Ytlaya posted:

Liberals enjoy the feeling of finding common ground with their ideological opponents, because they feel like doing so intrinsically makes them more open-minded and reasonable. I think that there's also some sort of sense that, by ceding ground on some issues, they can gain a sort of "political capital" to use later in a discussion (for example "I acknowledged this aspect of your argument so surely you should acknowledge some aspect of mine in return"). Both these things are understandable feelings to have, but they're obviously still dumb and wrong.

Ultimately, this is a reflection of the fact that liberals have no real ideology or conviction of their own beyond opposition to elements of other peoples' ideologies. They know that they dislike some things conservatives want*, but they don't really have any ideal for how the future should be that goes beyond repelling threats to the status quo. Sometimes they might say something about wanting to revive New Deal policies, but generally speaking this only comes up if you specifically pressure them to articulate their ideal future; if left to their own devices, liberals will almost always choose to focus all their effort on condemning Republicans.

*And honestly I think a lot of this is dependent upon cultural identifiers. Someone who identifies as a liberal and doesn't have various characteristics associated with being conservative (like being old, white, and generally socially conservative) can get away with proposing the same sort of stuff as conservatives, provided they avoid any sort of language that overtly sounds conservative (*cough* Jon Ossoff *cough*). The same thing is true for conservatives, who are often willing to consider liberal ideas as long as they're wrapped up in language they haven't already been taught to disagree with.

Kjoery posted:

conservatives don't actually care for Sorkin's dumb rules, if you own them with Reason and Logic, they're not going to say "oh, well, ya got me" - they're going to deflect and filibuster. compromising on one bill won't mean that you'll gain ground in others, because they don't care. this applies to the tactics the Skeptics employ as well - intellectual honesty means very little to them, as long as it means they can "Win". people who strive to maintain convictions and Play By The Rules are incredibly disadvantaged against such tactics.

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Yeah people get shot in the back of the head at 4am for no real reason

Ytlaya posted:

And honestly the conservatives are right in this strategy; it just so happens that the underlying ideology driving their actions is terrible and harmful. But if you actually believe that your ideas are good for society, shouldn't you do whatever you can to actually implement them?

Kjoery posted:

while authoritarian conservatives are a dime a dozen in my experience, i've met very few leftists with a "the ends justify the means" philosophy - think of all the nerd media we've consumed that have taught us the intricacies of complex moral dilemmas with no simple solution. what would Jean Luc Picard do???

but hey, maybe this political climate will iron out all those pesky virtues. ive been pretty conflicted myself, as of late.

Kjoery posted:

i think chapo was pretty on point when they identified shows like The West Wing to be everything that's wrong with the liberal perception on how politics works

conservatives don't actually care for Sorkin's dumb rules, if you own them with Reason and Logic, they're not going to say "oh, well, ya got me" - they're going to deflect and filibuster. compromising on one bill won't mean that you'll gain ground in others, because they don't care. this applies to the tactics the Skeptics employ as well - intellectual honesty means very little to them, as long as it means they can "Win". people who strive to maintain convictions and Play By The Rules are incredibly disadvantaged against such tactics.

Kjoery posted:

while authoritarian conservatives are a dime a dozen in my experience, i've met very few leftists with a "the ends justify the means" philosophy - think of all the nerd media we've consumed that have taught us the intricacies of complex moral dilemmas with no simple solution. what would Jean Luc Picard do???

but hey, maybe this political climate will iron out all those pesky virtues. ive been pretty conflicted myself, as of late.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah pretty much. the show is just about jerking off to procedure and authority and all the pomp and ritual while having no real political opinions of there own but only caring about how "intelgently and whitty" the arguments are. i mean gently caress, game of thrones has more realistic politics then west wing.

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

i probably should have seen this coming

quote:

CARL: Well, no, the minorities aren't being treated that way [discriminated against], that's the thing - we don't have racial --- the US doesn't have racially discriminatory laws. These people are making this poo poo up, and they're using it as a weapon.
MADDOX: [sits respectfully. silently. this is normal]

Kjoery posted:

Jumped to a random point, and yup - I like how these hacks just let him say this poo poo

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Yeah people get shot in the back of the head at 4am for no real reason

Groovelord Neato posted:

sargon is right in the sense that laws are not literally written as discriminatory but for anyone with a working brain you can see that since the outcome is discriminatory that would mean that the laws themselves are discriminatory. even that point is moot because the much larger issue is enforcement.

Groovelord Neato posted:

sargon would make a good supreme court justice.

Kjoery posted:

while authoritarian conservatives are a dime a dozen in my experience, i've met very few leftists with a "the ends justify the means" philosophy - think of all the nerd media we've consumed that have taught us the intricacies of complex moral dilemmas with no simple solution. what would Jean Luc Picard do???

but hey, maybe this political climate will iron out all those pesky virtues. ive been pretty conflicted myself, as of late.

Ratoslov posted:

Maybe black people don't commit more crimes, maybe they're just worse at it. Like, genetically incompetent at criminal enterprise.

Mr Interweb posted:

That NoBullshit guy literally said that the reason Blacks get arrested more is because they're too dumb and careless and thus get caught easier (he used the examples of smoking joints out in the open and making their guns visible from their pockets).

Mr Interweb posted:

I just got home and actually watched the video with your timestamp, and I have to say, Maddox, to his credit, actually does push back quite a bit. I don't know if that's his own views, or if was playing devil's advocate, but he did make an attempt to argue for the other side.

Verisimilidude posted:

Aggressively bad, alt-right, mush-mouthed YouTuber "The Atheist Gamer" (the guy who doxxes preteen girls, hates women (except for those demure Asian women, you see), and made a video about how making GBS threads your pants is a normal thing for a twenty-something to do) makes a video about how his subscribers don't support him enough, and maybe if they paid him more money on Patreon he'd finally be able to stop living with his mommy.

https://youtu.be/xfq0MJyiV4U

Also he made another video about how he's leaving the skeptic community because he doxxed someone and they got mad, but it's their fault for not being more accepting of him and his radical ideas on feminism (that, for example, "it's bad").

OwlFancier posted:

I mean I guess if you have violent diarrhea it might be understandable but I don't know if "normal" is how I'd describe it.

NikkolasKing posted:

Liberals cede ground too easily. They've already accepted Ronald Reagan as not pure evil and they are now saying Bush Jr. wasn't so bad, he was just surrounded by a cabal of evil geniuses.

10 years from now, "was Trump that bad?"

Mr Interweb posted:

Isn't Maddox a libertarian? This is fairly - if not sadly- unsurprising.

aware of dog posted:

Uhhh, come again?

Kjoery posted:

Did he, though? His response seemed pretty freakin' softball to me. If someone makes a claim as absurd and blatantly false as "All minorities are lying about discrimination in order to Keep The White Man Down", you press that motherfucker hard. Maybe I didn't watch long enough, but jesus christ.

Symbolic Butt posted:

Nah, Maddox is mostly liberal even if he doesn't like to admit it. He used to be like "both sides are wrong" but mostly sided with "conservatives are wrong". He had a fallout with his former cohost Dick Masterson. There was a clear ideological conflict between them: Dick was a libertarian and a huge Trump supporter.

It's been a while since I listened to his podcast but I'm absolutely surprised Maddox is getting involved with Sargon and kekistan poo poo.

Symbolic Butt posted:

Nah, Maddox is mostly liberal even if he doesn't like to admit it. He used to be like "both sides are wrong" but mostly sided with "conservatives are wrong". He had a fallout with his former cohost Dick Masterson. There was a clear ideological conflict between them: Dick was a libertarian and a huge Trump supporter.

It's been a while since I listened to his podcast but I'm absolutely surprised Maddox is getting involved with Sargon and kekistan poo poo.

Mr Interweb posted:

Who's that other rear end in a top hat in that linked video?

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

perhaps he just sees himself as intellectual? Trumps anti-intellectual, Sargon pretends to be one, so there's a sort of consistency there.

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qEwRZ0PziA

yass slay queen

quote:

Why is everyone so afraid of this Anita bitch? I say we just hang this bitch upside down by her pussy lips!!

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qEwRZ0PziA

yass slay queen

From Boogie's comments section posted:

Verisimilidude posted:

Do you all think this anti-sjw thing is dying out? I feel like I rarely hear people complaining about SJWs these days outside of very specific areas where that kind of talk is considered "acceptable". The fervor seems to have died down in favor of people making fun of popular alt-right figures who are demonstrably bad and easy to make fun of. Like the big targets these days for railing against feminism/sjws are relatively unknown, or they're yesterday's news and have actually managed to break past their original hang-ups and became stronger figures in their respective fields. The alt-right/anti-SJW crowd has always and will always continue to be a bunch of edgelord white dudes.

Al-Saqr posted:

They haven't died down, they just morphed into good old fashioned right wing fascist white nationalist racism in all its forms. They've widened their hit list to muslims, gays, brown people, refugees, Jews, the left as a whole, etc. they've actually become a bigger problem because the mysoginy hasn't decreased it's just become part of their giant poo poo soup instead of all of it. They've become gateway drugs to drag thousands of retard loser shitheads into those ideas.

Al-Saqr posted:

They haven't died down, they just morphed into good old fashioned right wing fascist white nationalist racism in all its forms. They've widened their hit list to muslims, gays, brown people, refugees, Jews, the left as a whole, etc. they've actually become a bigger problem because the mysoginy hasn't decreased it's just become part of their giant poo poo soup instead of all of it. They've become gateway drugs to drag thousands of retard loser shitheads into those ideas.