Elyv posted:oath was a bad set with some good cards, all but one of which had diamonds in their mana cost This seems really strong. Looks like Jackal dudes are the value-town tribe of this set.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:06 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:26 |
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Elyv posted:On an unrelated note, I want to say that I dislike how demons are giant dudes with an eeeeevil ability, instead of giant dudes who could potentially have a drawback. It doesn't even need to be something like Lord of the Pit, I just want there to be scenarios where your deal with the devil backfires. Don't want to draw a card and lose a life whenever something dies because you're already at 1? Well, maybe you shouldn't have cast that Kothophed. Can't cast your demon of dark schemes because it wipes the board? Oh I'm sorry. Cards like Griselbrand, Herald of Anguish, and this new dude I'm not even going to try to spell annoy me a bit (obviously, Griselbrand is annoying for other reasons too) They probably don't do this because when they do it sucks and no one wants to play it:
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:12 |
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Mikujin posted:They probably don't do this because when they do it sucks and no one wants to play it: In that case the card is really built around the drawback. There's a reason I mentioned Demon of Dark Schemes; it barely has a drawback, but at least there's a semi-realistic scenario where you wouldn't want to make your deal with the devil.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:15 |
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Mikujin posted:They probably don't do this because when they do it sucks and no one wants to play it: This seems like the kind of effect that would go hilariously wrong in MTGO randomly
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:24 |
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Elyv posted:In that case the card is really built around the drawback. There's a reason I mentioned Demon of Dark Schemes; it barely has a drawback, but at least there's a semi-realistic scenario where you wouldn't want to make your deal with the devil.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:32 |
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Mikujin posted:The problem with drawback cards is that, typically, if the drawback is noticeable or able to occur with any degree of frequency the card sees zero play or hype. No one wants to open a Treacherous Pit-Dweller or equivalent, and no one is excited to play it regardless of how thematically fitting it is. This is especially problematic when you start dealing with creature types that are considered iconic - like Angels, Demons, Dragons. Everyone excepts them to be powerful or cool and not just poo poo that makes your life miserable to play with. There are ways of weaving that into a powerful effect. Perfect example: Bob.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:34 |
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Rinkles posted:There are ways of weaving that into a powerful effect. Perfect example: Bob. Cards like Treacherous Pit-Dweller employ punisher mechanics rather than drawbacks you can mitigate in deck design. Punisher mechanics are never good or fun so they really hit that "not even casuals want to play this card" sweet spot.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:53 |
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That GGX card enables some crazy grinding with eternal witness. It's really slow though.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:10 |
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Mikujin posted:What I was getting at is the cost/benefit analysis of the card itself. There's virtually no drawback to playing Bob (if memory serves the math on Bob in a traditional deck list, for example, was that it costs something on the order of 0.7 life per turn). Similarly, there's virtually no drawback on cards like Griselbrand or Bloodgift demon (even though it's there). Speaking purely for myself, I don't really care how token the drawback is as long as it exists; again, Demon of Dark Schemes barely has a drawback. I realize that most people don't care, though, and it's not like some sort of huge deal to me.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:18 |
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Creatures having interesting drawbacks is just like anything else: if you properly design the environments for them (and then properly design the card itself, of course), people will want to play them; if you don't, then no poo poo they won't be hyped or played. Throughout Magic's history, cards with what I'm sure we would today consider disqualifying drawbacks have been played, and not in an Ironclaw Orcs-style "well there's nothing better in this color so I guess" way, but in a "this is a genuinely powerful dude in this context and I am excited/happy to play it" way.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:27 |
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Hell we even somewhat recently had a demon with a drawback see constructed play. And that demon was desecration demon.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:35 |
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Razaketh is not only horrible, it's one of the dumbest designs in recent memory - who the gently caress is playing a deck full of sac-cable creatures plus an 8 drop. It's a stupid EDH design that doesn't enable anything but the kind of bullshit that happens with repeatable tutors. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jun 22, 2017 |
# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:36 |
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I had to reread that card (desecration) the first time I saw it to make sure I understood the drawback. Same as the Theros dragon, I couldn't wrap my mind around creatures this powerful. Rinkles fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jun 22, 2017 |
# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:37 |
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Angry Grimace posted:Razaketh is not only horrible, it's one of the dumbest designs in recent memory - who the gently caress is playing a deck full of sac-cable creatures plus an 8 drop. There was a cryptolith rite deck in SOI standard that played Dragonlord Atarka
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:40 |
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uninverted posted:There was a cryptolith rite deck in SOI standard that played Dragonlord Atarka Dragonlord Atarka is orders of magnitude better than Razaketh.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:41 |
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Elyv posted:
the paincast is the name of my s and m podcast
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:45 |
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Elyv posted:
Newbie question. Let's say your opponent is attacking with a glorybringer. Can I defend with this card then exert it to cause the one extra damage so the glorybringer dies as well? I feel like on streams I have seen people activate card abilities as they are about to die / be exiled but I am not quite sure which abilities can and can't be used like that.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:56 |
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Tainen posted:Newbie question. Let's say your opponent is attacking with a glorybringer. Can I defend with this card then exert it to cause the one extra damage so the glorybringer dies as well? I feel like on streams I have seen people activate card abilities as they are about to die / be exiled but I am not quite sure which abilities can and can't be used like that. Yes and no. Activating abilities after blocks are declared works like you want it to, but Fervent Paincaster can't block Glorybringer in the first place because Glorybringer has flying.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:58 |
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Attorney at Funk posted:Yes and no. Activating abilities after blocks are declared works like you want it to, but Fervent Paincaster can't block Glorybringer in the first place because Glorybringer has flying. Oops! It was the only 4 toughness creature I could think of by name and forgot it was flying.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:01 |
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Star Man posted:You remember how Moses spoke to Ramses in The Ten Commandments or in The Prince of Egypt and threw his staff to the ground and it turned into a snake? It's just like that scene in Ten commandments where Moses fights a giant scorpion headed monster and gets stung in the head and dies.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:01 |
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:39 |
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I like this card.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:41 |
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This will hopefully see standard play, but who knows
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:44 |
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Could T1 mana creature, T2 counter your fetchland be a real thing in modern?
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:46 |
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Yeah this is cool
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:47 |
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this card is kind of sweet in modern Mono G stompy, assuming you're not on 4x Aspect of Hydra
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:49 |
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uninverted posted:Could T1 mana creature, T2 counter your fetchland be a real thing in modern? Shadow of Doubt does the same thing with less work and that effect has only seen rare play in Modern.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:53 |
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Attorney at Funk posted:Shadow of Doubt does the same thing with less work and that effect has only seen rare play in Modern. Shadow of Doubt doesn't have a flying creature mode as a generic backup.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:04 |
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I think Shadow saw play in a few sideboards for awhile, but the effect (in modern at least) wasn't really terrible in demand.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:04 |
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Attorney at Funk posted:Shadow of Doubt does the same thing with less work and that effect has only seen rare play in Modern. Shadow of Doubt cantrips while stifling, this stifles while leaving a 3/1 flyer. While there is overlap, this is definitely a different card. It's not bonkers but it seems good enough to warrant at least trying out.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:07 |
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Typhus733 posted:Shadow of Doubt cantrips while stifling, this stifles while leaving a 3/1 flyer. While there is overlap, this is definitely a different card. It's not bonkers but it seems good enough to warrant at least trying out. No, this cycles while stifling or gives you a 3/1 flier. Cactrot fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jun 22, 2017 |
# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:08 |
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Typhus733 posted:Shadow of Doubt cantrips while stifling, this stifles while leaving a 3/1 flyer. Please re-read the card.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:09 |
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Typhus733 posted:Shadow of Doubt cantrips while stifling, this stifles while leaving a 3/1 flyer. While there is overlap, this is definitely a different card. It's not bonkers but it seems good enough to warrant at least trying out. Not it doesn't. You either get the bird or you cycle for Stifle. You don't get both.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:09 |
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I do if my opponent isn't really paying attention.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:12 |
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Star Man posted:Not it doesn't. You either get the bird or you cycle for Stifle. You don't get both. Either way I want to jam a bunch into U/R control. Card looks super cool
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:13 |
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Gonna shoot down your fetch with a StifleCycle drive-by Vroom vroom *peels out*
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:19 |
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I don't see this seeing standard play; Griselbrand was unfathomably stronger and still only was playable in Standard due to the presence of an incredible reanimation spell, and the cost for the tutor means you aren't even drawing cards off of it. EDH fodder due to the power of repeatable tutors, but that's about it. I am also disappointed that you can't even sacrifice it to itself for the tutor effect if needed. EDIT: And yeah, that is horrid flavor text. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 22, 2017 |
# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:32 |
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Typhus733 posted:Shadow of Doubt cantrips while stifling, this stifles while leaving a 3/1 flyer. While there is overlap, this is definitely a different card. It's not bonkers but it seems good enough to warrant at least trying out. It only counters abilities if you cycle, not if you play the card. The card is basically a split card where it's 2U: counter target activated or triggered ability, draw a card // 2U: 3/1 flier you can flash out.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:32 |
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the Orb of Zot posted:I don't see this seeing standard play; Griselbrand was unfathomably stronger and still only was playable in Standard due to the presence of an incredible reanimation spell, and the cost for the tutor means you aren't even drawing cards off of it. It's an EDH card
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:35 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:26 |
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Also I, for one, am finally glad we have a decent card against aetherworks Marvel in standard with this stifle bird
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:37 |