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Just gonna borrow this
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Jun 21, 2017 19:52
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Sandpuppy posted:JRRose rubs his hands in eager anticipation of a tragedy in OhiO. AAARGH THESE PEOPLE ARE THE ANTAGONISTS OF THE PLAY THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE FUUUCK quote:
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Jun 21, 2017 19:54
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Not only is this a good cartoon, it seems tailor made for this thread!
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Jun 21, 2017 19:59
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Lmao 
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Jun 21, 2017 20:02
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"Everyone I hate are the same people."
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Jun 21, 2017 20:08
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Zesty posted:"Everyone I hate are the same people." So let me get this straight, in the span of a week, people got former rioters to channel their anger into theater? Shouldn't this be a good thing or does the cartoonist actually want violence?
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Jun 21, 2017 20:13
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Sandpuppy posted:
Wait, do they think everyone was in shakespeare's time but they just threw trump in for no reason? Do they not realize it's being set in modern times and therefore has the modern President? I can't tell when people are intentionally missing the point or if they're just too dumb to know they're missing it. And I just realized that last sentence kind of sums up my feelings to a lot of cartoonists on here.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:14
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I don't get how you can see "antifa" as the enemy without also realizing that you are rooting for the "fa"
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Jun 21, 2017 20:19
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They're going to be bringing up this Shakespeare poo poo for the remainder of Trump's term, aren't they. NEWS ITEM: Trump legitimately says a racial slur to a foreign prime minister MCCOY: Yeah, but look at this Shakespearean actor being a meanie
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Jun 21, 2017 20:22
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Crabtree posted:So let me get this straight, in the span of a week, people got former rioters to channel their anger into theater? Shouldn't this be a good thing or does the cartoonist actually want violence? They started jeteing and stopped jeterrorizing us
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Jun 21, 2017 20:25
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Gum posted:"We held on to a deep red district by our fingertips- fear us"? On the other hand, there's also the lefties who are crowing "Ossoff would have won if only he'd done things my way!"
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Jun 21, 2017 20:26
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Skippy Granola posted:I don't get how you can see "antifa" as the enemy without also realizing that you are rooting for the "fa" Yes, they want to be part of a great fascist regime where they are powerful and their enemies are brutalized. If the dow goes up who cares how many poors suffer, they're poors.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:29
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Crabtree posted:Yes, they want to be part of a great fascist regime where they are powerful and their enemies are brutalized. If the dow goes up who cares how many poors suffer, they're poors. But... Fascism is... bad?
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Jun 21, 2017 20:31
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Sandpuppy posted:
Guys I'm starting to think the right in America doesn't care about facts or context.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:31
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Skippy Granola posted:I don't get how you can see "antifa" as the enemy without also realizing that you are rooting for the "fa" Really the sentiment seems to be more "Calling yourself something doesn't mean you are that thing". Like how the various countries called People's Republic of X which are neither of the people nor republics. That and people not realizing that "Antifa" is "Anti-Fa", most people I hear pronounce it more "An-tifa" and may not make the connection to anti-fascism.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:33
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Jurgan posted:On the other hand, there's also the lefties who are crowing "Ossoff would have won if only he'd done things my way!" hot take: Jon Ossoff was not a good candidate, and I wish he'd won but I was never optimistic
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Jun 21, 2017 20:33
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loquacius posted:hot take: Jon Ossoff was not a good candidate, and I wish he'd won but I was never optimistic I mean yeah but there's no shortage of people acting like a full communism now candidate would've cleaned up in a district full of FYGM suburbanites.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:39
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I mean yeah but there's no shortage of people acting like a full communism now candidate would've cleaned up in a district full of FYGM suburbanites. Burn the centrist!
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Jun 21, 2017 20:43
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I mean yeah but there's no shortage of people acting like a full communism now candidate would've cleaned up in a district full of FYGM suburbanites. Eh, it'd be nice to see someone actually run on a leftist platform and fail, instead of the usual nobody's-happy compromises that also fail. I think the idea of moderation is out the window after 2016.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:46
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Skippy Granola posted:But... Skippy, we have people gleefully crafting AHCA behind obvious closed doors until they just stamp it out and gently caress people raw and hard for years to come. Evil is in, buddy. Lurdiak posted:Eh, it'd be nice to see someone actually run on a leftist platform and fail, instead of the usual nobody's-happy compromises that also fail. I think the idea of moderation is out the window after 2016. Clone Corybn and watch somehow that an outright Communist wins the DEM pick and the Presidency because reality runs by jokes. Trump then declares a state of emergency and tries to overthrow the government.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:52
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Lurdiak posted:Eh, it'd be nice to see someone actually run on a leftist platform and fail, instead of the usual nobody's-happy compromises that also fail. I think the idea of moderation is out the window after 2016. Archie Parnell ran on a pretty strong liberal platform (certainly by South Carolina standards), and came within four points of winning. He actually did better than Ossoff, though that's partly because of turnout.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:53
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I mean yeah but there's no shortage of people acting like a full communism now candidate would've cleaned up in a district full of FYGM suburbanites. You don't even have to run on full communism now, honestly, just, y'know, run on something other than "I want to oppose Trump" Say what you will about the tenets of progressive populism, Dude, at least it's an ethos also: don't run ads like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rMVNC5l4IM typing on his phone at me, then looking up to see if I read it yet, then typing at me some more dude I'm right here, just talk, say something out loud Lurdiak posted:Eh, it'd be nice to see someone actually run on a leftist platform and fail, instead of the usual nobody's-happy compromises that also fail. I think the idea of moderation is out the window after 2016. "I believe that if you start your campaign and run on a platform calling for a full loaf, at worst youre gonna get a half loaf. If you start your campaign talking about a need for a half loaf, youre going to get crumbs." -- Romantic poet John Keats e: Jurgan posted:Archie Parnell ran on a pretty strong liberal platform (certainly by South Carolina standards), and came within four points of winning. He actually did better than Ossoff, though that's partly because of turnout. Just think how well he could have done if he'd received even a tenth the national attention and outside funding that Ossoff did
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Jun 21, 2017 20:54
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Jurgan posted:On the other hand, there's also the lefties who are crowing "Ossoff would have won if only he'd done things my way!" Maybe but if races like this one are competitive then you're already looking down the barrel of a landslide. At this point you're basically playing for score
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Jun 21, 2017 20:54
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Erenthal posted:Kreider is still the perennial thread hero. Excellent article.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:55
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Democrats could use hopeless races like this to play around with more leftist platforms to see what gets people cheering, and what gets people booing. But the far left on this forum will *never* be happy. Even if Bernie had become president, they'd have been hating him about .... now, as he showed no signs of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and instead was fighting with a strongly Republican Congress over minimum wage and higher education funding.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:58
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BarbarianElephant posted:Democrats could use hopeless races like this to play around with more leftist platforms to see what gets people cheering, and what gets people booing. But the far left on this forum will *never* be happy. Even if Bernie had become president, they'd have been hating him about .... now, as he showed no signs of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and instead was fighting with a strongly Republican Congress over minimum wage and higher education funding. On the contrary, I think I can speak for everyone in this forum and all associated subforums when I say we'd all be a lot happier than we are now
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Jun 21, 2017 21:15
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Ossoff's campaign did its best to ignore Trump entirely, I don't know why people are pretending he ran as the anti-Trump.
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Jun 21, 2017 21:24
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loquacius posted:Just think how well he could have done if he'd received even a tenth the national attention and outside funding that Ossoff did There is a school of thought that national attention was a net negative in these races. The basic idea is that Dems were already motivated to vote against Trump, and all the attention and advertising woke up Republicans who might have sat the Georgia election out otherwise. GA-06 had much higher turnout than SC-05, and the Republican did better there. Candidates do make a difference, though. Maybe it's just that I paid more attention to SC because my wife was born in that district and I lived there for four years, but I had a good idea what Parnell wanted and why he was qualified, while I don't know anything about Ossoff other than he was a symbolic anti-Trump vote. Also, that ad you posted is awful- compare it to Archie's hilarious House of Cards parody and there's no contest. Really, though, if you want better candidates, you have to put the work in and win primaries. Ossoff pretty much got the nomination by default, because no one else ran, as far as I know.
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Jun 21, 2017 21:24
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loquacius posted:"I believe that if you start your campaign and run on a platform calling for a full loaf, at worst youre gonna get a half loaf. If you start your campaign talking about a need for a half loaf, youre going to get crumbs." -- Romantic poet John Keats 
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Jun 21, 2017 21:34
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Shangri-Law School posted:Ossoff's campaign did its best to ignore Trump entirely, I don't know why people are pretending he ran as the anti-Trump. I mean, just off the top of my head, that ad I just posted, did you watch it You don't even have to watch it because its preview image looks like this  like, a counter-example is right here on this page already and you don't even have to click anything The election was treated in national media as basically a Trump referendum -- "dissatisfaction with Trump's presidency is so high that the Democrats have a chance to steal this red district" etc etc -- and everything I've seen from its marketing hasn't really done a whole lot to dispel that  Jurgan posted:There is a school of thought that national attention was a net negative in these races. The basic idea is that Dems were already motivated to vote against Trump, and all the attention and advertising woke up Republicans who might have sat the Georgia election out otherwise. GA-06 had much higher turnout than SC-05, and the Republican did better there. This is a possibility, but more funding from the national party certainly couldn't have hurt quote:Really, though, if you want better candidates, you have to put the work in and win primaries. Ossoff pretty much got the nomination by default, because no one else ran, as far as I know. This is a problem I don't really know how to address, since I'm like 90% of the country in that I like my rep (Joe Kennedy is good despite being a dynasty-haver) but I think everyone else's is dogshit
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Jun 21, 2017 21:38
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That might literally be the only ad Ossoff ran that mentioned Trump, and it wasn't shown at all down the stretch in the runoff. He barely mentioned him if at all in the two debates. This was notable; my buddy who worked on Ossoff's campaign says that his team thought he should goose up the Trump talk a little but Ossoff chose not to. Ossoff's ads in the runoff were centered on four ideas: 1) Karen Handel is vehemently anti-choice, hates PPUSA, is fine with women getting breast cancer; an offshoot of this is that she's fine if you can't pay for your kids' treatments due to the AHCA 2) Washington sucks, don't it? I'll make it better. 3) Jobs are good. Here are some smart locals who do the jobs. I'll help them do more jobs. 4) Let me clear the record about (GOP argument against me). Disclosure: I live in Atlanta and watch Wheel/Jeopardy every weekday night so yeah, I was drowning in these commercials for a couple months. Most of the DC/NYC lefty chatter about the state of campaign messaging was pulled from their asses wholesale, or done via a quick peek at YouTube. e: This seat is up for grabs again in 2018. Ossoff can choose to keep his organization in place with all that cheddar and make another run for it. OR, a more progressive candidate could challenge him if Our Revolution, DemSoc, etc., get off their duffs and do something. Our Rev GA hasn't even sent out a mass email since like March so I'm guessing that's a no. D.N. Nation fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 21:56
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loquacius posted:hot take: Jon Ossoff was not a good candidate, and I wish he'd won but I was never optimistic Yeah, he took a GOP district from solid double digit wins to low single digit win he's basically Martha Coakley. 
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Jun 21, 2017 22:02
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Stultus Maximus posted:Yeah, he took a GOP district from solid double digit wins to low single digit win he's basically Martha Coakley. GA-6 is in a weird ether; Hillary Clinton actually won the three counties (including Cobb, which is crazy) that are part of its area but not the area of GA-6 itself (all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles aren't squares). But it's suburban, well-off, well-educated, and largely white. The idea here is that you easily get the blue parts, then go picking off the suburban moms who are sick of Trump's poo poo. It almost worked in Round 1 but enough GOPers came home that the runoff wasn't meant to be. Before you ask the internals showed the campaign that the easily blue voters had been more or less been maxed out; there wasn't some super-lefty pocket hidden that they didn't find or anything. If I could change anything about GA-6, other than the fact that Ossoff lost... - I wouldn't have the national Dems spend so much money on it. At the end, there were too many commercials; too much voter contact, that people might've gotten sick of him. - I would've hit Handel harder on AHCA. His message there was sound, he just didn't say it enough IMO. The LOL THIS ONE AD IS WHY OSSOFF LOST and HE DIDN'T EVEN LIVE IN THE DISTRICT NO I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH TAKING HANDEL'S MESSAGING AND ACTING LIKE IT'S PROGRESSIVE and HE LOOKS LIKE A GOOBER UNLIKE JEREMY CORBYN SWOON stuff, meh.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:10
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D.N. Nation posted:Ossoff's ads in the runoff were centered on four ideas: Of these, I liked 3, but 1 and 2 were exactly the kind of negative reactive campaigning I was referencing even if they don't mention Trump's name explicitly (although point 2 almost did) and 4 was also reactive and questionable strategy. I think trying to bring in more tech jobs was basically his one solid proactive campaign promise that anyone knew about, which is not bad but also doesn't really reach you if you're not a tech professional. Stultus Maximus posted:Yeah, he took a GOP district from solid double digit wins to low single digit win he's basically Martha Coakley.  Ossoff got pretty much exactly as many votes as the no-name no-funding Generic D who ran last year. The only reason this one was close is that Karen Handel is not a long-standing beloved incumbent. Ossoff was not a good candidate.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:13
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loquacius posted:
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Jun 21, 2017 22:17
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loquacius posted:Of these, I liked 3, but 1 and 2 were exactly the kind of negative reactive campaigning I was referencing even if they don't mention Trump's name explicitly (although point 2 almost did) and 4 was also reactive and questionable strategy. I think trying to bring in more tech jobs was basically his one solid proactive campaign promise that anyone knew about, which is not bad but also doesn't really reach you if you're not a tech professional. You're comparing special election turnout to presidential election turnout. Dem voters in particular are hard to motivate to turn out to "less important" elections.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:18
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Point 2's "Washington sucks" was less "Trump sucks" and more "stop frivolous spending"/"I'll work across the aisle", which granted isn't a great message from a Democrat but plays well in places where David Brooks columns are taken as a source of intellectual inspiration and not toilet paper.quote:Ossoff got pretty much exactly as many votes as the no-name no-funding Generic D who ran last year That's pretty good to do in a special runoff as opposed to a Presidential year election.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:19
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Crabtree posted:Skippy, we have people gleefully crafting AHCA behind obvious closed doors until they just stamp it out and gently caress people raw and hard for years to come. Evil is in, buddy. Son of a biscuit why didn't anyone tell them that authoritarian oligarchies are unamerican!
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Jun 21, 2017 22:24
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D.N. Nation posted:Point 2's "Washington sucks" was less "Trump sucks" and more "stop frivolous spending"/"I'll work across the aisle", which granted isn't a great message from a Democrat but plays well in places where David Brooks columns are taken as a source of intellectual inspiration and not toilet paper. If I had one wish it'd be every time anyone said this they'd immediately get struck by lightning
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Jun 21, 2017 22:24
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I'm surprised at how many fewer votes Handel got than Price.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:25
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