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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Mister Facetious posted:They only consider it a luxury because the everyday prison experience had been crafted by "tough on crime" prison-as-retribution politicians into such a living Hell on earth. Yes, that's my point entirely.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:22
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Fans posted:Yeah it's quiet a common practice. Refusal rates are incredibly low because it's so mind numbingly tedious to be locked in a cell all day with nobody to talk too that people would prefer to work just for something to do. Solitary confinement is torture, not tedium.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:24
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NewForumSoftware posted:Who said it was? Why does it have to be a solution to poverty and wealth concentration? Can't it just be a good thing? Will it solve racism?
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Jun 19, 2017 22:29
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Ytlaya posted:edit: the "inquisitive" part was even worse than I remembered, jeez. "They seemed to have active and inquisitive minds." Did she expect their minds to be inactive or something? Yes. She specifically said she expected the African American prisoners to all be stupid because that was the prevailing explanation at the time for why we filled the prisons with black men. To her credit, she did reconsider this racist belief after interacting with them and discovering it was false, good job Hillary. Fortunately she was saved from having to consider the culpability of a racist justice system and a racist society, because she had just read a new pop sci book that provided her with a kinder gentler racist belief that black people fill the prisons because they're emotionally unintelligent and she promptly diagnosed all her slaves with this dreadful malady. Armed with this "knowledge" she went on to advocate for a brutal police state to round up and lock away these superpredators on nice safe slave plantations.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:59
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Doc Hawkins posted:Solitary confinement is torture, not tedium. God, Hiding From Goro's prison thread...  
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Jun 19, 2017 23:28
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JeffersonClay posted:Emotional intelligence is absolutely widely accepted in education and psychology. It's not innate, it's taught--environment and circumstance influence its acquisition. Google Social Emotional Learning. It's not pop-science, it's as empirically supported as any other modern educational or psychological concept. You're just wrong here. I may not have the kind of high-falutin edjumacation someone gets from picking up a pop psychology book from BordersTM bookstore and coffeeshop, but ah reckon "some conversations with the help" is not a medically supported method of measuring emotional intelligence.
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Jun 20, 2017 00:30
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steinrokkan posted:The whole "prisoners consider forced labor to be a luxury" point of view adopted by liberals is so transparently heinous. What other insights can we gain by following this thread of argumentation - concentration camp prisoners considered working at handiwork workshops a privilege, so such workshops were very humane and a proof that the Nazis had a soft side? loving hell. Yeah, it's more a statement of how bad regular prison life is than it is a statement of how good/acceptable prison labor is. It's like if you were physically torturing someone and gave them the option of going to solitary confinement instead and then used "well they prefer solitary confinement to physical torture!" as an argument that solitary confinement is okay. Or you can replace those with any other two terrible, obviously bad things. VitalSigns posted:I may not have the kind of high-falutin edjumacation someone gets from picking up a pop psychology book from BordersTM bookstore and coffeeshop, but ah reckon "some conversations with the help" is not a medically supported method of measuring emotional intelligence. Yeah, this is actually an even better point than what I mentioned. Even if emotional intelligence in the sense described was scientifically sound as a concept, that still doesn't mean it makes any sense for a layperson to look at any particular prisoner(s) and think "hmm clearly this person committed their crime because of low emotional intelligence."
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Jun 20, 2017 02:22
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VitalSigns posted:I may not have the kind of high-falutin edjumacation someone gets from picking up a pop psychology book from BordersTM bookstore and coffeeshop, but ah reckon "some conversations with the help" is not a medically supported method of measuring emotional intelligence. Wow, way to dismiss her emotional labor. Also, she had a much more rigorous and objective system than that: she tested their ability to perform their assigned tasks and sent them back to jail when they didn't follow instructions.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:34
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Also ya know the whole citing "Arkansas uses slave labor to balance the state budget!" as a point in favor of slavery, rather than "holy poo poo, Arkansas uses slave labor to balance the state budget, what the loving gently caress  " which would be the reaction of a person with a working moral compass.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:34
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"We are capitalists, that's just the way it is" -Nancy Pelosi Stick a fork in the democrat party, it's dead.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:44
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NikkolasKing posted:So this might seem like a weird and random question but i dunno where else to ask. As I am trying to get in touch with my teenage Marxist again but with more thought put into it than "communism sounds cool", I realize I'm falling pretty short in a critical area. Namely economics. I don't get economics. There are so many "schools of thought" and while reading some of the works of this Hoppe fellow makes me fairly certain that the Austrian school is not for me, that doesn't narrow it down too much. The conquest of bread by Peter Kropotkin is a good book to check out, imo.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:44
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Septic Tank Gulag posted:"We are capitalists, that's just the way it is" California Townhall: Question from an old man in the audience: Will you co-sponsor Bernie Sanders' single-payer medicare for all bill in the future? Dianne Feinstein: Not at this time. As I understand it, Bernie is calling for a complete government takeover of the healthcare industry. (AKA our donors won't let us) I agree, gently caress this party. They deserve to be steamrolled by Trump again.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:31
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Republicans are right, the government is bad. Please vote Democrat anyway tho.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUkA-5Vd3E0
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Jun 20, 2017 09:56
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Septic Tank Gulag posted:"We are capitalists, that's just the way it is" Where was this said? I don't doubt its authenticity, I'd just like to be able to cite it in future discussions. I gotta get this fellow's book. I wish they kinda talked about the Russia obsession more, though. I was watching a video with Mark Blyth earlier where he said the Democrats are too fixated on Russia instead of working on actual policy, more interest in mudslinging than actual government.
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Jun 20, 2017 12:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Where was this said? I don't doubt its authenticity, I'd just like to be able to cite it in future discussions. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-town-hall-capitalism_us_58925a53e4b070cf8b807e28 It's not QUITE as bad as the quote makes it but it's pretty much trying to appeal to everyone in typical Democrat fashion while pleasing no one like when Hillary said everyone at the DAPL protests needed to come together and be safe. Pelosi is really bad at dealing with questions she isn't prepared for (this one apparently snuck through and wasn't supposed to be asked) like when she said Obama and Hillary were the standard bearers of the party after the 2016 election. In regards to Russia I think a lot of it is that the Democrats feel deeply insulted by the Russians clowning them in such a way that all Americans should really be concerned with and are taking it up as a matter of honor. The issue is that I don't think it's something the average non-Democrat really cares about and won't win any elections for them.
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Jun 20, 2017 12:55
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Radish posted:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-town-hall-capitalism_us_58925a53e4b070cf8b807e28 Sweet, thank you for the link. And yeah, I completely agree about this being a waste of time that will hurt the Dems in the long run. When people look back at what they've heard from the Democrats in terms of ideas for the future, they'll mostly remember" Russia, Russia, Russia and RUSSIA." i wonder if it the Democrats manage to win a lot of elections next year it will be less of a Democrats victory and more of a Republican loss because people will remember Trumpcare and poo poo.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:03
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NikkolasKing posted:instead of working on actual policy I've heard that a few times in this thread. Could someone write some words on what working on policy would actually mean, or is there something I can do to help this part specifically? Sitting next to a law dictionary studying for hours doesn't sound like fun, but I'll do it if it's actually helpful.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:58
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KwegiboHB posted:I've heard that a few times in this thread. Could someone write some words on what working on policy would actually mean, or is there something I can do to help this part specifically? Sitting next to a law dictionary studying for hours doesn't sound like fun, but I'll do it if it's actually helpful. They could, you know, write a single-payer bill and have every Democratic Senator and House member endorse it But that would cost money, so lol Russians
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Jun 20, 2017 15:07
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And if 'they' don't write a single payer bill, how does one go about writing one? So that there actually is one to wave around.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:15
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Democrats have almost no power so them not working on making a extensive bill isn't that crazy right now. However Diane Feinstein still kissing medical industry rear end and Democrats ignoring the way the winds of their voters are blowing is a much bigger problem. The AHCA isn't out yet and no one knows what's in it but after it passes they need a message and a solution since people have clearly gotten tired of supporting them as the lesser of two evils. Simply going back to the ACA isn't going to work, especially when it can be totally dismantled so easily by both the SCOTUS and any Republican congresses.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:17
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KwegiboHB posted:And if 'they' don't write a single payer bill, how does one go about writing one? So that there actually is one to wave around. there are these things called pencils
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Jun 20, 2017 15:18
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KwegiboHB posted:And if 'they' don't write a single payer bill, how does one go about writing one? So that there actually is one to wave around. There actually is one that's been introduced, but Dems still aren't united in support of it: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676 'Medicare for All' Bill Reaches a Record-Breaking 104 Co-Sponsors in Congress
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Jun 20, 2017 15:20
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Radish posted:Democrats have almost no power so them not working on making a extensive bill isn't that crazy right now.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:37
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It shows how disdainful the right wing Democrats are of their voters that they won't even bother to grandstand pointlessly in a situation where they have literally nothing to lose.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:58
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twodot posted:Why isn't it crazy? They are still getting paid, they are still getting a staff. Why not expect them to do their job? I realize it won't pass right now, but if nothing else it's a cost cutting measure to write a bill this fiscal year and pass it in another. The only reason for professional politicians to not be working on this stuff is because they don't care when or if it happens. I think it's a better use of their time to campaign loudly on pie in the sky promises and then work out the details when they get into power. A real bill isn't going to really matter since no one gives a poo poo about what's actually technically in it, only how politician's decisions are going to theoretically affect them. The single payer bill they have now (if they get over themselves and rally on it instead of allowing conservative dems to oppose it) is probably just as good as something much more complicated for the purposes of getting elected in order to enact it. I'm holding out for after the AHCA passes to see if they do that because I think that if they go into 2018 and 2020 without a firm stance on providing medical care they are going to lose big regardless of how unpopular Trump is. Unless something insane happens that is going to be the biggest issue and they can't try and ask voters to read their websites about what they are going to do because they don't want to offend their lobbyists and expect to not get smoked. Unbelievably Fat Man posted:It shows how disdainful the right wing Democrats are of their voters that they won't even bother to grandstand pointlessly in a situation where they have literally nothing to lose. Yeah seriously. The fact that Booker couldn't even bring himself for a meaningless yes vote against the medical industry on something that didn't even need him to fight against is pretty telling. The lack of Democratic enthusiam is something entirely of their own making and blaming voters is a bullshit way to allow them to continue being junk.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:16
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Radish posted:I think it's a better use of their time to campaign loudly on pie in the sky promises and then work out the details when they get into power.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:19
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twodot posted:This is literally hundreds of people's full time job, I don't understand why they can't do both. "Oh, I'd love to deliver some concrete policy proposals, but I'm all tired out from tweeting"? Fair enough I just don't think it really matters that much in terms of getting elected. I'm personally more interested in them starting to actively campaign for single payer since in American politics words mean more than actions and the media is trash that wouldn't report on a boring bill while Trump makes an rear end of himself for the thousandth time; they are having trouble even getting to that level but if they wrote up real legislation it wouldn't be a bad thing. Of course if they talk a big game about it, don't write up the laws, and then suddenly can't start on it because they don't have 60 Senate seats or some such lame excuse then gently caress them. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 16:25
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How many times do the Democrats have to say "We are not progressives and do not support progressive causes" before people stop blaming Republicans for Democrats failing to pass progressive legislation?
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Jun 20, 2017 16:34
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This guy is running against Paul Ryan and wow is his ad pretty amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zAyPRbels
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Jun 20, 2017 17:04
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Rent-A-Cop posted:How many times do the Democrats have to say "We are not progressives and do not support progressive causes" before people stop blaming Republicans for Democrats failing to pass progressive legislation? The Republicans are kinda loving them right now since they are showing how easy it is to just push through stuff no matter how unpopular it is if you are united as a party in regards to a goal. Now that goal is "gently caress over everyone for upper class tax cuts" but it's becoming clear that there was little actually stopping the Democrats from doing more under the Obama presidency other than themselves and the line they needed 60 senators to do anything was a lie.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:12
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Steampunk Hitler posted:This guy is running against Paul Ryan and wow is his ad pretty amazing. Maudlin, Capra-esque crap. But hey, FUNNY MAN WITH A MUSTACHE, so BKN leftists get the giggles.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:27
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The only things worse than the Democrats are the Republicans.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:28
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Radish posted:The Republicans are kinda loving them right now since they are showing how easy it is to just push through stuff no matter how unpopular it is if you are united as a party in regards to a goal. Now that goal is "gently caress over everyone for upper class tax cuts" but it's becoming clear that there was little actually stopping the Democrats from doing more under the Obama presidency other than themselves and the line they needed 60 senators to do anything was a lie. This is really stupid "logic" that presumes it's just as easy to construct a building as it is to tear one down. It is not young Radish; it is not. "  The republicans are awful horrible monsters and the are undermining the union, destroying democratic structures, and hobbling people's faith in government, now why won't the democrats do the exact same thing  "
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Jun 20, 2017 17:39
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Told ya'll this guy was woke.  Pollyanna posted:The only things worse than the Democrats are the Republicans. 
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 17:42
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:This is really stupid "logic" that presumes it's just as easy to construct a building as it is to tear one down. It is not young Radish; it is not. I don't see a counter argument in here anywhere, did you misplace it? Why is it harder for the Democrats to pass anything when they have a majority than the Republicans? How / why is the "logic stupid"?
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Jun 20, 2017 17:49
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't see a counter argument in here anywhere, did you misplace it? Why is it harder for the Democrats to pass anything when they have a majority than the Republicans? How / why is the "logic stupid"? For example, reconciliation which only needs 50 votes, is useful to Republicans because it helps them pass a big tax cut they're pretending is a healthcare bill. Democrats used reconciliation on part of the ACA but couldn't use it on all of it because Democrats wanted to do a real (if flawed) healthcare bill rather than a tax and spending cut. Republicans can stop defending any regulation they want in court while Democrats need 60 votes in the senate to pass new legislation. Republicans can use 50 votes to undo any agency rulemaking but Democrats need 60 votes to pass stricter rules than an agency enacted.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:53
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VitalSigns posted:I may not have the kind of high-falutin edjumacation someone gets from picking up a pop psychology book from BordersTM bookstore and coffeeshop, but ah reckon "some conversations with the help" is not a medically supported method of measuring emotional intelligence. So we've moved from "phrenology" to "did not use empirically valid measurements (20 years before they were created)". I'll concede that Hillary Clinton was not a time traveler.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:10
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I dunno I think using slaves as domestic help in the 80s is kinda time travelly, at least for the US
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Jun 20, 2017 19:13
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The reason that things require 60 votes is because of Senate rules that could have been changed. Changing the Senate rules so that you couldn't hold up votes indefinitely as the minority party and then using the nuclear option to force cloture when the Republicans predictably would filibuster those changes wouldn't have mattered to any Democratic voter outside of political wonks and politicians and certainly isn't "undermining the union and destroying democratic structures." Once it became clear the Republicans were not interested in governing in good faith there was no reason to allow that to continue. The Republicans faced no sort of retribution for abusing the SCOTUS nomination procedure since they won and Senate rules that aren't even constitutional aren't worth keeping around if they are only there to hamper Democratic legislation. Like there was some absurd notion that the Republicans would respect the filibuster so it had to be kept in case the Senate flipped or that everyone in that branch of government respected the process, and then they immediately use the nuclear option in 2017. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 19:27
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