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ImpAtom posted:Please post where I said "give up." or "Stop trying" or "be sad." Would you like me to link to the multiple times I've said here or elsewhere "volunteer" or "protest" or 'get angry and treat this like a serious situation." I'm not saying anyone should give up and mean exactly the opposite. Subvisual Haze posted:We lost. It's hard to be cheered by a close loss when the net result will likely be preventable disease and death. It's not "giving up" to acknowledge this. It's entirely possible to be empathetic to the plight of those most affected by this horrific administration while also discussing the political roadmap in a semi-detached manner.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:09
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:coal and oil companies are by and large incestuous in both demeanor and a literal sense The average joe in the US is against nuclear power because of fearmongering by clueless environmental groups for the last forty years. It's just a matter of convenience that the fear of nuclear power also helps out fossil fuel industries.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:11
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Majorian posted:Wait a second, how is the loss of this one special election going to likely be preventable disease and death, where it otherwise wouldn't have been if Ossoff had won? don't you get it if ossoff had won it would have literally simultaneously shattered the AHCA while provoking congress and the president to fully fund the ACA, expand medicaid, and push for single payer and then ask the democrats for forgiveness
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Jun 21, 2017 17:11
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Skippy Granola posted:By-election = HYOOG At this point I'm just gonna ignore the thread. Any mattering will show up on the news. That's if the public doesn't become complacent with a lovely, corrupt government and stops caring.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:11
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Star Man posted:lol no they won't use the rainy day fund for ~*~reasons~*~ Total derail for this thread but that's sad to hear. The uranium thing is on point, isn't it bairoil that had the uranium and they just shut it down at some point? I actually installed some IT stuff for a little Riverton casino like, 9 years ago or so when I lived in Rawlins. I hope they are not messing with the funding model for K-12 because that was really good at the time, although WY as a whole has a really bad problem with 1. electing dipshits, 2. the youth taking off to other places because there is nothing for them and 3. the olds not wanting any growth that effects their
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Jun 21, 2017 17:12
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm requesting a Trump tweet. It doesn't have to be atrocious, just his usual dumb bragging. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/868979531641741313
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Jun 21, 2017 17:12
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Do what I do and just scroll until you see a tweet or something. EDIT: ^^^^ Thank you! 
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Jun 21, 2017 17:12
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Hey It's not the end of the world that the dems couldn't swing the historic stronghold of Barbadian slave-holding deep South aristocrats
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Jun 21, 2017 17:13
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Pollyanna posted:At this point I'm just gonna ignore the thread. Any mattering will show up on the news. That's if the public doesn't become complacent with a lovely, corrupt government and stops caring.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:13
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skylined! posted:don't you get it Okay, that's not people's positions and I really hope you know that. Had Ossoff won, a lot of Republicans might have taken a second to consider that maybe the AHCA will kill them in their next election. And the fact that leaders in the Republican party have been doing their damndest to insulate their members from town halls, there's some merit to that idea.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:13
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I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? You can define "worst" any way you like. It has to be a single tweet. I want the tweet that made you want to unplug the entire Internet.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:15
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Star Man posted:The average joe in the US is against nuclear power because of fearmongering by clueless environmental groups for the last forty years. It's just a matter of convenience that the fear of nuclear power also helps out fossil fuel industries. Nuclear power is dead in the US because the construction companies are bankrupting themselves when they try to build new plants and most power operators don't want to deal with the financial proposition of running an expensive and complicated plant when gas and renewables are so cheap. Public opinion is a great scapegoat, but it is the companies that are the real road block.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:15
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Gunfucker Von Abortionhater lost in San Francisco. Clearly it's the end of the Republican rule.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:15
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? The first time he's ever used twitter because it hasn't gotten better no matter what horse poo poo he dumps onto his phone.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:16
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? Honestly the covfefe one because it means that literally no one is checking these things before he sends them, which is the most frightening part of all.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:17
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I'm a poster child for a Republican party voter (who votes left because lmao eat the rich) and even if I was [more of] a selfish POS I'm still seeing no tangible benefit to anything in my normal every day life. Like deregulation would make my life much easier at the expense of the planet, but the cavalier way in which they go about it aka an email that says 'hey industry, we're trying to get rid of regs but we really don't know what we're doing so please send us some spreadsheets of environmental regulations that are stupid and we'll look at them' is really really dumb
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Jun 21, 2017 17:17
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TGLT posted:Okay, that's not people's positions and I really hope you know that. Had Ossoff won, a lot of Republicans might have taken a second to consider that maybe the AHCA will kill them in their next election. And the fact that leaders in the Republican party have been doing their damndest to insulate their members from town halls, there's some merit to that idea. If they weren't considering this then it would have been passed two months ago. It isn't the leaders trying to insulate members from town halls, it's the members themselves. Acting like they just aren't aware of the political toxicity of the AHCA is simply not reality, and not admitting that they know about it is just bizarre. There are no indications that they are ignorant of it.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:18
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? Daily show kinda did this a while back, and this is one is up there for me https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/474134260149157888
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Jun 21, 2017 17:18
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WampaLord posted:Honestly the covfefe one because it means that literally no one is checking these things before he sends them, which is the most frightening part of all. Seconded, but because it so effectively distracted the entire world from the actual sinister poo poo they're doing
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Jun 21, 2017 17:18
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Majorian posted:This is 100% the opposite of the Democrats' strategy in 2016. I was being sarcastic, yes. . WampaLord posted:You yelled at people for being optimistic. I'm not sure of another word to use for the "this is actually a victory" attitude then. I genuinely don't think anyone should give up but I do wholeheartedly think it's important to acknowledge why defeats happen instead of trying to change them into victories. Even if the answer is 'they ran a bad candidate and tried to compensate for it with a ton of money" that's more useful than "Well nobody expected to win anyway, so it isn't a real loss." I also don't think the argument that it probably was too overhyped is without merit but if you're worried about people being demoralized, "the Democrats threw a ton of money at a failing candidate" probably does more to make people give up than a random post on a message board.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:19
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WampaLord posted:I can't believe people are being yelled at for not And many of those yelling were really pissed off about the "Doom is upon us! We have already lost!" fundraising emails. btw I think that the negative email tactic needs to be reevaluated. From what I can tell it really gained prominence with the tea party organizations who blasted out "we are so hosed (unless you donate)" 24/7, but most of those organizations were more interested in lining their pockets than electoral success. The tactic is undeniably effective at raising money but I think that more work needs to be done to determine the effect it might have on voter and volunteer motivation for democratic voters.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:19
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ing enough.
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Trabisnikof posted:Nuclear power is dead in the US because the construction companies are bankrupting themselves when they try to build new plants and most power operators don't want to deal with the financial proposition of running an expensive and complicated plant when gas and renewables are so cheap. If the public opinion wasn't such a problem, we could tax coal and natural gas plants to price in the externalities of climate change and health issues and reverse the math on that particular roadblock.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:20
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not sure of another word to use for the "this is actually a victory" attitude then. I genuinely don't think anyone should give up but I do wholeheartedly think it's important to acknowledge why defeats happen instead of trying to change them into victories. get this, but maybe your perception is incorrect and people aren't trying to turn ossoff's defeat into a victory, but are instead discussing how it's not a crushing loss and the doom of millions? is that possible? could it be that you overreacted?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:21
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Dietrich posted:If the public opinion wasn't such a problem, we could tax coal and natural gas plants to price in the externalities of climate change and health issues and reverse the math on that particular problem. Public opinion isn't what's stopping a carbon tax, republican politicians and their donors are.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:21
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Xombie posted:If they weren't considering this then it would have been passed two months ago. It isn't the leaders trying to insulate members from town halls, it's the members themselves. Wasn't that part of the reason they were pushing for eating into the August recess? I might be misremembering that. Also keeping Republicans in the dark has absolutely been why they've tried to ram this bill through as hard, as fast, and as secretly as possible. They only need to lose a few members to kill this whole thing dead. edit: Shifty Pony posted:And many of those yelling were really pissed off about the "Doom is upon us! We have already lost!" fundraising emails. no seriously gently caress whoever sent those emails. I know people rag on "the enemy is powerful and weak at the same time!" poo poo but that second half is the point. They're powerful and overwhelming, unless we work together.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:21
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? Worst in terms of sheer damage to his presidency has to be either the wiretapp one or threatening Comey. Worst in terms of me laughing maniacally for reasons I can't explain would be covfefe.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:22
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Skippy Granola posted:By-election = HYOOG Eh, I think it's actually questionable how big this story is. From the CNN article on today's testimony: quote:"We have evidence of ... election-related systems in 21 states were targeted," she said. So that's not actually a whole lot of information. A foreign government attempting something like this is a lot less frightening than one actually succeeding, and it doesn't sound like this was some massive operation. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians (and maybe even other governments) made similar attempts in previous elections that we just never heard about.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:23
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Shifty Pony posted:btw I think that the negative email tactic needs to be reevaluated. From what I can tell it really gained prominence with the tea party organizations who blasted out "we are so hosed (unless you donate)" 24/7, but most of those organizations were more interested in lining their pockets than electoral success. The tactic is undeniably effective at raising money but I think that more work needs to be done to determine the effect it might have on voter and volunteer motivation for democratic voters. Absolutely, the idea of "must raise money at all costs" needs to die since 2016 showed us that money isn't the answer.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:23
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TGLT posted:Wasn't that part of the reason they were pushing for eating into the August recess? I might be misremembering that. Also keeping Republicans in the dark has absolutely been why they've tried to ram this bill through as hard, as fast, and as secretly as possible. They only need to lose a few members to kill this whole thing dead. Republicans are going to pass the AHCA. At best those few members would get a concession, but the bill will pass and Trump will sign it.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:24
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Dick Trauma posted:I'm going to challenge the thread: What is the worst of all of Trump's tweets as President? The covfefe tweet, not necessarily because of Trump himself but because of how it blew up into a huge meme for that week.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:24
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The people saying we are all hosed aren't wrong. The response they have to we are all hosed is.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:26
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Trabisnikof posted:Public opinion isn't what's stopping a carbon tax, republican politicians and their donors are. Look even republicans have to answer to public opinion within their own districts. The issue is that the public opinion in their districts is currently "gently caress the poor, the minorities, and the planet". You get climate change to poll over 50% with GOP primary voters and you will get movement on that front. (Alternate route, fix gerrymandering so GOP pols actually have to care what non-tea party "patriots" think).
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Jun 21, 2017 17:26
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Paradoxish posted:Eh, I think it's actually questionable how big this story is. From the CNN article on today's testimony: I did indeed catch that it's unlikely it changed the result. I suppose my bigger concern is why there wasn't a stronger response from the government. Isn't even attempted election tampering a big deal? Although now that I put it that way the Russians could just say "wasn't us, probably just some of those pesky hackers getting up to mischief"
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Jun 21, 2017 17:28
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Dietrich posted:Look even republicans have to answer to public opinion within their own districts. The issue is that the public opinion in their districts is currently "gently caress the poor, the minorities, and the planet". You get climate change to poll over 50% with GOP primary voters and you will get movement on that front. (Alternate route, fix gerrymandering so GOP pols actually have to care what non-tea party "patriots" think). Not really. You can have 90% Republican voters approve an idea and they won't punish their Representatives because they don't care about the issue. Getting Republicans to believe climate change is the biggest issue facing America is a tall order compared to just getting them to like a carbon tax. Edit: for context a carbon tax already polls at 44% among republicans. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 17:30
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Dietrich posted:Look even republicans have to answer to public opinion within their own districts. Unlikely as studies have shown congressional actions are much more correlated with lobbyists and interest groups than the public opinion.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:30
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Dietrich posted:Look even republicans have to answer to public opinion within their own districts. The issue is that the public opinion in their districts is currently "gently caress the poor, the minorities, and the planet". You get climate change to poll over 50% with GOP primary voters and you will get movement on that front. (Alternate route, fix gerrymandering so GOP pols actually have to care what non-tea party "patriots" think). Isn't the reason they're ramming AHCA through is because McConnell's doesn't want town halls scaring the piss out of already nervous Republican senators?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:31
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Xombie posted:If they weren't considering this then it would have been passed two months ago. It isn't the leaders trying to insulate members from town halls, it's the members themselves. Ossof wouldn't have changed Turtle Fucker's mind to not needle every loophole available to push AHCA through. Winning GA-O6 would not have stopped a republican government hell bent on killing poor people in the cheapest, quickest way possible because he's just one seat in the house. To actively fight against that you're going to need to get people mad enough at their congress critters and the whole system of government to impeach or attack all of them right the gently caress now. But it is so much easier to just say there is no hope and sad-jack on an internet forum because hey, at least I can pretend I'm doing something in the most minuscule way possible! Skippy Granola posted:I did indeed catch that it's unlikely it changed the result. Because Trump's greatest victory is the 2016 election. Devaluing that, even a little, would absolutely implode his ego and make him far more erratic than he is even now.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:32
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I'm just sick of getting blueballed on this Russia poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:37
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Trabisnikof posted:Not really. You can have 90% Republican voters approve an idea and they won't punish their Representatives because they don't care about the issue. Did you sleep through the entire tea party movement? quote:Getting Republicans to believe climate change is the biggest issue facing America is a tall order compared to just getting them to like a carbon tax. Agreed. Reik posted:Unlikely as studies have shown congressional actions are much more correlated with lobbyists and interest groups than the public opinion. Yeah, true, but that has alot to do with the requirement for coordinated action to get things done in congress. 5 random congressmen wanting movement on climate change won't get the bill past the committee and to the floor. Lobbyists and interest groups can target the right 5 congressmen to make that happen, and once the issue is up for public debate everyone more or less has to take a stance on it.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:38
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Crabtree posted:Because Trump's greatest victory is the 2016 election. Devaluing that, even a little, would absolutely implode his ego and make him far more erratic than he is even now. Obama's administration had this intelligence and also didn't act publicly on it. There's really nothing to be done with this kind of information, other than to use it to make sure that future attempts also aren't successful. In Obama's case, his administration also did the right thing by disseminating the information throughout the government as much as possible so it'd be available for future investigations.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:41
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