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Strom Cuzewon posted:For people who's GCSE English was a long time ago, the title of the episode "World enough and time" isn't just a snazzy description of the episode, but is also the opening line of the fabulous poem "To His Coy Mistress" which can basically be summarised as "you should totally sleep with me, cos you'll be dead eventually" Several centuries from now there'll be a Doctor Who episode titled,"You want sum fuk?"
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Jun 26, 2017 09:30
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Doctor Spaceman posted:To be fair to Ainley it's not a bad direction to take the character, and it suited the stories he was in. Oh, please don't get me wrong, I thought Ainley was great. I love him being just an utter arsehole playing really dickish pranks on the Doctor throughout 5, 6 and 7's tenure. He's the only thing I enjoy in Time-Flight, particularly that it makes very little sense that he'd even bother to disguise himself (which this last episode feels like a bit of a nod toward). Ainley obviously CAN do more with the role, as he's a lot less cartoonish in Logopolis, Castrovalva and Survival, but I like the scenery chewing.
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Jun 26, 2017 09:36
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And the actual explanation be damned, I still say the Ainley-Master went to the trouble of making a cardboard cutout of himself and propped it up in a doorway behind the Doctor so he could go take a nap.
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Jun 26, 2017 09:39
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Jerusalem posted:And the actual explanation be damned, I still say the Ainley-Master went to the trouble of making a cardboard cutout of himself and propped it up in a doorway behind the Doctor so he could go take a nap. Context?
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Jun 26, 2017 09:57
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CobiWann posted:Context? The fight on the transmitter tower during Logopolis.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:09
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I think the dialogue this series has been superb. I wasn't crazy about the comic interjections in a way, but they were really well done. I'm very excited about Simm, Capaldi and Gomez together, the talent is RIDICULOUS. NarkyBark posted:Already been said 100 times but both major reveals in this episode should've remained hidden until airing. I imagine the thread would've gone nuts like it did for Night of the Doctor. I suspect a lot of the stuff getting out as it has done, is damage control from production. There was definitely Commotion in the office the day they officially announced Jenna was leaving, so I can only assume it got out somehow and they were trying to avoid being beaten to the punch. I do feel bad for production from that point of view. It's so hard to make anything in isolation these days. People will leak whatever they can for internet points, it's such a shame. The guy who posts second/third hand production rumours on here, I don't really get it. He's had a hit rate of about 50% which tells me his source is at least once removed, but I don't get the value in being the guy who Might Have Been A Bit Right About Doctor Who 5 Weeks Before Most People Knew About it. It's funny how it's different for different shows, though; RD XII was filmed in front of a live audience 18 months ago and no-one has leaked anything out about that - because it's not as popular as it used to be - and I've been on Black Mirror 4 for 6 months and not even seen a whisper of a hint of a rumour online, because Netflix is Very Scary and will murder everyone you love. Maera Sior posted:Any chance of an explanation? Rock sets have always bothered me as well. Well I think they key thing to remember that even in a year's worth of production you only really ever have a couple of weeks to make anything. (The big exception this year was Pickwoad's Bloody Large Bridge). As with most TV shows, everything is divided into blocks of episodes, and you'll get the next set of scripts amid shooting whatever you're currently doing, so: - Draft script arrives ~6 weeks before you shoot it (and that's being generous with DW) - Director arrives in the office at around the same time - Scripts are broken down and preliminary designs/costings are worked out (while working on the actual episodes filming downstairs) - Costings are stamped to death by production - New drafts of script arrive based on director requests, unfinished plots (*cough*), budget requirements - Restart above process - Locations start to be found at ~4 weeks - Final designs are drawn up for sets based on said locations or budgets (after waiting on various approvals), this takes us to ~3 weeks. - Technical issues (if any) are worked out - how do we do x, what new materials to we invest into to achieve y, etc. - Construction starts on 5-day week basis - Allot ~3-5 days in that for Things To Go Wrong, Things Not To Arrive, or Director / Producer / Production To Decide They Want It To Look Different etc,. What that really means is that you get about 10-12 full working days to make a massive stonehenge set, and you can't chuck shitloads of people at it because people cost quite a bit of money. Had everything been approved, say, 6 weeks in advance you'd get a much more convincing style of rock, maybe more convincingly worked into the scenery and engraved etc. If it was a studio set then you can do tests under controlled lighting to make it look more convincing. If you're outdoors there's only so much you can do... Our caves and rocks and poo poo looked a lot better on Atlantis, but I remember we had about 2 months of construction prep time and a full team working on them. Cave sets really take a lot.* Our henge was poly-carved, but we've done caves as sprayed polyuretheane, plaster, foam etc. There's a lot of ways to approach the making of a cave, I could talk about it a lot. Shows evolve their own eco-system in terms of timings and how departments worked. If we had more lead time, that would mean bringing on Directors, script editors, locations etc sooner, which has a cost of X per week per person, so there would be less money to go around, so the result would look less good because of the budget cuts. They're self-levelling I suppose, once the machine starts it works how it works and you can't really change it. On a feature film you spend 18 months making 2.5hs of final product. On DW you spend 8 months making 13 hours of product. Important to note that this + the Mars caves were much, MUCH better than the Zygon egg cave which was actually the Viking Great Hall from the ep previous sprayed brown with loads of foam and brown sheeting. Jerusalem posted:This was a visually stunning episode in addition to being well written and acted. Suffered from the usual Clunky Spaceship Desks which is standard DW, because carpentry is difficult and expensive, but otherwise, oosh, very nice looking episode. The whole series has been really pretty, even with much loftier ambitions than S9. Is it me or has the CG really gone up a notch too? All of Hayley's costumes for Bill this series have been cracking, too. Interested to see what the new design team do but I think we did really well on 10. I'll really, really miss it - I gave two years of my life to that show (and roughly 120 hours spent on the M4), and it's done me so well. Met some really thunderously good human beings, I helped get two people's careers moving on it, and it taught me to do so many things I couldn't do (at gunpoint). *which is why I think we did period better than future a lot of the time. When you go period, you use a lot of natural materials and props that have texture, patina etc built in, and you can exaggerate it from effect. When you do a spaceship, you are starting from a blank MDF canvass so you have much more to do within the same amount of time/money. echoplex fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 10:15
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echoplex posted:I think the dialogue this series has been superb. I did notice it's been quite sweary this season. All the 'bloody hell's and Missy's 'don't be a bitch', stuff like that.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:38
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Pearl's "no poo poo" made me laff. I hope there are big things in her future, she's ace.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:56
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echoplex posted:Pearl's "no poo poo" made me laff. No she isn't, she's Bill 
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Jun 26, 2017 11:28
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echoplex posted:It's funny how it's different for different shows, though; RD XII was filmed in front of a live audience 18 months ago and no-one has leaked anything out about that - because it's not as popular as it used to be - and I've been on Black Mirror 4 for 6 months and not even seen a whisper of a hint of a rumour online, because Netflix is Very Scary and will murder everyone you love. Even Doctor Who manages to avoid leaks coming from an audience. The first episode of series seven had a handful of advance screenings around the world something like a month before it aired, and I was lucky enough to attend one of them. There was a big twist in the episode that they really didn't want to get out. They didn't make us sign NDAs or anything, but they asked us really nicely not to say anything. And it worked. Word of the twist never got out. I think it's just different kinds of people who would go to a screening or live taping vs those who want to leak info.
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Jun 26, 2017 12:19
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Diabolik900 posted:They didn't make us sign NDAs or anything, but they asked us really nicely not to say anything. Wasn't it that Matt Smith himself asked you all not to spill? And who could deny him?
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Jun 26, 2017 12:39
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Astroman posted:it's implied this is done on purpose by cishet writers who hate gays, but if someone calls this out as dumb we hear "nobody is saying this." That isn't what's implied at all, which is why you hear "nobody is saying this," because they aren't saying it. That you have made it your personal crusade to argue against a phantom because of your obtuse inability to engage with complexity is nobody's fault but your own, and it makes you look abysmally stupid. echoplex posted:Pearl's "no poo poo" made me laff. Yeah, she was fantastic. One thing I really liked was how, despite this being Capaldi's last season, they gave Pearl a lot of chances to carry the episode. It never felt like she was getting sidelined.
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Jun 26, 2017 13:47
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So does this fall under the "David Warner makes everything awesome" rule? https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/coming-soon---king-lear
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Jun 26, 2017 14:59
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Bicyclops posted:That isn't what's implied at all, which is why you hear "nobody is saying this," because they aren't saying it. That you have made it your personal crusade to argue against a phantom because of your obtuse inability to engage with complexity is nobody's fault but your own, and it makes you look abysmally stupid. Be fair, Doctor What kind of is.
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Jun 26, 2017 15:33
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Bill shouldn't die because we've barely gotten to know her and she's a good character who probably has a lot more stories in her.
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Jun 26, 2017 16:44
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I'll be damned if the best companion since Donna Noble gets killed off, when the last one got immortality, a Tardis, and a loving Game of Thrones cast member!
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Jun 26, 2017 16:46
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Mind Loving Owl posted:I'll be damned if the best companion since Donna Noble gets killed off I didn't get the sense that Nardole was in any danger. (I don't want Bill to die either, obv.)
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Jun 26, 2017 16:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:Bill shouldn't die because we've barely gotten to know her and she's a good character who probably has a lot more stories in her. Not anymore she doesn't, not with that hole in her chest  .
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Jun 26, 2017 16:54
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It'd be nice if Bill got a sweet, low-key send-off like becoming a professor in the university she currently caters for.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:03
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Bill actually adapts to being Cyber-Bill, gets a few upgrades, and goes back in time to save the Doctor from his worst fate by blasting a console, thus ensuring that the Doctor is free from Adric.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:18
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Excellent episode but I didn't like the zoom into Bill's tearful eye at the end. The horrible thing about conversion is that it replaces the body with metal and plastic until not much of the original is left. The Mondasian cybermen definitely give that impression. The look at Bill as a cyberman just gave the impression that she was inside a suit rather than fully converted. I would like her to survive as herself as well, I just don't know how they will do that without negating what has happened. If Clara had been converted, I doubt anyone would have been able to tell the difference. Earlier in the thread before we had seen her, I said that on the strength of the preview clips, I found her irritating. I'm happy that my first impressions were very very wrong.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:23
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Was the teardrop on the rim supposed to match up with the teardrop on the eye of the current cybermen? (sorry if this is a phenomenally obvious question, I don't know my cybamans)
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Jun 26, 2017 17:36
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echoplex posted:Was the teardrop on the rim supposed to match up with the teardrop on the eye of the current cybermen? (sorry if this is a phenomenally obvious question, I don't know my cybamans) I got the feeling it was supposed to be indicative of it, but not be a perfect 1-1 match.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:40
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Their going to mulch Bill to put her out of her misery, and out of the soil, she will sprout anew. Bill will be the first Cyberman, and the first Saibaman.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:43
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My guess, assuming that this doesn't end with the usual NO ONE GETS TO BE HAPPY EVER EVER EVER sendoff that Revival-era companions usually get (seriously, it's not even just a Moffat thing), is that Bill gets rebuilt as a cybernetic version of herself a la Nardole.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:44
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Missy gives regeneration power to the Doctor as she turns on Master at some point. Doctor regens into Bill.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:59
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docbeard posted:My guess, assuming that this doesn't end with the usual NO ONE GETS TO BE HAPPY EVER EVER EVER sendoff that Revival-era companions usually get (seriously, it's not even just a Moffat thing), is that Bill gets rebuilt as a cybernetic version of herself a la Nardole. They're not generally that sad, in the end- Rose got to live with her family and skinny boyfriend, Donna won the lottery, Martha was successfully absorbed by the military-industrial complex, Amy and Rory grew old on hardboiled detective novel royalties, River got to spend 24 years having sex with Peter Capaldi, and Clara got to wiggle around with Maisie Williams in her very own Tardis.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:51
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I listened to The Jago & Litefoot Revival Act. That was lovely and quite surprising.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:51
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2house2fly posted:They're not generally that sad, in the end- Rose got to live with her family and skinny boyfriend, Donna won the lottery, Martha was successfully absorbed by the military-industrial complex, Amy and Rory grew old on hardboiled detective novel royalties, River got to spend 24 years having sex with Peter Capaldi, and Clara got to wiggle around with Maisie Williams in her very own Tardis. https://68.media.tumblr.com/ce9172dc00c351eb88b8a4fc30d035bb/tumblr_o4eko3yOLy1sw4g05o1_400.gif
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Jun 26, 2017 18:56
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Plavski posted:https://68.media.tumblr.com/ce9172dc00c351eb88b8a4fc30d035bb/tumblr_o4eko3yOLy1sw4g05o1_400.gif I really want that actor to come back in some episode, about to reveal himself to have been the mastermind behind some scheme to get the Doctor, and just as he begins to launch into his monologue, he gets shot by a Dalek before he can open his mouth.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:57
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I could see Missy enjoying the idea of goodness simply because a good man can often do worse things in the name of what's right than Missy does for giggles. A Good Man got the Daleks eaten by their own sewers once you know... Evil is a gateway drug to goodness...
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Jun 26, 2017 19:00
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Bicyclops posted:I really want that actor to come back in some episode, about to reveal himself to have been the mastermind behind some scheme to get the Doctor, and just as he begins to launch into his monologue, he gets shot by a Dalek before he can open his mouth.  
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Jun 26, 2017 19:04
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Bicyclops posted:I really want that actor to come back in some episode, about to reveal himself to have been the mastermind behind some scheme to get the Doctor, and just as he begins to launch into his monologue, he gets shot by a Dalek before he can open his mouth. At the end of the Eccleston season, when you hear the booming Dalek Emperor say 'they survived through [i]me' they used that line in the Next Time trailer without showing who said it. People were theorising it was Adam coming back, transformed by some means.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:11
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The_Doctor posted:At the end of the Eccleston season, when you hear the booming Dalek Emperor say 'they survived through [i]me' they used that line in the Next Time trailer without showing who said it. People were theorising it was Adam coming back, transformed by some means. Adam will return, as Sutekh the Destroyer! In a tag-team with the Fendahl, the Rani and the Slitheen.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:26
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2house2fly posted:They're not generally that sad, in the end- Rose got to live with her family and skinny boyfriend, Donna won the lottery, Martha was successfully absorbed by the military-industrial complex, Amy and Rory grew old on hardboiled detective novel royalties, River got to spend 24 years having sex with Peter Capaldi, and Clara got to wiggle around with Maisie Williams in her very own Tardis. All things considered yeah none of these are really sad. Just kind of sad from the Doctor's perspective since they are lost to him. Bill would be the first New Who companion to outright die. I don't think she will die though. It's too easy to just hand wave some things away. She will end up as cyber Bill, unable to return to Earth but okay and out there having adventures. If anything i would like to see them do a story where the companion dies and there are consequences, but with one episode before a new Doctor and a new show runner, this is definitely not the right time for it.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO0CGeNe-lY
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Jun 26, 2017 20:07
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I assumed that since we see her human eye and human face, that she hasn't been wholly converted as we understand it. Maybe this is an early prototype version of that and it's reversible.
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Jun 26, 2017 22:42
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This was literally the best episode of Doctor Who since Utopia. I guess a John Simm reveal is the secret to a good episode.
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Jun 26, 2017 22:45
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I dunno, I think that might have topped Heaven Sent for me as the best episode of the revival. Maybe it's because I have such a huge boner for Spare Parts, but I found the whole thing pretty flawless. And as someone who's just been on holiday for a week and forgot clean about the Mondas cybermen and John Simm's Master, I actually was surprised by the reveals.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:01
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HopperUK posted:I assumed that since we see her human eye and human face, that she hasn't been wholly converted as we understand it. Maybe this is an early prototype version of that and it's reversible. I believe Mondasian Cybermen always were human inside their suits? There's just enough robotics in their bodies to make them emotionless and stronger. As opposed to the Cybermen from the new series where they just put human brains inside robots.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:02
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