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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Crowsbeak posted:I say, adopt a wait and see approach then to ironstache. If he keeps saying the right things, back him. Yeah. Like most online lefties I really loved that ad so finding out about these, on the surface, unsavory connections..just a little deflated. I did defend Sirota against Brock though so I guess we might be getting a similar scenario. Brock has a honeyed tongue and a good pitch...at the beginning, anyway.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:03
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well Brock tried to get Real Leftist David Sirota on board and they parted ways after about a month. Not hopeful. When I saw that Bryce ad I assumed it had been produced through Our Revolution or Justice Democrats but if it came from the centrist ghouls - and if they're backing him - it's not great. Unless, of course, this is the critical moment where the consultants finally realize which way the wind is blowing and start backing real leftist ideas (and even then, my theory is the minute tax increases come up, they'll jump ship or call in their favors). Hillary accused Sanders of wanting to let the Republicans repeal Obamacare so he could do his healthcare plan. It never made any sense. It was just a garbage attack from a garbage human being, but now progressives have to be specific about not wanting to do that I guess.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:25
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Ytlaya posted:Regarding Democrats being more willing to lose than oppose certain business interests, I think that it's usually not so much some shady thing where politicians go "mwahaha I want to sell out the American people in order to financially enrich my donors and certain business interests!" It's more that they usually genuinely believe and trust the perspectives of the lobbyists, donors, etc they speak with (and it doesn't hurt that they often come from a similar socioeconomic background themselves, so these are "their people", so to speak). Some lobbyist or representative will explain (for example) why a certain financial regulation is bad, and they do it in a way that can be convincing to to the politicians they speak with (who are usually laypeople when it comes to specific industries and rely on industry lobbyists* for information). Basically, they see things as a mutually beneficial relationship where they work together with the industry in question to craft helpful legislation and what have you. They often genuinely trust these people to know what's best, and the industry lobbyists/executives/whatever probably genuinely believe that what's best for their industry is also what's best for the country as a whole (what a coincidence!). And since most politicians don't have a clear idea about most policy, they're going to learn about issues as they arise. Guess who is there first to help explain it? The most powerful interests who care about that topic of course. And for every leftist view they hear (even if they take all comers) they'll hear 10x from the powerful right now. But then if you have a tight schedule and can't take two meetings, you're going to always pick the powerful person with the ability to meaningfully retaliate versus the weak one only seeking to inform you. The answer is being more aggressive about creating those organizations and activist groups that can both provide steady and longterm access to topic-knowledge for legislatures but also provide a united front with the capacity to get meetings for fear of political retaliation. There are many good success stories from the environmental, immigration, and civil rights movements that can be applied to current efforts towards transformational politics.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:25
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FuriousxGeorge posted:It was just a garbage attack from a garbage human being, but now progressives have to be specific about not wanting to do that I guess. The phrasing is bothering me. It's triggering my Spider-Sense. But, as I am not a superhero, my Spider-Sense could be faulty.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:50
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The phrasing is bothering me. It's triggering my Spider-Sense. But, as I am not a superhero, my Spider-Sense could be faulty. It's at least an improvement from Clinton's never-ever stance. But I get what you are saying.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:51
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We have to start running more dudes like Iron Stache and less empty loving suits like Ossoff or Patrick Murphy. People can sense a lack of sincerity, and it doesn't drive them to the polls. Like forget policy for a moment, we just need better candidates on a presentation level.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:54
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I don't really give a poo poo who's funding iron stache. If it's centrists, then great because it means they're starting to understand that leftist populism works a lot better than whatever Ossoff was selling. Even if they handwave it away later, we maybe get a decent candidate out of it, or at very least a minor leftward shove to the Overton window.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:02
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NewForumSoftware posted:the entire concept of decorum while 65,000 people die every year from inadequate healthcare is a joke Excuse me sir, Abuela told me America is already great. Frankly, so did Rachel Maddow and Joy Reid. Are you sexist or something?
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Jun 22, 2017 21:12
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WampaLord posted:We have to start running more dudes like Iron Stache and less empty loving suits like Ossoff or Patrick Murphy. People can sense a lack of sincerity, and it doesn't drive them to the polls. I was confused for a second because I liked my local Patrick Murphy but I guess you meant the Florida guy. loving Florida.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:17
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I was confused for a second because I liked my local Patrick Murphy but I guess you meant the Florida guy. loving Florida. Yea no offense to your dude, seems great, I definitely meant the FL one. The Florida DNC is the worst loving excuse of an organization. And we're not a deep red state, so you'd think we should have a better one.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:20
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WampaLord posted:Yea no offense to your dude, seems great, I definitely meant the FL one. WampaLord, why are you slandering Congress' #1 male feminist?!? http://www.glamour.com/story/patrick-murphy-is-running-for-senate-to-protect-womens-rights (seriously, florida is such a wreck when it comes to the democrats. it's everything i hate about the national dnc concentrated into pure failure)
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Jun 22, 2017 21:43
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WampaLord posted:We have to start running more dudes like Iron Stache and less empty loving suits like Ossoff or Patrick Murphy. People can sense a lack of sincerity, and it doesn't drive them to the polls. I know you dislike most of what I post, but I wholeheartedly agree with you about this.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:45
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WampaLord posted:We have to start running more dudes like Iron Stache and less empty loving suits like Ossoff or Patrick Murphy. People can sense a lack of sincerity, and it doesn't drive them to the polls. Politely disagree, we had that presentation-level perfection in Obama and it didn't really work out. I walked away from that with the attitude that policy needs to be above all but YMMV of course. Policy makes people say "well this guy seems like a spud but the Democrats stand for me so I'll give him a chance." It's more universal.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:59
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Politely disagree, we had that presentation-level perfection in Obama and it didn't really work out. I walked away from that with the attitude that policy needs to be above all but YMMV of course. Policy makes people say "well this guy seems like a spud but the Democrats stand for me so I'll give him a chance." It's more universal. Charisma wins elections, there's no getting around it. You have to be a good candidate first. Ideally, they are also a good politician when they get into office and if not, you primary them.
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Jun 22, 2017 22:01
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Politely disagree, we had that presentation-level perfection in Obama and it didn't really work out. I walked away from that with the attitude that policy needs to be above all but YMMV of course. Policy makes people say "well this guy seems like a spud but the Democrats stand for me so I'll give him a chance." It's more universal. This is a chicken and egg argument. Since literally nobody in America thinks "the Democrats stand for me", we either end up with excellent candidates that succeed despite their party (obama, franken, warren) or candidates you have to hold back vomit to vote for (literally everyone else). The platform as written is reasonably progressive, but most of the candidates running don't even really support it. It's going to take a complete policy shift to the left, plus good candidates that can bring that message to voters. Then, maybe in a decade, someone might wake up in the morning and think "oh good, my state senator is a Democrat now." edit: right before their house slides into the ocean because it'll be too late anyway
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Jun 22, 2017 22:08
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:This is a chicken and egg argument. Since literally nobody in America thinks "the Democrats stand for me" There are lots of people who think this. They are mostly socially liberal middle management types or people who aspire to be them. The Democrats were able to go in the direction of neoliberalism for as long as they did because it did reflect the values of...racist, capitalist boomers, mostly. Well now those boomers are secure, the rest of us are hosed, and Dems are still running to appeal to Your Old Mom/Grandma Who Has A Good Heart But Is Kinda Unknowningly Racist and Also Hates Socialism And Thinks Millennials Are Entitled Because She Can't Conceive of An Economy Different From the One She Worked In. (you've heard of NIMBYs? These are OMWHAGHBIKURAHSATMAEBSCCAEDFTOSWIs. I hope it catches on.) Anyway, have a chart.  Edit: btw I don't mean to imply only women support the Dems, it's just every hardcore Clintonite I met IRL 2015 - 2016 was a baby boomer lady. Clearly the Hillary Men and Vox dudes exist and are a huge influence. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 23:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well now those boomers are secure, the rest of us are hosed, and Dems are still running to appeal to Your Old Mom/Grandma Who Has A Good Heart But Is Kinda Unknowningly Racist and Also Hates Socialism And Thinks Millennials Are Entitled Because She Can't Conceive of An Economy Different From the One She Worked In. (you've heard of NIMBYs? These are OMWHAGHBIKURAHSATMAEBSCCAEDFTOSWIs. I hope it catches on.)] I just said it out loud and someone thought I was having a seizure and put their wallet in my mouth. Thanks rear end. 
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Jun 22, 2017 23:36
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WampaLord posted:Like forget policy for a moment, we just need better candidates on a presentation level. I don't know what you're talking about. PolitiBot 3000 is the perfect candidate who, the developers assure us, is widely appealing because it's not Donald Trump
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Jun 22, 2017 23:37
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Andorra posted:I don't know what you're talking about. PolitiBot 3000 is the perfect candidate who, the developers assure us, is widely appealing because it's not Donald Trump Also, it made a speech calling non-christians 'super-criminals' and posed for pictures with noted war criminal Orlando Bosch. Sure, it may irk a few commies, but think of how many moderate republicans it will win for us!* *= If we lose it's the fault of irked commies, though.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:41
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BTW just personally I've watched my parents go from Clinton voters to full on right-wing Republicans in the last 6 years. They both have teacher's pensions that new teachers don't have access to, which is *delightful* and really sums it all up, don't you think?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:There are lots of people who think this. They are mostly socially liberal middle management types or people who aspire to be them. The Democrats were able to go in the direction of neoliberalism for as long as they did because it did reflect the values of...racist, capitalist boomers, mostly. This is the biggest bullshit chart in the world. Single Payer will not just ensure people stop dying from lack of health care.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:54
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:This is the biggest bullshit chart in the world. Single Payer will not just ensure people stop dying from lack of health care. Good thing the chart is about people dying from lack of health insurance specifically, or else that guy would really have egg on his face!
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Jun 22, 2017 23:57
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gohmak posted:So Democrats are the conservaive econics party. Theyre both the conservative economics party, which is the issue
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Jun 23, 2017 00:06
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:This is the biggest bullshit chart in the world. Single Payer will not just ensure people stop dying from lack of health care. Zhulik posted:Good thing the chart is about people dying from lack of health insurance specifically, or else that guy would really have egg on his face! "Why Trump won" indeed!
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Jun 23, 2017 00:13
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I heard the best comment today, corporate Democrats have become so technocratic they don't believe in the halting problem.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:13
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Glazier posted:I heard the best comment today, corporate Democrats have become so technocratic they don't believe in the halting problem. Lmao
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Jun 23, 2017 00:15
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Zhulik posted:Good thing the chart is about people dying from lack of health insurance specifically, or else that guy would really have egg on his face! It's a disingenuous graph. People would still be dying. People dying from lack of healthcare goes beyond whether or not they are insured.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:26
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Lol ok Raul Labrador. Tell me more about how people don't die from lack of health care
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Jun 23, 2017 00:28
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:It's a disingenuous graph. People would still be dying. In what way is it claiming that single payer would end people dying from lack of health care?
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Jun 23, 2017 00:29
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:It's a disingenuous graph. People would still be dying. Yes, what the graph is claiming is that if we pass single payer, death will be abolished now and forever. Amazing.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:06
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:It's a disingenuous graph. People would still be dying.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:10
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:It's a disingenuous graph. People would still be dying. I extremely agree. While we're on the subject -- how hosed up is it that things cease to exist as soon as they leave my field of vision and why did grandpa steal my ear quarter??
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Jun 23, 2017 01:12
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Is this going to be some really dumb pedantic objection like "well even single payer wouldn't spend $GDP to keep a terminally ill patient alive for an extra pain-wracked hour therefore they were murdered by socialism" ?
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Jun 23, 2017 01:20
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Majorian posted:In what way is it claiming that single payer would end people dying from lack of health care? It's happening in the uk.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:23
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Iron stache is already a bought and paid for centrist fraud. smh here's hoping a workplace accident takes care of him soon enough.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:23
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:It's happening in the uk. That's not what I asked. Bad troll.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:30
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Um, ThisIsWhyTrumpWon is kinda correct about that graph being disingenuous. If you want to make the point better, there's no reason not to just compare deaths caused by inadequate health care (since the whole health-related* reason lack of insurance is bad is that it results in people not getting care). * Of course it's also bad because of its negative economic effects, but that's a separate issue Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 01:50
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I have to ask, what's the B/K/M thread poll about
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Jun 23, 2017 01:54
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Bang, kill, marry, I think.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:58
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:14 |
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It's Bow, Kiss or Murder. Being the darling of the left, many posters in this thread would gladly kiss Tom Perez for the incredible service he has done getting the Democrats back into fighting shape.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:01
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