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All of the little touches to that last dungeon are fuego. Really this whole expansion has kicked rear end.
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Jun 27, 2017 08:59
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SonicRulez posted:All of the little touches to that last dungeon are fuego. Really this whole expansion has kicked rear end. This is variable depending on your main because a lot of the story hype and joy of the experience faded once I got a grasp on what they did to DRG. It is perhaps telling that it hasn't been mentioned once in all the class complaint arguments in the last few pages, because there isn't an argument to have--it's just bad. I didn't expect to be playing this much after the rush to 70 but here I am leveling NIN in case the Omega patch does nothing. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 09:03
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I'd happily switch from MNK to SAM if they just add a sword with a fist on the end of it.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:03
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ApplesandOranges posted:The 60 MCH experience going forward has been pretty good if only because every couple levels you get something that makes your rotation even better. So how is MCH at 70, anyway? It seems slightly better now but I'm not sure. I mean it's doing completely rear end DPS but if it's fun to play then that's what matters. Is it fun?
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Jun 27, 2017 09:08
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Mister Olympus posted:This is variable depending on your main because a lot of the story hype and experience faded once I got a grasp on what they did to DRG. ...Please explain further. I was incredibly disappointed in how it was changed at 60, but I was still holding out hope in it becoming good again by level 70.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:11
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I've done it probably 5 times in roulettes by now and never had enormous issues with the final trial. Maybe being a healer makes it more stable since you have the most power to make up for other people's mistakes. I also did Susano EX with a bunch of randoms who were all first timers with 0 idea about the mechanics, it took a few hours and a couple dozen wipes but nobody got mad or left at any point and eventually we pulled it off. Extremely cool and chill people, every one.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:20
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What in the world is all this I'm hearing about people using old i270 slaying accessories while tanking current content? Did SE gently caress something up and I didn't notice, or is this an overreaction to the change that reverted tank damage stats?
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Jun 27, 2017 09:23
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Break a leg!
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I wish spearfishing was a little bit less utter garbage
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Jun 27, 2017 09:28
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That's fair, I guess. My main is NIN, so I had a blast. Just finished the final trial and holy poo poo what the gently caress. The extreme version of that fight will cause tears. I mean we got it on the 2nd try with a 1/2 goon 1/2 pug party, but still. Yikes. My humble brag is that I didn't get carried. I died a lot in the 1st, but not at all in the 2nd. Speaking of, are there some actually good 70 NIN in this thread? I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't really really know when to use Ten Chi Jin vs Bhavacakra or how you're meant to fit all that poo poo into one Trick Attack window.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:30
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Kanfy posted:I've done it probably 5 times in roulettes by now and never had enormous issues with the final trial. Maybe being a healer makes it more stable since you have the most power to make up for other people's mistakes. It helps, but even as a healer you can just get overwhelmed. On SCH it was no fun at all in parties where I had to keep rezzing people who died to mechanics. It was okay once I had a party with a RDM taking care of rezzing so I could actually spend MP on healing. It's cool and challenging and whatever other buzzwords one wants to throw at it, but IMO it's absolutely not the right thing for random parties (especially since it doesn't have echo). It's fun if your party is good, but can quickly turn into an absolute shitshow if it's not.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:49
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Unlike HW, the final trial in SB can and will kick your teeth in if you aren't somewhat competent at this game. Which is great because if you've managed to get this far, you should be able to handle this.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:01
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Eopia posted:...Please explain further. I was incredibly disappointed in how it was changed at 60, but I was still holding out hope in it becoming good again by level 70. Let's do a little summation like the SCH thing upthread-- WHAT WENT WRONG: -DRG is currently the DPS most punished by phase transitions or being randomly selected for mechanics; if you drop Blood of the Dragon, your accumulated eyes fade. This is even stranger in the context of similar mechanics: Black Mage doesn't lose Polyglot if Enochian drops, for example, and Samurai is outright rewarded with meter for having downtime through Meditate. Hell, even Monk has Form Shift, Perfect Balance, and now Riddle of Earth to help it maintain during things like that--the DRG equivalent is if you had to start over from Bootshine every time to get Greased Lightning back up like in 2.0. Something like Susano's sword is a constant struggle to not lose all your progress, and you find yourself having to give things like Heavy Thrust up for the phase just to maintain your timer, where for a Samurai the first sword is a chance to poo poo out hilarious damage (as is their norm) and the second is a convenient prep window for doing the same thing when Susano reappears. -On top of this, your burst periods are somewhat unintuitively disconnected from your opener, making it a gamble as to whether you'll have everything in order to take full advantage of Nastrond depending on what a fight will make you do. -Therefore, it's also the third weakest DPS in terms of output, and weakest melee overall. Granted, part of that is because Ninja is bugged in such a way that some of its abilities are doing more damage than intended--but even if they were on par... -Its support is incredibly underwhelming compared to Ninja's. 5% damage to the highest DPS for 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes, 20% raid-wide crit on a longer timer, and 5% persistent damage to the absolute lowest DPS (as Bard and Machinist were hit even harder potency-wise) does not remotely stack up to 10% raid-wide DPS for 10 seconds every 60 seconds and allowing the tank to trivially maintain DPS stance. On some levels, this speaks a bit to how good Trick is rather than how bad Dragon Sight is, but even Brotherhood is competitive with Dragoon's whole kit, and Monks are actually doing their intended (higher than Dragoon) amount of damage. -So it's mechanically strictly inferior to Ninja, but at least it's fun to play, right? Wrong. Mirage Dive and Nastrond are satisfying in concept, but beyond the high level of punishment for being inflicted with things beyond your control mentioned above, the timers seem purposefully designed to trip people up and force them to hold oGCDs in order to not lose damage; there are plenty of periods where you'll be sitting on four eyes waiting for Geirskogul, which stops you from using jumps for fear of using Mirage Dive when full on eyes and wasting one. Blood for Blood's damage boost being split between it and Dragon Sight is annoying when there's no guarantee you'll be sitting next to the right person, or close enough, to execute your opener completely. This is especially a problem in dungeons: Randos won't get the idea to follow you around for damage, and most bosses are too big to tether to the tank. HOW IT COULD BE FIXED: -Make Blood of the Dragon a meter rather than a timer. -Make it so that if you lose Blood of the Dragon, you don't also lose your eyes. -Make Life only require 2 or 3 eyes; reduce Nastrond's damage if you have to, just make it make sense with the amount of jumps we're able to do. -Allow Dragonfire Dive to enable Mirage Dive. Or maybe also let Dragon Sight grant an eye--it'd even make thematic sense, and doing both would even let you keep eyes required at 4 because then the opener builds 4 eyes! -Change Geirskogul's timer to either 30 or 40 seconds, with the appropriate potency alteration. -Keep Dragon Sight effective only within a 6 yalm range if you must, but at least enable it to be used from a longer distance so we're not dependent on people gluing themselves to us for 3 GCDs. Or just make it a simple raid buff. -Remove the animation lock on Mirage Dive so we don't get unsightly and unintuitive oGCD logjams. This feeds into the opener issue; if we were able to weave MD, we could do a nice smooth Jump->Geirs+MD->DFD->Spineshatter->LS+MD, as opposed to the drawn out jump->MD->Spineshatter->DFD->LS+Geirs->MD (likely loses your damage buffs). This would, however, require Life to activate without being locked to Geirs, which is itself another good idea that would enable Geirs to keep its current potency and timer. -Give us back 10% Disembowel; God knows Bard and Machinist need the help as much as we do. -just loving make stuff hit harder Any one or two of these proposals would do a lot for Dragoon; all of them would even be too much--but it says a lot that every DRG main I've talked to has their own set of perfectly valid and reasonable ways that the job could be fixed, and though they all differ in substance, they all hit on these same themes. MY ADVICE TO YOU: Start leveling whichever of NIN or SAM your static doesn't have. MNK if you feel like it. I find it plausible--even likely--that there will be balance and QoL changes coming with Omega Normal, or Savage at the latest, but it doesn't hurt to hedge your bets. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 10:09
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The running animation with guns is great, unless you're using a gun designed to be comically small, in which case it looks dumb.  
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Jun 27, 2017 10:14
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Thumbtacks posted:So how is MCH at 70, anyway? It seems slightly better now but I'm not sure. I mean it's doing completely rear end DPS but if it's fun to play then that's what matters. Is it fun? General consensus is that the actual results are a bit lackluster, and the reward-risk ratio is pretty paltry, especially compared to BRD and its million and one utility options. That said, running on all cylinders feels pretty great, and you're not as do-or-die by Wildfire like in HW. 64/66 is pretty much how you should gauge if you like the job or not, since Overload is terrible and Flamethrower doesn't really do anything in serious fights (unless you've somehow landed the scenario of overheating and with Barrel Stabilizer on cooldown). If nothing else, MCH is very good in PvP. And it's a pretty fun job overall.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:16
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Just got to Stormblood tonight! Can't wait to take back Ala Mhigo with my comb-raids.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:23
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The game looks rad when you turn the Ui off and switch to first person perspective.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:25
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ApplesandOranges posted:If nothing else, MCH is (...) a pretty fun job overall. Problem is... yeah both it and BRD kind of hit like kittens and BRD definitely has more utility. I think I like playing MCH more right now though, when it was the opposite in Heavensward.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:31
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ChocNitty posted:The game looks rad when you turn the Ui off and switch to first person perspective. For extra fun times, try doing EX primals that way! The Football School special! (I don't recommend attempting this as healer).
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Jun 27, 2017 10:32
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New Cool And Good Tank Class for Stormblood, the Artificer. Complete with his own Chainsaw Gunsword, just like Squall from The Stepchild of Final Fantasy Games.
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Jun 27, 2017 10:43
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Mister Olympus posted:This is variable depending on your main because a lot of the story hype and joy of the experience faded once I got a grasp on what they did to DRG. Hey, I hate my old main too but I can still distance myself from it. After loving ARR and Heavensward Summoner, I find SB Summoner janky and viscerally unfun. Hasn't really hurt my perception of the expansion, I shrugged and moved on to one of the other Jobs I play and enjoy. Sooner or later there was going to be an expansion where my Job of choice was reinterpreted in a way I didn't like. It sucks that expansion was this one but eh, life goes on and the actual content is still great.
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Jun 27, 2017 11:02
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Fridurmus posted:What in the world is all this I'm hearing about people using old i270 slaying accessories while tanking current content? Did SE gently caress something up and I didn't notice, or is this an overreaction to the change that reverted tank damage stats? I'm a Warrior. I gave myself a 3 minute parse with new fending accessories and hit just above 2400 then switched to i270 slaying and was pushing 3000. I've got the Susano axe since then but that's a pretty big difference! e: I figure they'll lock all slaying accessories rather than change the formulae again at this point, but if they revert the formula change entirely that'll be fine too. I believe you can meld more strength onto the new crafted than the 270's have, but that would be absurdly expensive. I'll be surprised if they don't address it going into Omega. Mystic Cave zOWNd fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 11:03
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SonicRulez posted:Speaking of, are there some actually good 70 NIN in this thread? I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't really really know when to use Ten Chi Jin vs Bhavacakra or how you're meant to fit all that poo poo into one Trick Attack window. Using Ten Chi Jin during trick attack is generally not advisable, because it means you hard casted suiton. If you did, say, Raiton into TCJ, and use TA off of that suiton, it's 180 more potency, which is bigger than you'd get from fitting TCJ into the TA window anyway, and you clip GCDs less. But since the CDs are offset, you can't always use TCJ like that, it's just a nice bonus when it happens. Basically, just use it whenever you have the opportunity. Because of the interaction between ninki usage and the cooldown, it's not practical to try use Bhava on CD to squeeze out more of them, so you might as well try to line it up with TA. You usually get four autoattacks in your TA window, so plan your usage accordingly. If holding Bhava for TA would make you waste more than 11 ninki from capping, it's better to just blow it. VHGS fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 11:07
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ApplesandOranges posted:General consensus is that the actual results are a bit lackluster, and the reward-risk ratio is pretty paltry, especially compared to BRD and its million and one utility options. I mean if it's fun, that's what matters. What's MCH AoE, anyway? AoE turret and Spread Shot while you keep HS up and make sure your heat doesn't gently caress up?
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Jun 27, 2017 11:30
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Thumbtacks posted:I mean if it's fun, that's what matters. Captain Oblivious posted:Hey, I hate my old main too but I can still distance myself from it. After loving ARR and Heavensward Summoner, I find SB Summoner janky and viscerally unfun. Hasn't really hurt my perception of the expansion, I shrugged and moved on to one of the other Jobs I play and enjoy.  Bahamut seems cool and all, but the changes to Aetherflow seem to be intended to make it simpler to play but actually wound up making it trickier and more complex. They really shouldn't have rolled Aetherflow and Aethertrail Attunement into the same gauge, since while it used to be painful to fat-finger a Bane or Fester (and be honest, you have at least once) it's absolutely crippling now, since not only do you miss out on a dreadwyrm trance you wind up not only having to wait but wasting most of the next aetherflow too, and both of it winds up pushing your bahamut summon even father back. And even when you're playing fine it just feels... plodding. I don't mind simple classes, I'm old and incompetent and actually prefer them given the option, but you still lack easy burst and the AOE is weaker and you spend a lot of time spamming Ruin and... eeh. I guess the numbers and sustained damage are alright? But it just isn't fun.I mean I don't really mind that much, RDM seems to be way more interesting and I really need to level it more, but I can't help but feel the SMN changes just didn't get thorough playtesting.
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Jun 27, 2017 11:45
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Thumbtacks posted:I mean if it's fun, that's what matters. More or less yeah, with a Hypercharge in if you can afford it since it actually boosts your own damage now. You can use Flamethrower, but it's pretty janky especially if you or the tank needs to move.
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Jun 27, 2017 11:51
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For those talking about the giant tower in Ruby Sea, if you pay attention you get to see the top of it when you ride to the upper platform.
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Jun 27, 2017 12:21
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ApplesandOranges posted:The 60 MCH experience going forward has been pretty good if only because every couple levels you get something that makes your rotation even better. Whoa, the flamethrower is far from useless. It's pretty much your only efficient means of forcing an overheat. Even doing it for a single tick is worthwhile since you won't clip the GCD. Give this a shot: First, this assumes that barrel stabilizer is available. You want to be at 70 heat for this (so you can't do it at the start of a primal fight, it wouldn't be until your third wildfire if you're lining everything up right). oGCDs in parenthesis with one obvious exception. Hot Shot (Reload) > Split Shot (Hypercharge) > Slug Shot (potion if you have them/want to, I haven't bothered at this point) > Split Shot > Flamethrower until overheated > Wildfire > Cooldown (Ricochet/Rapid Fire) > Clean Shot (Quick Reload) > Slug Shot (Reassemble) > Clean Shot (Gauss Round) > Cooldown On a training dummy my wildfire can hit for 10k. In a full party, I've broken 13k with it. Once the ten seconds of lockout have passed, reapply gauss barrel and use barrel stabilizer immediately. If stabilizer isn't up, do more or less the same thing but stop the flamethrower at 90 heat. If it's the start of the fight, add Gauss Barrel > Barrel Stabilizer to the start of that rotation. It's really good. If you want to talk mostly useless skills, there's turret overload... edit: Wow, you are all reaaaaaally underestimating flamethrower's importance. Those 230 potency cooldowns do a whole lot for your wildfire.
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Jun 27, 2017 12:53
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Last night I gained a level for collecting poop. Which unlocked triple cast. That's my stormblood highlight. Speaking of which, what's the best way to use triple cast? It seems to me that, unless you're triple flaring, it's just a mobility tool hidden behind a badass concept. If you use it during a single target rotation you save a second and a half in cast times on fire 4s. Big whoop.
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Jun 27, 2017 12:56
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Alakaiser posted:Whoa, the flamethrower is far from useless. It's pretty much your only efficient means of forcing an overheat. Even doing it for a single tick is worthwhile since you won't clip the GCD. Give this a shot: That's really more pointing out how good Barrel Stabilizer is than anything. Flamethrower has its uses, but its limitations really hold it back from making it a great tool like most of the 52-66 kit. Considering that it's not actually hard to generate heat once you're over 50, too. But it's better than Planetary Confession as far as level 70 skills go.
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Jun 27, 2017 13:04
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Maybe if flamethrower either gained heat significantly faster or didn't stop autoattacks.
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Jun 27, 2017 13:10
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My point is, flamethrower is a button you should be using on cooldown, every boss fight. If you're lining up your oGCDs properly (which is a lot easier than it used to be), you're going to get a huge DPS boost from the fact that flamethrower enables two additional cooldowns during your wildfire rotation. That is a huge spike of damage that is impossible (or extremely janky) otherwise. You should always flamethrower up to 90 heat, regardless of stabilizer. If stabilizer didn't exist, flamethrower would still be important to your overall DPS. I mean, disagree if you like, but if you haven't tried it you really should. It has made a massive difference in my DPS, and I'm back to seeing partially exciting wildfire numbers. Even if 13k is what I could do with no buffs in 3.5... ApplesandOranges posted:Considering that it's not actually hard to generate heat once you're over 50, too. Sorry, one more point. Even at 70, the best heat you can gain is still 10 per GCD, which you can do the moment you have gauss barrel if you really want to (and will frequently do with Spread Shot). Once you hit 64, the real value (other than the obviously big spike in potency) is that you can do it while being efficient with your TP. At the barest minimum, you can tap Flamethrower and gain 10 heat without even risking clipping your GCD. 20 is doable, but I suppose that might be latency dependent. 30 can be worth the minor clip to your GCD. That is the exact opposite of slow. Alakaiser fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 13:11
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Asimo posted:This is the biggest thing, it's basically tailor made for me. There's really not a whole lot of buttons to hit... you're using all of like five or six in a single-target situation outside of wildfire. But this is made up for by having to watch your heat and this gets you into a nice rhythm of building and dumping and chaining ammo, and it's so satisfying to do the flashy heated combo. And of course it's all instant attacks so you're free to maneuver at will during it. I think it's the most fun I've been having with a DPS class, though SAM and RDM come close. I'm playing BRD right now at 60 and having a great time, but reading this I suspect I'll enjoy MCH even more. I'll have to level it once I get BRD to 70 (and thankfully they can share all that nice gear along the way  ).BRD is a really new experience for me, though. I'm not used to having this many oGCDs to hit. It's so frantic compared to RDM or the casters I generally play in other MMOs and I like it a lot. I think what makes me shy away from MCH right now is how unforgiving the heat mechanic is. If Barrel Stabilizer had a shorter cooldown and/or overheating was more beneficial, I think I'd be all over it. Definitely going to level it once I'm done with BRD, though. They did a really good job making all three of BRD's songs feel satisfying, too. I expected Army's Paean to be boring compared to the other two, but the stacking speed buff is really noticeable, like a temporary Greased Lightning. Mage's Ballad is great because I get to slam Bloodletter after nearly every GCD, and Wanderer's Minuet naturally has that build-up to Pitch Perfect and who doesn't love a big-rear end blue laser oGCD? Oh, and Iron Jaws is amazing. Not needing to individually reapply my DoTs is a lot kinder than I expected. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 13:57
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I'd forgotten just how willfully bad some (a lot of) people can be at this game. Thanks for reminding me, DRG and SAM who refused to figure out boss mechanics that caused them to eat a knockback almost every single time instead of just shifting 5' to the right and continuing to dps with no issues.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:05
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Josuke Higashikata posted:This final trial queue is the longest queue for content I've had by far. That's because people queueing trial roulette are actively under hearing so they don't get dumped in that. It's not that it's super hard but it relies on somewhat competent and sustained healing and or people not standing in poo poo and or people being patient enough for newbies to learn, all of which can be hit or miss SettingSun posted:Yeah I agree. Giving the things that used to give stacks (vengeance, berserk, etc.) give gauge again would be a good start. I can't tell whether SE wants WAR to stance dance or not. The level 70 skill strongly points to yes. I hate stance dancing, though, personally. I mean f you were in defiance and wanted to blow your stack you could switch, release, and get 4x cleaves out. It's not as good as building the full gauge in deliverance but it means you get lots of DPS out while still being relatively tough ImpAtom posted:Even the classes thing doesn't make any sense to me. It's a 'patch' on a problem but we already have skill-altering traits. Just have Bane Mastery or something. I know they don't really want to go this way but I'd love if they added another job to all the classes as an expansion. MRD gets Berserker in addition to WAR, GLD gets Knight, THM gets Time Mage or something, and so on Ferrinus posted:You're not wrong, since a full-length T4 is a total of 230 potency per target compared to F2's 144. T4 is good tho and I like that it adds a bit of a dynamic "should I refresh this" to the aoe rotation which otherwise is pretty static Fister Roboto posted:Presumably from converting spiritbonded gear as well. Protip: dungeon gear can be converted now. Old dungeon gear or just the new stuff? Fridurmus posted:What in the world is all this I'm hearing about people using old i270 slaying accessories while tanking current content? Did SE gently caress something up and I didn't notice, or is this an overreaction to the change that reverted tank damage stats? The bosses don't hit hard enough to require a vit right side so using old strength accessories with vit melded gives you more DPS and thus quicker clears, also makes it easier to hold threat Kalenn Istarion fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 14:09
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I know they don't really want to go this way but I'd love if they added another job to all the classes as an expansion. MRD gets Berserker in addition to WAR, GLD gets Knight, THM gets Time Mage or something, and so on I think they've locked themselves out from this by adding five jobs that don't have an associated class. If they were to go back and start adding a second job to every class that doesn't already have one, I think people who main DRK, MCH, AST, RDM, or SAM might feel cheated because they don't get to level two jobs at a time. It's probably more likely that they'll ditch classes whenever they do the inevitable Cataclysm-style (but hopefully better) rework of core Eorzea, though I hope they don't kill off some of the great 1-30 class quest lines in the process. If Pugilist's quest line went away I'd be really sad, for example, and the Thaumaturge one has some great moments, too.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:14
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MCH was my main dps in HW and i'm terrified to look at it since SB launched in case I hate it. I'm one of those weird people who loved 3.55 MCH and thought it was perfect. However I am glad to hear people think its fun at 70 since that was the main reason I played MCH so much in HW. 
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Jun 27, 2017 14:17
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Harrow posted:I think they've locked themselves out from this by adding five jobs that don't have an associated class. If they were to go back and start adding a second job to every class that doesn't already have one, I think people who main DRK, MCH, AST, RDM, or SAM might feel cheated because they don't get to level two jobs at a time. Well for the ones where the class is essentially the job you'd just roll it in together Or do you mean lose them if they blew up the world
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Jun 27, 2017 14:17
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Mystic Cave zOWNd posted:I'm a Warrior. I gave myself a 3 minute parse with new fending accessories and hit just above 2400 then switched to i270 slaying and was pushing 3000. I've got the Susano axe since then but that's a pretty big difference! The best argument I've seen for changing things is that over the course of the expansion, DPS classes get stronger from both left and right side items while tanks only get stronger from left side, so holding hate is only going to get more difficult as time goes on. I hope they do something because I can already feel a difference in the level 69 dungeon and I can only imagine how it'll feel in 2-3 patches. Not that I'm going to run around in i270 accessories because I play a lot with pubbies and I don't trust pubbie healers at all.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:19
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Cat Army
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The meta of DPS right-sides for tanks sprang out entirely from the weakness change. I miss VIT giving attack power.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:23
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xeria posted:I'd forgotten just how willfully bad some (a lot of) people can be at this game. Thanks for reminding me, DRG and SAM who refused to figure out boss mechanics that caused them to eat a knockback almost every single time instead of just shifting 5' to the right and continuing to dps with no issues. And then get offended when you try and suggest they do otherwise.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:26
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