|
What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Labour |
|
907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
|
48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
|
31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
|
13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
|
25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
|
22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
|
12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
|
1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
|
59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
|
4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
|
3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
|
36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
|
35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
|
8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
|
49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
|
39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
|
2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
|
188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
|
8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
|
15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
|
312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
|
ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Even though the NHS is being defunded by right wing politicians and the exact same thing could happen in the us on a even more extreme level? In case you've not noticed, the NHS is so untouchable that the Tories are forced to try to dismantle it on the sly whereas the Republicans are about to repeal Obamacare.
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:12 |
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Medicare for everyone. Everyone pays taxes, the government entitles everyone to healthcare, but you still have profit-making entities doing the actual provision of services. Ah right I see. Then yes the NHS model is better but either would be better, even defunded, than the current US approach with involves not funding it at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Guys do you think the US would be better off it had single payer or a NHS like health care system? I responded to your stupid poo poo in the other thread already, but yes, of loving course America would be better off. There would be be far more people getting help and fewer people in untold amounts of medical debt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Ah right I see. Actually... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
The isolation seems to be doing a number on Assange's mental health. I wonder how many pissjugs he's storing under his bed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:Actually... Excluding poor people from healthcare turns out to be ludicrously expensive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Complete aside but the Americans almost built something this loving stupid in the 50's. Looked it up and its this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_NB-36H They never got as far as hooking up the reactor to nuclear propulsion though, as thankfully they realized that it was a colossally stupid idea.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:Actually... Sorry I mean not funding healthcare provision to people, not not funding healthcare companies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
ukle posted:Complete aside but the Americans almost built something this loving stupid in the 50's. Looked it up and its this You should probably read that article! Also that blueprint is something someone made for the website right? It looks too stylised and Indiana Jones to be a real one
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Sorry I mean not funding healthcare provision to people, not not funding healthcare companies. Oh yeah I know, I just like pointing out that the US spends way more public money than pretty much everyone else on not having a universal public healthcare system
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
I found this recent Patrick Cockburn article interesting: My mother, Patricia Cockburn, joined the Air-Raid Precautions (ARP) in 1939 and worked at the “Northern Control Centre” in a large cellar deep under Praed Street in Paddington through the early months of the Blitz. This is about two and a half miles from where Grenfell Tower was to be built 35 years later. She recalled later in a memoir that “60 of us sat in a large underground room, each at a narrow desk on which were four telephones coloured white, red, green and black”. The black phone was for the Chief Warden of a district to call in to say where bombs had fallen and ask for assistance proportionate to the level of destruction and the number of casualties. Patricia would immediately pick up her white phone to send ambulances, the red one for fire engines and the green for heavy rescue vehicles. The skill of the controllers lay in matching the rescue effort to the needs of the victims of the bombing. “You never gave the warden all the machines he asked for,” wrote Patricia. “If you did, you would run out of ambulances and fire engines, long before the raid was over.” Overall, she found the system well organised and effective. There were glitches, such as an instruction to wear gas masks at all times which briefly made it impossible for the controllers to hear what the wardens were telling them. She was overawed by the dedication of the rescue crews. One night during a heavy raid she got a call on her white phone and heard a girl’s voice calmly asking: “My ambulance is on fire, do I have permission to abandon it?” Patricia asked if she had any patients in the ambulance. The girl said she did not because the crew had been on the way to a bombing. Patricia asked if this meant they had a full tank of petrol and, when told that it did, replied: “Don’t ask any more questions, get out and run like blazes.” ... Sneers directed over the decades by governments and media against “Health and Safety” as the apogee of unnecessary and intrusive bureaucratic meddling, set the stage for the Grenfell Tower tragedy. One does not have to be particularly cynical about human nature to realise that some businesses, noting the dismissive attitude of the state to its own regulations, will conclude that nobody who matters will mind if it breaks a few of them. But there is an even more destructive aspect to this contempt for state supervision that marks a big difference between government attitudes today and in 1940. For centuries after the end of the 17th century, Britain had a more efficient and better organised state than its rivals in the rest of Europe. This was the outcome of decades of civil conflict in Britain and Ireland, though not all parts of the state apparatus were equally effective, the navy being much better run than the army. It was state power as much as free trade and the industrial revolution sustained the British role in the world. It is a tradition that has taken a long time to die. Britain was never going to retain its imperial status after 1945, but neoliberal rhetoric about shrinking the state has been deeply damaging in a country that was never big or strong enough to afford too many mistakes. I was periodically stationed in the Middle East, Russia and the US in the years after 1980 and in all these places one could sense the decay of British state institutions. Visiting British politicians were astonishingly ignorant of the local political landscape. British embassies abandoned diplomacy and turned into trading posts. Britain’s reliance on its relationships with the US and the EU became ever more pronounced. This may not have mattered too much until British voters decided to discard the European crutch and President Trump devalued the US crutch by retracting the US role in the world. Some of this decline was inevitable and some was self-inflicted. The political and media elite often compensated for these failings by disappearing into a world of comforting fantasies, as in the failed British military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. It became the norm to blame all the disasters on Tony Blair, but in both these wars, and later in Libya and Syria, there was a pervasive lack of interest in what was going wrong and how it might be put right. For a nation that so often is mocked and mocks itself for being too absorbed in its triumphs in the First and Second World Wars, the British are surprisingly ignorant of the causes of their past success. Whatever its military fortunes, the British state machine used to be better organised and more effective than its allies and opponents and its ability to create powerful alliances useful to itself was unmatched. Self-interested denigration of the state as a sort of super-parasite over the past 30 years has helped dissipate these strengths. The well-organised calm of my mother’s ARP control room under Paddington in 1940 was incomparably better than the chaotic state response to Grenfell Tower. https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/26/grenfell-tower-the-tragic-price-of-the-rolled-back-stat/
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
ukle posted:Complete aside but the Americans almost built something this loving stupid in the 50's. Looked it up and its this Don't worry Russia got you fam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-95LAL
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 16:58
|
|
|
This cannot be stressed enough for Americans visiting the thread: the US healthcare system is uniquely bad. It delivers mediocre outcomes at extremely high prices, well outside the range of costs of other developed world systems. You can debate which system would be best to switch to, but the answer to 'would we be be better off with [other first-world country system]?' is always 'yes.'
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
ukle posted:Complete aside but the Americans almost built something this loving stupid in the 50's. Looked it up and its this Imagine the wild world we could be in right now if Lockheed was allowed to build a nuclear F-35, though
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
ukle posted:Complete aside but the Americans almost built something this loving stupid in the 50's. Looked it up and its this You have to remember that for the first few decades, nuclear technology was seen as the future. It was going to be everywhere. Off the top of my head:
coffeetable fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jun 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:I agree with Corbyn's position of multi-lateral efforts to get rid of nukes. We have come very close to nuclear holocaust in the past and our luck will not hold forever. Particularly if the US keeps giving maniacs the chance to kill everyone. Good thing Clinton wasnt elected then wew
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/879732684511162370 Although I think I remember her publicly criticising Tory policy before but still voting for it, so it probably doesn't mean much.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:06
|
|
|
Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Good thing Clinton wasnt elected then wew Oh gently caress off with this shite. Clinton was a mediocre candidate standing on a really lovely platform, and yet was still not as unhinged & poorly advised & generally stupid as the guy she lost to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:25
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Oh gently caress off with this shite. Clinton was a mediocre candidate standing on a really lovely platform, and yet was still not as unhinged & poorly advised & generally stupid as the guy she lost to. Or as openly, spectacularly criminal. Don't forget that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
Entropy238 posted:I feel loving sick after watching this. The worst thing is it is all too plausible (apart from us having a navy, as apposed to two lads in a peddelo)
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Oh gently caress off with this shite. Clinton was a mediocre candidate standing on a really lovely platform, and yet was still not as unhinged & poorly advised & generally stupid as the guy she lost to. Dunno about the bolded part, she did employ the people who managed to run a worse campaign than Donald loving Trump, after all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Dunno about the bolded part, she did employ the people who managed to run a worse campaign than Donald loving Trump, after all. I mean yeah, people like Neera Tanden are disasters, but compared to Kushner & Bannon & loving Sebastian Gorka? I'd take useless over loving dangerously unhinged.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:35
|
|
|
UK defence secretary threatens military strikes against hackersquote:The UK could carry out military strikes in response to cyber attacks, the UK defence secretary has said. uhhh…
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:35
|
|
|
WTF. I hope he realises that by the nature of things hackers conceal where they physically are. Is he going to send a subpoena to a Chinese ISP to find the home addresses of hackers, or just bomb the poo poo out of the random Midwest furniture store whose got a virus and been hooked into a botnet? Politicians are just the loving worst at tech.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
2017 - Began the first war initiated over hacked dick pics
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
We're gonna be the next North Korea
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
This is absolutely inevitable though; cyber attacks against critical infrastructure can nearly be as devastating as an terrorist attack/artillery strike so why wouldn't it be met with a similar response?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:WTF. He calls it Cyber so I'd be amazed if he knows what hacking even is
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:42
|
|
|
Peel posted:This cannot be stressed enough for Americans visiting the thread: the US healthcare system is uniquely bad. It delivers mediocre outcomes at extremely high prices, well outside the range of costs of other developed world systems. You can debate which system would be best to switch to, but the answer to 'would we be be better off with [other first-world country system]?' is always 'yes.' Never mind first world, you'd probably be better off with Cuba's 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:42
|
|
|
namesake posted:This is absolutely inevitable though; cyber attacks against critical infrastructure can nearly be as devastating as an terrorist attack/artillery strike so why wouldn't it be met with a similar response? Because it's only going to lead to blowing up some VPN server farm?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
namesake posted:This is absolutely inevitable though; cyber attacks against critical infrastructure can nearly be as devastating as an terrorist attack/artillery strike so why wouldn't it be met with a similar response? And bombing some Chinese/Russian teenager's bedroom is going to help deal with it how?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
The ultimate Tory party goal is to cut costs, so if everything is a wasteland costs are 0. Smart move.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:45
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Dunno about the bolded part, she did employ the people who managed to run a worse campaign than Donald loving Trump, after all. She won more votes. Her campaign was generally competent. The campaign that beat them had the advantages of Republican state governments suppressing the vote, the Russian hacking and propaganda operations, and the FBI director allowing himself to be used in an ultimately baseless smear against her at the 11th hour, and they still came up shy in the final tally. Too bad the need to compromise with slave state delegates at the constitutional convention has saddled us with the Electoral College system. Basically, our system is loving awful. It's awful to the benefit of the Republicans though, and changing it is nigh impossible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Because it's only going to lead to blowing up some VPN server farm? Because states have to protect their monopoly of force, they categorically have to respond to a manmade threat like this or risk losing control over it and the response will be either to threaten to attack whoever commits cyber attacks against them or locking down the internet to make attacks of this type impossible or very easy to trace. feedmegin posted:And bombing some Chinese/Russian teenager's bedroom is going to help deal with it how? It'll make them look better, much like BRIMSTONE against ISIS.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
namesake posted:This is absolutely inevitable though; cyber attacks against critical infrastructure can nearly be as devastating as an terrorist attack/artillery strike so why wouldn't it be met with a similar response? nobody's saying that someone attacking the NHS shouldn't go to prison or, if attempting to commit acts of aggression, gulag. But Fallon doesn't have a loving clue who, or where, he would be attacking, and he will never have a clue, and he will never understand why he'll never know. A couple of police forces made similar noises about online drug dealers when the CIA dropped on Silk Road. The idea that the British police, or services, could break even something as widespread as TOR is laughable. If we reach a stage where other nation states are throwing high level IT disruption at the UK, the UK is totally hosed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
We have our own bad politics to discuss, please don't bring yet another rehash of the last American presidential election to this thread, the one place on the Internet where I don't need to read about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:nobody's saying that someone attacking the NHS shouldn't go to prison or, if attempting to commit acts of aggression, gulag. Sure but their ignorance of the particulars and difficulties of finding the real culprits doesn't change the logic that a state follows regarding self-defense. Honestly the situation is somewhat comparable to nukechat in that a state feeling threatened will take extreme, highly dangerous and potentially even self-defeating positions in an effort to feel that it has a defense against something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:55
|
|
|
He is an idiot, but he is right. Unfortunately in the case of the current attack that wouldn't be an option. If you aren't aware the not 'Petya' attack that is going on right now is basically disguising itself as a variant of Petya malware, but its impossible for them to get any money from it. Combine that with it seems to be using a new exploit against SMBv1 allowing it to attack patched machines (all be it in a limited fashion) as well as the one in Eternal Blue ala Wannacry to allow itself to spread once in a network and its also using multiple possible ways to get the initial payload inside of networks. All signs point to that this is an actual warfare attack. Its the most sophisticated malware yet, but its not financial gain and given the main country hit seems to be the Ukraine then it leads to an obvious culprit for where this has come from. Note Microsoft said last week they were going to remove SMBv1 from all windows machines in a few months, so the culprit knew if they were going to use this they had to now. In most cases ala Wannacry he would be completely wrong as its normal at most organised criminal gangs doing it via extortion, but in cases as blatant as the one ongoing its fairly obvious who is behind it, just we aren't its main targets. ukle fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Rygar201 posted:She won more votes. Her campaign was generally competent. The campaign that beat them had the advantages of Republican state governments suppressing the vote, the Russian hacking and propaganda operations, and the FBI director allowing himself to be used in an ultimately baseless smear against her at the 11th hour, and they still came up shy in the final tally. Too bad the need to compromise with slave state delegates at the constitutional convention has saddled us with the Electoral College system. lol jesus gently caress no, Hillary's campaign was not competent. If you want to see what a competent campaign looks like, you might want to look up a certain Absolute Boy. namesake posted:Because states have to protect their monopoly of force, they categorically have to respond to a manmade threat like this or risk losing control over it and the response will be either to threaten to attack whoever commits cyber attacks against them or locking down the internet to make attacks of this type impossible or very easy to trace. Or you could invest in actual IT security instead of rushing into another war against an ephemereal foe?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:12 |
|
|
Peel posted:This cannot be stressed enough for Americans visiting the thread: the US healthcare system is uniquely bad. It delivers mediocre outcomes at extremely high prices, well outside the range of costs of other developed world systems. You can debate which system would be best to switch to, but the answer to 'would we be be better off with [other first-world country system]?' is always 'yes.' From my vast experience of healthcare systems around the world (two), I think the US would do well with a Dutch-style system. - Everyone has to buy insurance from one of several private insurance companies (Choice! Freedom!) - It costs about €100 a month (No freeloaders!*) - The government mandates that all insurance must cover the basic not-dying stuff (Boooo!) - But you can pick and choose the extras you think you might need in the coming year (Free market wooo! Now do I think I'll need 9 or 15 physio visits in 2018...) - Plus there's a compulsory excess of at least €385 a year, so you still get surprise bills in the post every now and then (A lovely nostalgia trip!) - And don't worry, dental is still stupidly expensive  Having used the system more than I'd like in the 9 months I've been here, it seems to work very well (probably because it's better funded than the NHS overall), but it's telling that the Dutch people I've talked to all mutter about how pointlessly complicated it is compared to the old, less private insurance-y, system. *I assume there are rebates for poors but shhh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2017 19:04
|
|
