D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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Reene: Aug 26, 2005

User0015 posted:

Agreed. It's pretty absurd to think women are capable of being evil in any way, or even more ridiculous, capable of running a civilization.

haha good one

wait a minute, this isn't grogs.txt

# ? Jun 19, 2017 01:04

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# ? May 14, 2024 23:01

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Darwinism posted:

The marketing of 5E is basically a love letter to the kind of people that want Drow to always and forever be discriminated against, because it's the accumulated fluff (that is pretty strongly influenced by real-world racist [and let's be honest misogynist too, because naturally the most evil in Drow-ness comes from WOMEN WHO WANT TOO MUCH HOW DARE THEY] ideas).

Sorry but Drow own and the bad thing is that there aren't more matriarchal societies period, not that the drow are an evil one.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 03:06

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

hey quick question

so i'm a hunter ranger. i have the following damage rolls

- 2 attacks
- hunter's mark (if applicable)
- colossus slayer (if wounded)

if i'm attacking a favored enemy, do i get the +4 bonus (at level 6) to all of the rolls, or just the attack?

edit: the damage bonus is worded as such in the UA:

quote:

Your bonus to damage rolls against all your favored enemies increases to +4

Business Gorillas fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jun 19, 2017

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:16

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

Business Gorillas posted:

hey quick question

so i'm a hunter ranger. i have the following damage rolls

- 2 attacks
- hunter's mark (if applicable)
- colossus slayer (if wounded)

if i'm attacking a favored enemy, do i get the +4 bonus (at level 6) to all of the rolls, or just the attack?

Let's say you have 5 DEX and are attacking with a Longbow. Both attacks (normal + Extra Attack) are against your Favored Enemy, and you also cast Hunter's Mark on it as a Bonus Action beforehand.

Assuming both hit, your damage rolls would be:

1d8+1d6+5+4
1d8+1d6+5+4+1d8 (adding Colossus Slayer on the second attack, assuming the enemy was at full HP for the first hit)

Your bonuses, both FE and HM, apply to each individual damage roll. Except for Colossus Slayer, which only works once per turn (but note that it's per Turn, so you can use it out of your own turn through Reactions for a total of twice per Round).

Is that clear?

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:27

Reclaimer: Sep 3, 2011; Pierced through the heart
but never killed

mango sentinel posted:

Sorry but Drow own and the bad thing is that there aren't more matriarchal societies period, not that the drow are an evil one.

Iunno, it's kinda weird that one of the few matriarchies in Faerun runs a society based on rape and murder (and has several literal Men's Rights Activists factions portrayed as heroic resistance movements)

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:30

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

Reclaimer posted:

Iunno, it's kinda weird that one of the few matriarchies in Faerun runs a society based on rape and murder (and has several literal Men's Rights Activists factions portrayed as heroic resistance movements)

You sure are reading alot in to this

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:43

Hello Sailor: May 3, 2006; we're all mad here

ElGroucho posted:

You sure are reading alot in to this

If Ed Greenwood was involved, it's not exactly a stretch.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 04:59

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Last I checked Male Drow are just as horrible as Female Drow.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:07

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

subtext is for italians and communists

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:10

8one6: May 20, 2012; When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

The only cool thing about Drow are the spider centaur monsters.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:11

Reene: Aug 26, 2005

Drow can be cool but to pretend they aren't rooted in some seriously racist, sexist bullshit is to be oblivious, willfully or not.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:16

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

Reene posted:

Drow can be cool but to pretend they aren't rooted in some seriously racist, sexist bullshit is to be oblivious, willfully or not.

Pray tell, should Black Magic be referred to as Dark Magic to make it less offensive?

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:23

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

I call it the Shadow Weave

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:25

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Conspiratiorist posted:

Pray tell, should Black Magic be referred to as Dark Magic to make it less offensive?

i too believe subtext was something that didn't exist before tumblr

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:26

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Reene posted:

Drow can be cool but to pretend they aren't rooted in some seriously racist, sexist bullshit is to be oblivious, willfully or not.

Orcs are brutal savages defined by their menacing physiques and "unusual" skin color who until recent editions were notably rape-y. D&D lore is frequently built from disgusting poo poo but I will note they've been slowly excising the more problematic aspects of things. I'm not excusing that stuff, I'm just saying D&D has been slowly moving away from those bad origins while trying to keep the more interesting aspects.

Every time Monster Envy tries to agree with me I have a momentary thought of "oh no I did a bad opinion!" :cheeky:

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:35

Gumdrop Larry: Jul 30, 2006

Did drow at any point ever really receive justification for being extremely dark skinned in spite of living in environments devoid of light which should generally result in a lack of pigmentation? Is it literally just black = evil, real-world racial connotations aside? Really in thinking about it if drow were shockingly pale or almost bioluminescent it would be freaky as hell and a cool basic subversion of the idea that something all bright and stereotypically angelic looking isn't necessarily good.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:37

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

Skellybones posted:

I call it the Shadow Weave

I've been a professional shadow puppeteer for 5 years and I find that allusion highly offensive.

Cease to Hope posted:

i too believe subtext was something that didn't exist before tumblr

I prefer not to attribute to racism what is easily attributed to ethnocentrism. Good elves live high up in trees and spires and are fair skinned because that's the author's ethnic conception of beauty plus classical cultural baggage that goes all the way to nobility being fairier because they lit. don't go out to work the fields and therefore don't get tanned.

And then you make evil, opposite elves, who therefore live underground and are the opposite color (obsidian black).

There's racism everywhere you look in DnD settings because of how hacks love to insert thinly veiled versions of their perception of existing and past cultures, but loving black elves need only apply to the most post-modernist "death of the author" approaches to subtext analysis.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:39

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Gumdrop Larry posted:

Did drow at any point ever really receive justification for being extremely dark skinned in spite of living in environments devoid of light which should generally result in a lack of pigmentation?

they're svartalfr. dark elves were a thing before d&d came along.

Conspiratiorist posted:

I prefer not to attribute to racism what is easily attributed to ethnocentrism.

lol

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:49

NeurosisHead: Jul 22, 2007; NONONONONONONONONO

Gumdrop Larry posted:

Did drow at any point ever really receive justification for being extremely dark skinned in spite of living in environments devoid of light which should generally result in a lack of pigmentation? Is it literally just black = evil, real-world racial connotations aside? Really in thinking about it if drow were shockingly pale or almost bioluminescent it would be freaky as hell and a cool basic subversion of the idea that something all bright and stereotypically angelic looking isn't necessarily good.

Yeah nope. When the drow went bad and were tossed out of Arvandor they were cursed with dark skin because elves are fair skinned. Nothing questionable in that myth at all.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:49

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

NeurosisHead posted:

Yeah nope. When the drow went bad and were tossed out of Arvandor they were cursed with dark skin because elves are fair skinned. Nothing questionable in that myth at all.

the origin of FR drow is literally the curse of ham? that's amazing

# ? Jun 19, 2017 05:51

bookkeeper: Jul 14, 2010; it means "the kapital"

In theory you could make an argument for environmental camouflage, like polar bears. The actual origin story, though...

# ? Jun 19, 2017 06:02

Reene: Aug 26, 2005

mango sentinel posted:

Orcs are brutal savages defined by their menacing physiques and "unusual" skin color who until recent editions were notably rape-y. D&D lore is frequently built from disgusting poo poo but I will note they've been slowly excising the more problematic aspects of things. I'm not excusing that stuff, I'm just saying D&D has been slowly moving away from those bad origins while trying to keep the more interesting aspects.

Every time Monster Envy tries to agree with me I have a momentary thought of "oh no I did a bad opinion!"

Yeah it's definitely a vein running through D&D. Hell a lot of it (the orc thing in particular) came from the source material of source materials, Tolkien himself, so it's not surprising a lot of it lingers on.

That they're edging very, very slowly away from it doesn't change that it's a thing though. Drow don't wear leopard skins or have human skin-tones anymore but they still started as evil matriarchal dominatrices with brown skin. The settings as-given still tend to be eurocentric, white, and patriarchal, or are assumed to be so unless stated otherwise. And so on.

Conspiratiorist posted:

I prefer not to attribute to racism what is easily attributed to ethnocentrism.

Hahaha are you real

# ? Jun 19, 2017 06:08

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Gumdrop Larry posted:

Did drow at any point ever really receive justification for being extremely dark skinned in spite of living in environments devoid of light

They were driven underground. (By the elves.)

NeurosisHead posted:

Yeah nope. When the drow went bad and were tossed out of Arvandor they were cursed with dark skin because elves are fair skinned. Nothing questionable in that myth at all.

Cease to Hope posted:

the origin of FR drow is literally the curse of ham? that's amazing

This isnt the case, but its not worth effortposting over either. Google through some FR wikis.

OTOH this same topic comes up once a year, so heres a chunk of extreme nerd history:

quote:

History

Drow descended from dark elves,[13] (��Ssri-tel-quessir in old Elven) and their nations were Ilythiir and Miyeritar. Ilythiir was one of the most powerful elven realms.

Dawn Age

The first connection between Lolth and the drow, at that time dark elves, started with Corellon Larethian decreeing that Araushnee, his wife and later known as Lolth, should call the fate of the dark elves her own.[81] This was clearly done without the consent of the dark elves themselves. The first elves, among them tribe ilythiiri, who came to Toril didn't have any idea, that something like an elven pantheon even existed.[82]

Time of Dragons

Elves came to Toril around -27000 DR. Among these elves, the Ilythiiri tribe differed from all others in that they had higher ambitions than living in small tribes, they founded the first elven state Ilythiir,[83] and the faith of Vhaeraun became the main religion there.[84] The church of Vhaeraun, and to some extent the minority following Ghaunadaur, were the driving forces behind ensuring power and safety as well as their territorial expansion throughout southern Faer�n.[85] An even smaller minority of the worshippers ofEilistraee opposed her brother's.[86]

The moon elf Kethryllia Amarillis, a devout follower of Corellon Larethian,[87] drew Lolth�s interest to Toril in -24400 DR, which led to the subsequent introduction of her faith in Ilythiir.[88] This was the first contact between Lolth and the dark elves.
First FloweringEdit

After the Time of Dragons, a period of time called the First Flowering, the golden time of the elves started.

First Flowering - Ilythiir

After the Time of Dragons, several elven states were founded. While exceptions with skirmishes existed,[88] overall the relationships between Ilythiir and the newer states were of peaceful nature.[36]

This changed when Seldarine-following elves came up with the idea to create a dark elf-free haven.[89] They decided to ignore historical warnings and cast the First Sundering in -17600 DR,[88] the intervention of their gods[90]managed to drop the scope of collateral damage to �ripping apart the continent�.[88] These casualties destroyed most of the church of Vhaeraun�s membership,[91] Vhaeraun�s salvage efforts to bring Ilythiir�s citizens into his church were undermined by Eilistraee�s. This had the effect, that the field was left open for Lolth and Ghaunadaur to take.[92] This was how Lolth became the major deity of the dark elves in Ilythiir and the start of her machinations that led to the Crown Wars.[85]
First Flowering - MiyeritarEdit

Miyeritar, a dark elf-wood elf realm was founded in -18800 DR.[88] Dark elves supported and wanted a part in the casting of the First Sundering but weren�t seen as equals by the others, especially by sun elves, and the other subraces joined in barring them from the casting the magic.[89]

Crown Wars

The Crown Wars were a series of wars between elven nations and resulted in the end of the golden time of the elves.

First Crown War - Miyeritar

The First Crown War was between Aryvandaar and Miyeritar. The start was a peaceful attempt by Aryvandaar to annex Miyeritar by using their royalty�s claim based on their ancestry.[93] This degenerated into a violent invasion in -12000 DR which ended with Miyeritar�s defeat in -11800 DR.[94] By -11300 DR, any resistance movements against the occupants were pacified[93] and the nation of Miyeritar was no more.[94] While it wasn�t clear, whether these happened during the actual war or during the resistance movement, factions from Illefarn joined forces with Aryvandaar to subjugate Miyeritar and factions in Miyeritar accepted aid from those from Ilythiir under the pretense of "dark elf kinship".[95]

Second Crown War - Ilythiir

The Second Crown War was kickstarted by Ilythiir. The nation was enraged over the occupation of Miyeritar started retaliatory attacks against Aryvandaar's allies,starting with Orishaar, an ally and major trade partner of Aryvandaar, then Sy�rpiir.[94]

At some point around -11500 DR,[96] Aryvandaar started what Ilythiir's leadership believed to be a genocidal campaign against Ilythiir's citizens. In their plight, Geirildin Sethomiir, llythiir�s coronal, made a decision. He summoned Wendonai,[97] a balor under Lolth�s employment, and bought power from the demon and with it from Lolth. The nation�s nobility followed their royalty�s example and bought power from other fiendish patrons.[98] Until the Fourth Crown War, apart from Lolth, Ghaunadaur, Kiaransalee and Vhaeraun provided the dark elves similar help, Eilistraee didn't.[36] This arrangement proved itself effective. Apart from surviving, Ilythiir had enough power to launch attacks against Aryvandaar�s supporters. Thearnytaar and Eiell�r, who allied themselves and invaded Ilythiir with help from Keltomir and Shantel Othreier, were destroyed in turn by the dark elves.[94]

Ilythiir�s course of action earned the dark elves the title dhaerow, traitor in elven, though it wasn�t very clear against what.[98] They never were on the side of the other elven realms� and even less on the Seldarine�s. (see upper sections of History) This term dhaeraow became later the term drow to describe the subrace.[36]

Dark Disaster - Miyeritar

The Third Crown War was a war between Aryvandaar and Shantel Othreier between -10900 DR and -10600 DR. 100 years after the war ended, the Dark Disaster struck Miyeritar, destroying the part that became the High Moor and killing the citizens there.[99] Miyeritar had already been annexed by Aryvandaar at that time, and many citizens of Miyeritar had already fled towards Illefarn beforehand for safety, although countless innocent lives were lost to the cataclysm.[100] Aryvandaar was accused to have destroyed an already conquered Miyeritar for an unknown reason. The victors were the one to write history, and the Vyshaan therefore pointed at the high mages on Miyeritar as the real culprits, accusing them of having tried to harness corrupt magic for resistance sake, accidentally destroying their country in the process.[100][101] Some believed that there was never any kind of evidence to frame Aryvandaar[102] but Malkizid, a fallen Solar, had already become the patron of the Vyshaan and started to manipulate their actions, and a camapaign of assassinations had decimated the High Mages of Miyeritar by the time of the Dark Disaster, therefore excluding the dark elves from having any responsibility of the tragic event.[100]

Among those who remained in Miyeritar was a large part of the church of Eilistraee. The Dark Disaster killed them, causing Eilistraee�s influence to virtually collapse for millennia.[103] Interestingly, Miyeritar was a dark elf-wood elf country located on the High Moor and Misty Forest.[88]

Ilythiir was enraged and accused Aryvandaar for the Dark Disaster and the Fourth Crown War started as a retaliatory assault on Aryvandaar.[100]

Fourth Crown War - Ilythiir

As mentioned above, the Fourth Crown War started as a retaliatory assault on Aryvandaar.[100] While the scope wasn�t clear, survivors from Miyeritar joined forces with Ilythiir.[95] They destroyed Shantel Othreier,[100] by that point conquered by Aryvandaar. They were so successful that the elves started to pray towards their gods for the destruction of Ilythiir, the prayers were answered.[104]

Corellon Larethian�s magic, channeled through his clerics, turned all dark elves into drow.[104] By that point some dark elves modified their bodies, and were thus not changed. The entire subrace of dark elves was turned into drow, including the survivors from Miyeritar. Elves believed it was done as collateral damage due to the elves not properly understanding elven high magic.[105]

The drow then were forced to leave the surface into the Underdark, the event was called the Descent of the drow.[104] �Being cursed for being successful� was the drow�s sentiment and justification for their hatred on the surface elves and on the Seldarine, especially Corellon.[14]
After the DescentEdit

After the so-called "Descent",[106] drow lived for time as nomads and scavengers, more precisely like animals, but managed to gather themselves and founded in -9600 DR the cities Telantiwar and Guallidurth.[36] The drow in Telantiwar also seized the gold dwarf cavern of Bhaerynden for themselves around -9000 DR. The drow there, then began fighting amongst themselves, resulting in a great magical explosion that destroyed this large cavern, forming the Great Rift.[36]

# ? Jun 19, 2017 06:37

Reclaimer: Sep 3, 2011; Pierced through the heart
but never killed

MonsterEnvy posted:

Last I checked Male Drow are just as horrible as Female Drow.

Nah Bregan D'aerthe are pretty chill. They even let a girl in once, too (Unfortunately Drizzt was confused and killed her).

Authors can't figure out what the gently caress they wanna do with Vhaeraun and his followers but half the time they're plucky rebels who just wanna live free of The Woman.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 06:41

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Drow are hard-working Morlocks who have the worst lives out of everyone in the Realms short of, I don't know, the people who were standing directly underneath a Netherese city in -339 DR.

The other elves are Eloi.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 07:53

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

Gumdrop Larry posted:

Did drow at any point ever really receive justification for being extremely dark skinned in spite of living in environments devoid of light which should generally result in a lack of pigmentation? Is it literally just black = evil, real-world racial connotations aside? Really in thinking about it if drow were shockingly pale or almost bioluminescent it would be freaky as hell and a cool basic subversion of the idea that something all bright and stereotypically angelic looking isn't necessarily good.

The Mystara/Known World drow equivalents are pale. They're also not eeeevul, just kind of bitter about being stuck underground IIRC. And they worship radiation.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 08:21

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

A related problem to things in the Players Hand Book being actually racist is being culturally specific without the book doing a good enough job of explaining the cultural circumstances that create the rule. Like, R.A.W. every half Orc can swing an axe - every single one of `em. Baby found on a battlefield? Then raised in comfortable quasi-adoption by a human officer regretful of the near-genocide perpetuated after the last Orc war? Bam, that Orc picks up an axe one day and it feels great. You can say the same thing about every weapon bonus the races have - they're all clearly a part of some cultural upbringing/mandatory training, but the rule book only ever really hints at what setting the game should be in.

Basically, the PHB doesn't do a good enough job of balancing "we're going to keep this generic so that you can make your own world" and "really all this is set in Forgotten Realms or something, so bear that in mind." I've been reading Shadow of the Demon lord lately and having everything in that book be attributable to the specific setting detailed in that book is a huge help even though I won't be using that exact setting, it still provides context for why things are they way they are, much more so than D&D tends to.

Like, the next PHB could have one skinny chapter of a few pages, detailing whatever setting they're obviously basing the book on, the sort of neat thing they put in the back, like how 5th has a cool and helpful list of Pantheons to consider.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 13:13

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

I think that D&D's implied setting is supposed to reduce most ideas down to easily recognizable chunks based partly on ideas people already have in their head. Orcs are easy to drop into a game because people hear orc and immediately know what it means, which is why you get poo poo like 'all orcs know how to use axes'. If you just take 'orc' out of context of their implied culture, what have you actually got? D&D needs those elements to make their races worthwhile because on their own they don't carry a lot of weight.

Now if you were willing to explore the actual biology of other fantasy races and divorce it from their mental capabilities or culture, you'd have something cool, but it wouldn't be D&D. Because D&D relies on shorthand to get its point across. Which, I mean, sounds pretty racist to me. Whether or not it maps directly to real world racism is anybody's guess, but I'd put my money on, 'probably, sometimes.'

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:23

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Tieflings get a bonus to charisma because everyone's lovely towards them, so they try extra hard to get popular and end up above average I guess.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:25

Krinkle: Feb 9, 2003; Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts

I think Tieflings are supposed to promise to only use that charisma for intimidation. You gotta lean in and go oogedy boogedy to get what you want.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:32

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

Drow are lame as a player race, but it has nothing to do with social implications and more to do with how goddamn played out they are

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:44

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Krinkle posted:

I think Tieflings are supposed to promise to only use that charisma for intimidation. You gotta lean in and go oogedy boogedy to get what you want.

also demons are good at lying and devils are good at negotiating contracts and the devil is good at playing the fiddle

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:58

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

What are yugoloths good at?

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:59

sleepy.eyes: Sep 14, 2007; Like a pig in a chute.

Jack B Nimble posted:

A related problem to things in the Players Hand Book being actually racist is being culturally specific without the book doing a good enough job of explaining the cultural circumstances that create the rule. Like, R.A.W. every half Orc can swing an axe - every single one of `em. Baby found on a battlefield? Then raised in comfortable quasi-adoption by a human officer regretful of the near-genocide perpetuated after the last Orc war? Bam, that Orc picks up an axe one day and it feels great. You can say the same thing about every weapon bonus the races have - they're all clearly a part of some cultural upbringing/mandatory training, but the rule book only ever really hints at what setting the game should be in.

Basically, the PHB doesn't do a good enough job of balancing "we're going to keep this generic so that you can make your own world" and "really all this is set in Forgotten Realms or something, so bear that in mind." I've been reading Shadow of the Demon lord lately and having everything in that book be attributable to the specific setting detailed in that book is a huge help even though I won't be using that exact setting, it still provides context for why things are they way they are, much more so than D&D tends to.

Like, the next PHB could have one skinny chapter of a few pages, detailing whatever setting they're obviously basing the book on, the sort of neat thing they put in the back, like how 5th has a cool and helpful list of Pantheons to consider.

What book are you looking at? It never even uses the word axe in their writeup. As for the cultural stuff and their abilities, it states that that comes from the god who created them as a race, body and soul. If everyone was made by the same creator or evolved or whatever, sure that would be more problematic, but they weren't.

e

gradenko_2000 posted:

It's actually Dwarves who are always proficient with the battleaxe, the handaxe, the light hammer, and the warhammer.

The ability is called "Dwarven Combat Training", so there's still that dissonance where if you're ... a dwarf that didn't grow up in "traditional Dwarven society", you're still going to be good at using those weapons.

Yeah, that's a fair point. But he, you can always ask the DM to houserule something...

sleepy.eyes fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jun 19, 2017

# ? Jun 19, 2017 14:59

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

It's actually Dwarves who are always proficient with the battleaxe, the handaxe, the light hammer, and the warhammer.

The ability is called "Dwarven Combat Training", so there's still that dissonance where if you're ... a dwarf that didn't grow up in "traditional Dwarven society", you're still going to be good at using those weapons.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 15:05

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Skellybones posted:

What are yugoloths good at?

filling pages nobody reads in Monster manuals II-IV

# ? Jun 19, 2017 15:27

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

3e tackles the social traits by offering substitutions, 4e offloads most social traits to a separate background trait, Pathfinder does a little bit of both. all of these are mainly in later splatbooks

the core book is making assumptions to not only grease the wheels for first-timers, but also leave questions that later splatbooks can solve.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 15:30

NeurosisHead: Jul 22, 2007; NONONONONONONONONO

ElGroucho posted:

Drow are lame as a player race, but it has nothing to do with social implications and more to do with how goddamn played out they are

I feel like every single time I've seen one since like, the 90's it's just been either a carbon copy of Drizzt or "Drizzt, but with some weapon other than 2 scimitars".

# ? Jun 19, 2017 15:31

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Our human cleric of Talos got reincarnated as a drow which led to many humorous interactions. I'd read a trilogy about their misadventures.

# ? Jun 19, 2017 15:35

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# ? May 14, 2024 23:01

Brother Entropy: Dec 27, 2009

NeurosisHead posted:

I feel like every single time I've seen one since like, the 90's it's just been either a carbon copy of Drizzt or "Drizzt, but with some weapon other than 2 scimitars".

maybe PC drows would have more potential backgrounds/personalities if wizards started writing the society of such a popular playable race better so that 'exiled from cartoonishly evil homeland' wasn't one of the few avenues to get a a drow adventurer that gels with the rest of the party

# ? Jun 19, 2017 16:22

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