ungulateman posted:soldiers legit thought that angels descended from the heavens and cleared a path for their charge across no man's land during ww1 (presumably because they were dehydrated, suffering from dysentery and/or breaking down mentally), so there's no particular reason to think anyone would believe the story of the Wondrous Woman Steve also calls Diana "Angel" as a nickname in the comics. I can't recall if he ever did so in the film though. I thought he was going to on the beach, since his first glimpse of Diana as his plane was sinking into the ocean was fairly ethereal.
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Jun 17, 2017 23:44
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teagone posted:Reading this and remember the scene is making me all   BravestOfTheLamps posted:That prose sucks. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 00:37
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"I can save today. You can save the world." Steeeeve!
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Wonder Woman was great, really enjoyed it. HOWEVER, the trailer for Justice League played before it and it looks like generic nothingtrash. Having just seen a good comic film from DC finally (not counting Chris Nolan films), there's not a chance in hell I'm going to JL. Give me Wonder Woman 2 or gently caress right off.
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Jun 18, 2017 06:45
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Maybe you shouldn't have used Nolan movies as a reference point for good movies. Like WW, they're incredibly overrated pop art.
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Jun 18, 2017 08:08
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ungulateman posted:soldiers legit thought that angels descended from the heavens and cleared a path for their charge across no man's land during ww1 (presumably because they were dehydrated, suffering from dysentery and/or breaking down mentally), so there's no particular reason to think anyone would believe the story of the Wondrous Woman Spooky WW1 angels!   In some versions they were ghosts of Agincourt archers and not angels  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_of_Mons I also remember hearing stories about angels appearing in the sky during WW2 dogfights or something.
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Jun 18, 2017 10:03
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After seeing headlines around the internet about how feminist the movie is (without clicking through for fear of spoilers), I was struck by how un-feminist it turned out to be. Still a lot of the same, tired jokes about strong females ("I'm both frightened and aroused"), and Wonder Woman honestly felt more like a sidekick to Steve most of the time; that whole scene at the gala between Steve and Dr. Poison seemed to gratuitously shove him under the spotlight. I have no strong feeling about any sort of "feminist agenda" one way or the other, but if this was supposed to be empowering, it really fell flat. The movie almost doesn't even pass the Bechdel test, once we get out of Themyscira. There was the brief "trying on outfits" scene between Diana and the secretary, but after that we don't even have female characters interacting with one another.
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Jun 18, 2017 10:03
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Having a relaxing snooze in between the piles of dead horses and dead Germans  
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Jun 18, 2017 12:10
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404notfound posted:After seeing headlines around the internet about how feminist the movie is (without clicking through for fear of spoilers), I was struck by how un-feminist it turned out to be. Still a lot of the same, tired jokes about strong females ("I'm both frightened and aroused"), and Wonder Woman honestly felt more like a sidekick to Steve most of the time; that whole scene at the gala between Steve and Dr. Poison seemed to gratuitously shove him under the spotlight. I liked the movie, but a podcast review pointed out something interesting: with the exception of Hestia, there were no mention Greek goddesses. In hindsight, you would think Athena, the goddess of wisdom and war strategy, the literal opposite of Ares in terms of temperament and morality, would have gotten her name dropped at least once...
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Jun 18, 2017 13:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Maybe you shouldn't have used Nolan movies as a reference point for good movies. Like WW, they're incredibly overrated pop art. "Overrated" = "Ugh, these plebes keep liking this thing I don't like." Quick, you also have to describe it as "irrelevant". WW obviously meant something to a lot of people. It felt fresh to me, toyed with some different ideas. I liked the smaller scale (even though it had Greek gods, it was about a chemical weapon in a human war). Maybe it's not a master feminist subversion of the entire genre, but it was different enough to make a difference. Even if you think WW is overrated, it certainly feels much different than the JL trailer. From the trailer (I could be wrong), JL looks like the same samey joyless slog we've been getting since Avengers became the go-to template you're legally required to follow unless you're Deadpool. Apparently JL is going to be about an ensemble of wise-cracking heroes trying to stop a cosmic evil from sending shock troops to Earth to steal the All-Powerful So are you saying Justice League looks like better pop art than Wonder Woman or did you just see the Someone Complimented Nolan Signal in the sky and deployed to set the record straight for all us imbeciles who thought Dark Knight was pretty good?
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Jun 18, 2017 15:25
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mary had a little clam posted:"Overrated" = "Ugh, these plebes keep liking this thing I don't like." Quick, you also have to describe it as "irrelevant". I have seen maybe a single teaser for Justice League, so you're jumping the gun a bit. You're going on about what WW "obviously meant" and what it "felt" like, which seems like waffling, to be honest. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 15:28
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I have seen maybe a single teaser for Justice League, so you're jumping the gun a bit. Why are you such a miserable gently caress about everything
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Jun 18, 2017 15:48
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This is the weirdest argument because I vehemently disagree with 50% of each posters points and they're both being so obnoxious that I want to jump in but I don't know whose side to take
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Jun 18, 2017 15:56
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OldTennisCourt posted:Why are you such a miserable gently caress about everything June 10th, 2017 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the creative practices of a single movie studio, but let me explain what all of this means to me. My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when there was no bondage in Wonder Woman tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. It tore away my ability to respect anything, and it tore away my ability to feel human.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:June 10th, 2017 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the creative practices of a single movie studio, but let me explain what all of this means to me. I mean, cool joke and all, but it still doesn't explain why you complain and act miserable in like 99.99% of threads you participate in.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:05
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Spooky WW1 angels! Would have been cool if the film acknowledged or referenced this in someway, which would have made an easy entry to coin Diana's "Angel" nickname from Steve. teagone fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 16:05
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Guy A. Person posted:This is the weirdest argument because I vehemently disagree with 50% of each posters points and they're both being so obnoxious that I want to jump in but I don't know whose side to take Just ask yourself if your life will be in any way improved by participating in that argument. The answer will reveal itself.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:09
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Phylodox posted:Just ask yourself if your life will be in any way improved by participating in that argument. You always have my back Phylo
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Jun 18, 2017 16:11
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That was the first DC movie I've actually watched from start to finish from the murderverse, and it was pretty good. Equal to the other good ones in some ways, though I think at the end she should have imprisoned Ares in something that needed to be built up first rather than just kill him. I'm tried of heroes winning by punching the bad guy. At least it wasn't a blue light going to the sky, so that was an improvement. I've no confidence in the Justice League movie though. I was surprised to see Zack Synder wrote this one, but I fear his finger prints will be still too much muddying the picture still.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:28
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OldTennisCourt posted:I mean, cool joke and all, but it still doesn't explain why you complain and act miserable in like 99.99% of threads you participate in. What did you think about Wonder Woman, the movie? I thought it was disappointing, since it follows in the footsteps of Snyder's comic movies, but lacks their wonderful visual power and tactility, and their always surprisingly convincing gravitas. I really have no idea what the movie set out to do thematically. Comstar posted:I've no confidence in the Justice League movie though. I was surprised to see Zack Synder wrote this one, but I fear his finger prints will be still too much muddying the picture still. Zack Snyder almost tainted the movie.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:29
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Comstar posted:I've no confidence in the Justice League movie though. I was surprised to see Zack Synder wrote this one, but I fear his finger prints will be still too much muddying the picture still. Well, he should stop putting his fingers on the camera lens.
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Jun 18, 2017 16:29
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He's a professional photographer. He would never do such a thing. This slander needs to stop!
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Jun 18, 2017 18:28
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There are at least four credited contributor's to Wonder Woman's script, with Allan Heinberg being fully credited with the screenplay. According to the producer...quote:“Really early on, before Patty came on the project, we put our toe in the water with two writers. They took completely different approaches on the material—one was the Crimean War and one was World War I, but a completely different World War I experience. We had quite a Writers Guild arbitration with a number of writers because we had a lot of writers, and then there were the preceding writers and the other incarnations of the development of Wonder Woman. But for our Wonder Woman we didn’t like the ultimate take on those scripts, even though they’re talented guys, and Zack [Snyder] and Allan Heinberg then collaborated on a story. We had a different director on at that time, and that director—which was OK’d by the studio—brought a number of writers on. We had more writers working with—everybody had knowledge because you can’t do it with the Writers Guild without telling everybody what you’re doing and everybody has to be OK—but we had more writers working at the same time than I’ve ever done. In the history of all the movies that I’ve done, it never worked out that way before.” quote:“While there are things that most of [the other writers] contributed that are in the script, there wasn’t anybody who ended up making such a contribution that they were able to get a credit. A guy by the name of Jason Fuchs got the third position in the ‘Story By’ so it’s Zack Snyder, Allan Heinberg, and Jason Fuchs, but Allan Heinberg got the full screenplay credit. Even though after he wasn’t able to finish working—he had to go back to the TV series that he was working on—Geoff Johns and Patty did a tremendous amount of collaboration. But again based on the rules they weren’t allowed to get any credit, but they did a lot of writing that stuck. So that’s the long-winded version of the answer being that we had a basic arc of a story, but scene to scene it really came together when Patty got involved.” quote:“One of the great things that came with Patty was this great use of Diana’s naiveté from living such a sheltered life on Themyscira. So even though she ends up […] becoming a fighter, she’s still pretty sheltered because she’s never been off the island. So she’s got no life experience really. When she meets a man for the first time that gives you great potential humor, and when she goes off the island there’s great potential humor just in her sense of what life is like and her finding out what life is like in man’s world. So a lot of the humor of the movie, or the circumstances, was pulled out by Patty.” And I've read enough of Geoff Johns and Allan Heinberg to be able to pick out specific scenes, ideas, and dialogue that was probably written by them. (If I had to guess, most of Steve Trevor and his crew is from Heinberg, with bits of Johns sprinkled in. His status as a spy, his go-getter but deprecating demeanor is very reminiscent of Heinberg characters. And Charlie might as well be a Grey's Anatomy storyline) (The ice cream scene was taken directly from Johns' comics. The scene of Steve using the lasso on himself is also Johns.) So, tldr, I have no idea what Zack Snyder ultimately contributed to this film in its finished state...but, going directly by a producer's accounts, it would be kinda overstating Snyder's involvement to say he "wrote this one" considering the amount of hands in the pie. But hey, who knows, for all I know he wrote everything except the scenes I mentioned! Equeen posted:I liked the movie, but a podcast review pointed out something interesting: with the exception of Hestia, there were no mention Greek goddesses. In hindsight, you would think Athena, the goddess of wisdom and war strategy, the literal opposite of Ares in terms of temperament and morality, would have gotten her name dropped at least once... BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 18:33
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Houston Sharp's paintings of the Amazons' history.            Two unused images that further illustrate the betrayal and enslavement of the Amazons by mankind. I was glad that the event was mentioned in the film; it's a pretty pivotal moment in the Amazons' history and culture. (For those wondering, the bracelets that all the Amazons wear are meant to signify their time spent in slavery and their vow to never let that happen again.)  
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Jun 18, 2017 18:53
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Very Grand Manner.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:03
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those paintings are cool and all but what if they were in color?
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Jun 18, 2017 19:09
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Equeen posted:I liked the movie, but a podcast review pointed out something interesting: with the exception of Hestia, there were no mention Greek goddesses. In hindsight, you would think Athena, the goddess of wisdom and war strategy, the literal opposite of Ares in terms of temperament and morality, would have gotten her name dropped at least once... Here's what I took from that: the Gods, with the exception of Ares and Diana, were sexless. Zeus created Man, which is why Zeus's child Ares could then be male. Zeus later created the Amazons, which is why Zeus's child Diana could be female.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:10
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:But the level of betrayal I felt when there was no bondage in Wonder Woman tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. It tore away my ability to respect anything, and it tore away my ability to feel human. I get this is a joke, but Ares did wrap her in a metal sheet she had trouble escaping.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:13
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Something I haven't seen discussed is that, similarly to 300, Diana is the one telling the story. In her depiction, Steve is a "good guy" and the Germans are the "bad guys." Stripping away the biases in her depiction of events, it becomes clear that what makes her so dangerous as the new god of war is her indoctrination by the Amazons, which leads her to rationalize her intervention in human history as a quest for justice and love. Diana is proactive--whoever stands in her way either gets yelled at or cut down. Several times we see her enjoying fighting (in contrast, Superman seems uncomfortable with fighting, and his moments of fun come from flying or being with Lois). Ares operates in the background, having lost much of his power in the fight with Zeus. Likely, he understood this and went along with the plan for replacement. After Diana rejects his vision of a world without war, he activates her divine powers so that war will never end on Earth or anywhere else (in BvS, she proudly proclaims that she's "killed things from other worlds before"). The reveal that Diana is a living weapon turns out to be accurate.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:41
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I'm not a comic book nerd so maybe my take is completely wrong, but the way I see it was that Diana was brought up her entire life in a warrior culture and was was taught that he people's sole purpose is to be warriors and to defend human kind so it would make sense that she enjoys battle. Superman was forced into his role as a protector of humanity in a "with great power comes great responsibility sense". His parents were scientists, not warriors. Also, I came across these posters for WW online. I don't know if the were made by Warner Bros. or fan made stuff but I thought they were pretty cool.    
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Jun 18, 2017 19:58
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I believe you'll find his parents were farmers
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Jun 18, 2017 20:03
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BrianWilly posted:So, tldr, I have no idea what Zack Snyder ultimately contributed to this film in its finished state...but, going directly by a producer's accounts, it would be kinda overstating Snyder's involvement to say he "wrote this one" considering the amount of hands in the pie. But hey, who knows, for all I know he wrote everything except the scenes I mentioned! Rumor has it that Snyder was the one who convinced Jenkins to keep the WW1 setting for the film. So if true, I'd say he had a pretty important role on the movie being what it is. quote:You can thank Brian Azzarello for that. He's the Wonder Woman writer who obliterated every single positive female influence for Diana during the 2010s and replaced them with male power influences like Zeus and Ares. This has since been corrected in the comics, but since this film was made during that era, I suppose DC felt obligated at the time to take cues from his run, which was dumb of them. What the hell are you talking about? On Azzarello's run Zeus is not only absent but is constantly remembered by the other gods as deadbeat father that did nothing right. Ares is a washed out drunk that can't get the motivation to do anything beyond drinking and is more than happy to pass the god of war mantle to Diana. Other than Hera -and she goes through some great character development over the 36 issues the run lasts- the goddesses that show up are way more sympathetic and useful than their male counterparts. To not mention that the ultimate villain of the run is an epitome of all of men worst characteristics and a woman (Zola) is the only unambiguously good character in the run.
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Jun 18, 2017 20:09
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DeimosRising posted:I believe you'll find his parents were farmers  Still, my overall point was that he wasn't raised as a warrior like Diana was.
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Jun 18, 2017 20:10
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Space Fish posted:I get this is a joke, but Ares did wrap her in a metal sheet she had trouble escaping. Yeah but Dawn from The Office didn't get spanked by sexy circus women dressed in animal print bodysuits and neither did she pistol whip anyone. #NotMyEttaCandy  
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Jun 18, 2017 20:17
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Golden Age Wonder Woman was something special
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Jun 18, 2017 20:20
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:What the hell are you talking about? Zeus, Ares, and Hephaestus specifically give her powers, training, and tools in Azzarello's now-retconned run. No goddesses were involved whatsoever, in sharp contrast to...literally every Wonder Woman origin at the time. The idea carries over into the film, to the point that people are wondering why no goddesses are even mentioned other than Hestia while every piece of Diana's powers can be sourced to ultimate male god Zeus. That is thanks to Azzarello's story and the filmmakers for deciding to follow up on it.
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Jun 18, 2017 20:31
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Diana, whose name is similar to Adonai, initially appears to represent a neo Old Testament war god. As Yahweh and Zeus were storm gods, Diana inherits lightning powers. In the final battle, she embraces the New Testament view that love will save everyone, and she forms an electric cross in the sky, yet her actions are hypocritically full of bloodshed. Her superhero uniform is battle armor. Her link with humanity is a dead man whose imagery she cherishes. She leads humanity in modern-day wars for alleged humanitarian reasons. She shrugs her shoulders and accepts that mankind will do whatever it wants instead of educating humanity through character refinement (Da'at Torah). The film effectively acts as a Jewish critique of Christianity.
Toady fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 21:18
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Toady posted:Diana, whose name is similar to Adonai, initially appears to represent a neo Old Testament war god. As Yahweh and Zeus were storm gods, Diana inherits lightning powers. In the final battle, she embraces the New Testament view that love will save everyone, and she forms an electric cross in the sky, yet her actions are hypocritically full of bloodshed. Her superhero uniform is battle armor. Her link with humanity is a dead man whose imagery she cherishes. She leads humanity in modern-day wars for alleged humanitarian reasons. She shrugs her shoulders and accepts that mankind will do whatever it wants instead of educating humanity through character refinement (Da'at Torah). The film effectively acts as a Jewish critique of Christianity. Well, the screenplay was written by a gay Jewish man, so 
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Jun 18, 2017 23:04
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i find it kind of weird seeing people distinguish ww as wildly different to mos/bvs(usually in saying that ww is good at those two aren't), there's a lot of aping of snyder's style and you can suss out some broad themes about idealist protagonists clashing with the cynical world around them and the people who would revel in it and raising the question of whether a world like that deserves saving or if what the world 'deserves' should influence doing the right thing in the first place was it really just the quips or what e: also man it's almost a bummer that ares died because him and lex could have some fun conversations about either man or god being greedy selfish shits Brother Entropy fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 23:48
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