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biracial bear for uncut posted:gently caress off with the christianity in a movie about the Greek/Roman pantheon.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:13
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Jose Oquendo posted:Aaaaand another thread rendered unreadable by patented CineD bullshit. We have a separate forum for you: https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=274
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Jun 20, 2017 02:35
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McCloud posted:I did not consider the parallel there, good catch. It's pragmatic. People are already dying in war, the way Diana believes she can save them is buy killing Ares. The sooner she kills Ares, the sooner war stops, the less people overall die. If she has to kill people to get to Ares quickly? That saves more lives in the long run.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:48
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Sir Kodiak posted:How do you get from "it's about what you believe" to "the only way to Heaven is through Him"? its really simple - you decide the film is about redemption through christ, and then anything that might mean that, does. See?
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Jun 20, 2017 03:09
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Jose Oquendo posted:Aaaaand another thread rendered unreadable by patented CineD bullshit. "Unreadable"? It's not a magazine it's a discussion forum. If you don't like what you're reading discuss some new stuff. At this point the movie has been released and there is no sequel immediately in the works so mostly people are going to analyze.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:10
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biracial bear for uncut posted:gently caress off with the christianity in a movie about the Greek/Roman pantheon. Pan died when Jesus was born.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:26
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Pan was the real god of battles.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:17
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Jose Oquendo posted:Aaaaand another thread rendered unreadable by patented CineD bullshit. Why does everyone think they're SMG now
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Jun 20, 2017 05:03
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Steve Yun posted:We have a separate forum for you: Two people browsing!
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Jun 20, 2017 06:10
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Bill Dungsroman posted:Why does everyone think they're SMG now I have changed the course of things. There is no going back to the way things were. Things will never be the same again.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:47
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heaven forbid people analyse films in a film forum
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Jun 20, 2017 08:13
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well why not posted:heaven forbid people analyse films in a film forum Some people are good at it and aren't super smug and off putting.
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Jun 20, 2017 09:16
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Wonder Woman never really flies in this film, does she? I can't remember her flying in BvS either.
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Jun 20, 2017 09:31
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One thing I will say: Back when BvS came out, something that I readily believe it did very well was to set up Wrong DC Universe. By which I mean, the DCEU constructed by these films is a universe that could and should have been a lot more like a traditional DC Universe, but for some reason diverged from that status quo. And the film was actually quite clear about the reason this happened, which is that the timelines of its most mythic heroes have all been borked. BvS Batman is Wrong Batman because he came into the scene way too early. The conventional Batman story is upended because there were no other heroes around at the time to inspire him, no one to pull him from the brink after Robin's death, no surrogate family that ever replaced the one he lost. BvS Superman is likewise Wrong in his role because he came into the scene too late. Something went wrong with the timeline of this world and Superman is completely alone in this era, with no other active heroes with whom he could relate. He is thereby a middling, unexceptional Superman who holds himself too far apart from everything that he shouldn't, because it doesn't even occur to him to do otherwise. Wonder Woman...it's true that this is a less woebegone film than MoS or BvS, and it struggles a bit to reconcile its own intent with the intent it carries from BvS. But ultimately I think it still fits quite well within the Wrong DC Universe framework. This Wonder Woman came into the world a hundred years too early, earlier than even the earliest versions of her conventional timeline had ever taken place in, which was in WWII. On the one hand she handled herself pretty well considering what she was up against...on the other hand, she was forced to confront one of the more miserable wars in history with no real context or companionship aside from Steve, who then dies at least in part due to how completely unprepared she was for this experience. She then hides away from the world, having learned the lesson that "less is more" when it comes to fighting evil, and does not openly advocate for sociopolitical change the way that Wonder Woman ought to, because this is not the conventional Wonder Woman story either. In the right DC Universe...well, let's not call it "right," but maybe "functional"...anyway, in that universe, these three characters (and more besides) all come onto the scene more or less in the same time period. Which shouldn't seem like such a big deal, but we can actually see just how much the infrastructure of this fictive world gets thrown out of whack when you place the founding of these cornerstone heroes years and years apart from one another, instead of tossing each of them into a world that has other exceptional, extra-human heroes ready to inspire and fight alongside one another. From what we can tell, the end of BvS and the subsequent events of Justice League is sort of the film universe's attempt to self-correct; the more of its mythic cornerstones it can gather together in the right time and the right place, the more functional that the universe as a whole becomes...like, severed limbs re-attaching itself to become a cohesive body. I wouldn't go as far as to say that time is "broken" in this world, but it's an especially interesting notion if we consider that Geoff Johns' most recent -- and probably infamous -- comic book work is all about how important moments in time have been stolen from the DC Universe and therefore a lot of very important details of the world are not the way that they should be. Away all Goats posted:Wonder Woman never really flies in this film, does she? I can't remember her flying in BvS either.
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Jun 20, 2017 10:05
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I think I missed a line - why was Ares wanting an Armistice? Was it because he knew crazy German general is going to bomb London and hence stop it happening? If he's just waited 20 years he gets to use Nukes instead.
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Jun 20, 2017 11:17
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Film analysis is garbage. You can talk about anything and draw parallells to anything if you go abstract enough
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Jun 20, 2017 11:47
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Comstar posted:I think I missed a line - why was Ares wanting an Armistice? Was it because he knew crazy German general is going to bomb London and hence stop it happening? when he reveals himself he says he makes sure each armistice is flawed to prevent a lasting peace
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Jun 20, 2017 11:50
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He told Diana that he had been the guiding force behind all the wars that humans have fought. He gets them to sign an armistice, not a peace treaty, that he knows cannot hold. The humans then resume fighting and are therefore in an almost eternal state of war. He said that there had never been a war before with the capability to wipe out man kind until now. It think he wants the armistice as a momentary breather so both sides can rearm themselves. He doesn't want a clear victor and loser. He wants humanity to destroy itself through attrition and the conditions brought about by war.
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Jun 20, 2017 11:51
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I'm late to the party, but I saw it last week. Both me and my girlfriend loved it. Bit too heavy on the CGI in the end fight for my tastes, but it was good. Definitely a contender for being one of my favourite comic book movies. Dredd is still the undisputed master there though, that movie is 
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Jun 20, 2017 11:58
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CelticPredator posted:Some people are good at it and aren't super smug and off putting. Ughhhhhhhh
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Jun 20, 2017 13:56
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McCloud posted:its so bizarre she's murdering what amounts to innocent soldiers so she can...save the lives of the innocent soldiers? I feel like i am missing something It sort if makes sense, she's less a superhero as we know now and more a hero in the ancient mythology sense of "is able to kill like a billion dudes" and "is able to kill the baddest dude, " then she realizes that myth is just that and that killing tons of "bad guys" doesn't automatically leave only "good guys" behind or otherwise purify humanity like slaying the corruptive dragon in a fairytale would so she peaces out until BvS.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:36
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Well like someone pointed out, the one time she's "murdering" soldiers is when she is trying to liberate a town of actual innocents (i.e. noncombatants). She is also fighting against the side that invaded her land and killed her aunt, so while it is weird to maintain a lofty goal after that I don't think it's completely insane. She comes from a warrior culture and she is defending herself.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:52
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Well it's not like she decided to kill the other soldiers for fun. They're standing in her way of a goal, be it the liberation of the village or her pursuit of Ares. The only time she needlessly kills soldiers is at the end when she is acting out of blind rage.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:56
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Comstar posted:I think I missed a line - why was Ares wanting an Armistice? Was it because he knew crazy German general is going to bomb London and hence stop it happening? With the benefit of hindsight, scriptwriters can retcon history so that Ares knew that his pushing to end WW1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II#Problems_with_the_Treaty_of_Versailles ... was going to help bring about another 60+ million deaths in WW2
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Jun 20, 2017 16:00
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Which then leads into the Cold War and all the proxy wars associated with it.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:38
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Mr. Apollo posted:Which then leads into the Cold War and all the proxy wars associated with it. Hell we're still fighting at least 3 of those
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Jun 20, 2017 17:25
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Rambo 3 was dedicated the freedom fighters of Afghanistan.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:36
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Tenzarin posted:Rambo 3 was dedicated the freedom fighters of Afghanistan.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:54
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Isn't that where Voldemort hid Slytherin's locket?
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Jun 20, 2017 18:53
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Another thing I liked is that when Diana sees the German army continuing to make war even after she killed Ludendorff, she doesn't immediately then think "So, it's just the Germans who are actually bad people!" but immediately associates this warmongering nature with all of mankind.Guy A. Person posted:Ughhhhhhhh
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Jun 20, 2017 20:00
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BrianWilly posted:Truth hurts lol I don't really care if it's "true"(??) that SMg (or I guess anyone else who CP was slyly referring to) is "smug and offputting". I am more reacting to the incessant whining about smugness. Which yeah the truth of people whining about it does hurt me deep in my soul, so good observation
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Jun 20, 2017 20:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I have changed the course of things. What did you think of the film?
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Jun 20, 2017 20:24
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BrianWilly posted:Another thing I liked is that when Diana sees the German army continuing to make war even after she killed Ludendorff, she doesn't immediately then think "So, it's just the Germans who are actually bad people!" but immediately associates this warmongering nature with all of mankind.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:28
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BrianWilly posted:Truth hurts Your posting is often super smug and off-putting, so in a way it does hurt to be reminded of that.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:20
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Finally saw this, did the studio big wigs really want the no man's land scene cut? What the gently caress...
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Jun 20, 2017 21:21
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Throwdown posted:Finally saw this, did the studio big wigs really want the no man's land scene cut? What the gently caress... Yeah this is still unfathomable in the extreme. I can only hope/assume that we only hear about their really dumb suggestions/restrictions and there is obviously a ton of really smart and good studio input, because holy hell when you hear poo poo like this you just want to fire everyone and burn the rubble
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Jun 20, 2017 21:23
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I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it...
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Jun 20, 2017 21:31
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Mr. Apollo posted:She comes to that realization after the village is gassed. She starts to breakdown and tells Steve that it's not just the Germans who have been corrupted but him too. All of humanity is corrupt. It's interesting to view this moment in the light of, again, conventional Wonder Woman origins, which usually approach her understanding of humanity in the opposite direction. By which I mean, in most WW origins (and boy, there have been a lot of these in recent years  ), Diana is raised all her life to believe that men can be naturally vile and the world of men is innately corrupt. In the film though, the more overprotective Hippolyta imparts a fairy tale version of mankind to Diana, stressing their inherent goodness and de-emphasizing the fact that they...well, enslaved the Amazon race and violated every one of Diana's aunts and sisters. Right off the bat, the comic book origins of Wonder Woman mention that mankind's propensity for war is fueling Ares' rise to power, not the other way around.So when the conventional Diana leaves on her mission to save mankind, it's usually under an auspice of "Well...they might suck, but someone's gotta save them from themselves" right from the outset. And the subsequent events that follow are usually that Diana ends up meeting a kindhearted and well-meaning troupe of supporting characters from the outside world, who show her that there's a lot to love about people and that things weren't as clear as Diana's upbringing about "Man's World" might have suggested, which then gives her the wisdom she needs to truly stop Ares (or his equivalent lieutenant). Again, the film heads to this point from the opposite direction. Instead of kindly female professors and stouthearted servicemen and servicewomen who slowly cultivate her faith in people, film Diana gets attached to a gang of "liars, murderers, and thieves" who slowly chips that faith away, even as they're uplifted by her presence. By the time she faces Ares, she's not filled with wisdom and wonder and prepared to counter his rhetoric, but is shellshocked and aghast at just how depraved mankind actually is. Steve Trevor has to get his own rear end killed in order to prove to her how good people can still be (which certainly doesn't happen in the source), and then Superman has to do the same thing a century later. The conventional Diana didn't need to see someone sacrifice themselves in order to believe in love, but because her crisis of faith was so much more dramatic in this version, it required an equally-dramatic response. It's a very interesting subversion.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:38
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Throwdown posted:I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it... I can't find the article I read about it in, but apparently the studio felt it didn't accomplish anything. She just runs across an open field, she doesn't beat up the bad guys or get into a big fight with a burly soldier or anything, and therefore was a waste of time. EDIT: Here we go, direct from Jenkins. Patty Jenkins posted:I think that in superhero movies, they fight other people, they fight villains. So when I started to really hunker in on the significance of No Man's Land, there were a couple people who were deeply confused, wondering, like, “Well, what is she going to do? How many bullets can she fight?” And I kept saying, “It's not about that. This is a different scene than that. This is a scene about her becoming Wonder Woman.”
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Jun 20, 2017 21:48
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I wish someone would name and shame the execs or whoever that were confused about the No Man's Land scene and wanted it cut out of the film/replaced with something dumb. I want to revel in the schadenfreude of the internet burning them down into ash because of how goddamn stupid they were for even suggesting to remove that iconic (imo) setpiece.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:24
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