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I get the feeling they also made the VIT change because of Tenacity becoming a thing but really undertuned Tenacity to where the tradeoff isn't actually balanced. Mayhaps if they buffed the numbers on the stat things would equalize back out a bit.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:14
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The Provoke-Shirk Shuffle is so weird and feels like it goes against other design philosophies and changes... but at the same time it's so incredibly, incredibly obvious to anyone who even so much as reads the tooltips that I have to assume it's entirely intentional and the desired play pattern.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:15
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Fister Roboto posted:As far as I'm aware you can't. What you can do is set up an identical hotbar on another class and then use a command to swap it to the one you want. /hotbar swap LNC 9 PLD 2 would take whatever's on your 9th lancer hotbar and put it on your 2nd paladin hotbar. So I'd have to macro all my abilities for my pld on that bar and place the macros on the dragoons bar even though they wouldn't work in drg form? And then just run that swap? If that's the case I'll just manually move that one back and forth. It's my shirk macro replacing awareness action.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:15
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Is the tank damage issue so major because it prevents groups from effectively doing content or does it just make dungeons go that much slower?
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Jun 27, 2017 18:18
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Countblanc posted:The Provoke-Shirk Shuffle is so weird and feels like it goes against other design philosophies and changes... but at the same time it's so incredibly, incredibly obvious to anyone who even so much as reads the tooltips that I have to assume it's entirely intentional and the desired play pattern. They wanted tanks to not be 100% focused on damage, and this is a thing to give OTs a reason to build threat instead of all damage all the time. It seems pretty obvious why they're doing this?
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Jun 27, 2017 18:18
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Vargatron posted:Is the tank damage issue so major because it prevents groups from effectively doing content or does it just make dungeons go that much slower? The latter.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:22
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SettingSun posted:I'm in this boat too as a WAR and it is goddamn annoying. Unless it actively and obviously inhibits my tanking (and it hasn't yet) I'm not wearing the old slaying accessories. I mean, it makes sense for tanks to wear the gear since the gains are material. But the way it's gone about feels almost like an exploit and I just don't like it. I mean, you could be doing 1/4 more DPS. That's significant enough in and of itself that yes, your tanking is currently inhibited. Also this isn't an exploit or something bugged ala direct hit right now on faeries. This is just proper gearing for maximum dps. Completely unchanged, this problem will eventually rectify itself. Substats will eventually outweigh the strength from the slaying gear, but that definitely isn't the case at i310.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:22
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Holyshoot posted:So I'd have to macro all my abilities for my pld on that bar and place the macros on the dragoons bar even though they wouldn't work in drg form? And then just run that swap? If that's the case I'll just manually move that one back and forth. It's my shirk macro replacing awareness action. You can only swap the whole bar at once. Here's what you do: 1. Set up your PLD 2 hotbar the way you want it, with the macro included. 2. in chat type /hotbar swap PLD 2 GLA 9. This will put everything on your PLD 2 bar onto your GLA 9 bar (which is presumably unused for anything else, because why would you ever be a gladiator?) 3. In your macro add the line /hotbar swap GLA 9 PLD 2. Whenever your run the macro, this will put whatever is on your GLA 9 bar onto your PLD 2 bar.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:23
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:They wanted tanks to not be 100% focused on damage, and this is a thing to give OTs a reason to build threat instead of all damage all the time. It seems pretty obvious why they're doing this? Except they aren't building threat. They are provoking and being put at the same threat level as the Mt and then the Mt shirks his threat to the ot then the Mt provokes and the ot shirks 25% of his current threat to the Mt. Wait 2 mins repeat. Never leave dps stance.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:24
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:They wanted tanks to not be 100% focused on damage, and this is a thing to give OTs a reason to build threat instead of all damage all the time. It seems pretty obvious why they're doing this? Isn't the entire point that you build an immense threat lead immediately using those tools and then never have to care about threat again? It seems like it frees you up to exclusively do damage.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:25
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Mr. Nice! posted:Also this isn't an exploit or something bugged ala direct hit right now on faeries. This is just proper gearing for maximum dps. Completely unchanged, this problem will eventually rectify itself. Substats will eventually outweigh the strength from the slaying gear, but that definitely isn't the case at i310. The bad thing about this is that even once the substats on fending accs outweigh 270 slaying accs, you'll still run into the problem of lower level fending accs potentially being better for dps than higher level ones due to substat distribution. We could very well be going back to the days of tanks having to pentameld crafted accs.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:26
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Mr. Nice! posted:I mean, you could be doing 1/4 more DPS. That's significant enough in and of itself that yes, your tanking is currently inhibited. I agree that you're right, I'm just upset that is the case. The core of my argument is that I don't like wearing the inferior ilvl gear. If PF parties start becoming "LF pld str acc only" I'll just have to go with that flow.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:28
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Fister Roboto posted:You can only swap the whole bar at once. Here's what you do: But you posted this a while back. quote:/aaction clear - removes all your role actions Implying I can do individual role actions? So ignoring the macro I want to move I can still do that correct?
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Jun 27, 2017 18:29
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You can add actions to a bar individually, but you can't do the same for macros (at least not as far as I'm aware). The swap macro is a workaround that works just as effectively. This is my macro for the exact same thing you're trying to do: /aaction clear /aaction "Provoke" on /aaction "Shirk" on /aaction "Rampart" on /aaction "Convalescence" on /aaction "Reprisal" on /hotbar copy pld 8 pld 2 It turns on all the role actions I want and sets up my hotbar the way I want it with a single click. (also I was wrong the command is copy not swap) Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 18:33
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Holyshoot posted:Except they aren't building threat. They are provoking and being put at the same threat level as the Mt and then the Mt shirks his threat to the ot then the Mt provokes and the ot shirks 25% of his current threat to the Mt. Wait 2 mins repeat. Never leave dps stance. You'll build more threat with your threat tools than with your damage tools. I'm not sure why I have to point this out. Countblanc posted:Isn't the entire point that you build an immense threat lead immediately using those tools and then never have to care about threat again? It seems like it frees you up to exclusively do damage. If tank damage is low enough you might have to keep doing it to stay ahead. I'm not going to say it's actually a good idea for them to do this, I'm just saying it's easy to see why they're doing it.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:33
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Fister Roboto posted:You can add actions to a bar individually, but you can't do the same for macros (at least not as far as I'm aware). The swap macro circumvents that. This is my macro for the exact same thing you're trying to do: Okay perfect. I can just manually move the macro back and forth. Here will be mine. You also don't have to clear all. You can turn them off individually. Raids /aaction "Awareness" off /aaction "Anticipation" off /aaction "Reprisal" on /aaction "Shirk" on /hotbar action "Reprisal" Y Z /hotbar action "Reprisal" Y Z /hotbar action "Shirk" YZ Dungeons /aaction "Reprisal" off /aaction "Shirk" off /aaction "Awareness" on /aaction "Anticipation" on /hotbar action "Awareness" Y Z /hotbar action "Anticipation" Y Z /hotbar action "Anticipation" Y Z My keybind for shirk macro and awareness share the same spot. So I can just manually move that instead of setting up a whole hot bar. I also use two hot bars for cd's. One for the keybinds and another for easier viewing of my cool downs.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:36
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I feel like we're talking about tanking circa WoW TBC in regards to damage and threat.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:36
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:If tank damage is low enough you might have to keep doing it to stay ahead. I'm not going to say it's actually a good idea for them to do this, I'm just saying it's easy to see why they're doing it. In any content with a tank swap and tanks that are shirking in the process, no one will be able to get anywhere close to a threat lead. You can have both tanks die and one shirked tank swap later everyone besides the two tank's enmity bars are near zero. Susano Ex is a great example. Ideally you want to provoke during the cast for stormsplitter. OT provokes and MT shirks both before the cast is done and everyone else is so far down the list it doesn't matter anymore.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:38
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Holyshoot posted:My keybind for shirk macro and awareness share the same spot. So I can just manually move that instead of setting up a whole hot bar. I also use two hot bars for cd's. One for the keybinds and another for easier viewing of my cool downs. I mean, setting up an invisible hotbar on a completely unused class isn't that hard. But you do you I guess.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:38
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SettingSun posted:I agree that you're right, I'm just upset that is the case. The core of my argument is that I don't like wearing the inferior ilvl gear. If PF parties start becoming "LF pld str acc only" I'll just have to go with that flow. No right now it's learning parties asking for full 310 that's the problem. I cannot join most PF groups for susano or lakshmi because even with 310 leftside and a 320 weapon I only have a mixmash of 280-300 jewelry I picked up in dungeons to bump my ilevel so I'm sub i300.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:40
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:You'll build more threat with your threat tools than with your damage tools. I'm not sure why I have to point this out. Are you trolling? I only need to do my threat move once at the start and after I launch it off the OT provokes I shirk, I then provoke he shirks and I now have a huge threat lead while maintaining my dps stance and combo. After 2 mins is up we do it again and the threat lead is even larger. It's even better for tank swaps as well like Susano. Makes tank swaps super easy. Not sure why you think a OT needs to build threat with dps loss threat moves when the provoke gives them the MT's threat to shirk off.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:41
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Yeah threat generation is not at all a problem in any 8 man content. In fact the new role abilities have made that area significantly better. It doesn't matter if I'm running an enmity combo as an OT or if my opener only has me at 5th on the aggro list. I don't even have to provoke for shirk to be effective because unless I'm dead its a massive free chunk of enmity for the MT.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:44
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah threat generation is not at all a problem in any 8 man content. In fact the new role abilities have made that area significantly better. The only issue is if you have to stay second on aggro as shirk can sometimes throw you below the 3rd place dps. Happened a few times when we were clearing lamishi. In that case your OT does want to build some threat and not use a shirk.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:45
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 gently caress
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Jun 27, 2017 18:46
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Holyshoot posted:The only issue is if you have to stay second on aggro as shirk can sometimes throw you below the 3rd place dps. Happened a few times when we were clearing lamishi. In that case your OT does want to build some threat and not use a shirk. If you need to be second on aggro, you shirk then provoke so you that you give the MT some enmity and then jump up. Getting second on aggro is easy as can be anytime. Just provoke but don't run any enmity generation after. The only fight where being second on enmity matters right now is the final trial, and it doesn't matter who is on first as the tanks will get auto attacked regardless (as long as two tanks are alive).
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Jun 27, 2017 18:46
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Minrad posted:
Materia is thrown at you like candy in the new expansion (V materia at least) and money can be gotten anywhere. You only have one choice.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:48
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ImpAtom posted:Materia is thrown at you like candy in the new expansion (V materia at least) and money can be gotten anywhere. You only have one choice. oh it's not the choice that's the problem, it's rerolling 7 stickers until they line up that is  and it's excalibur, you just KNOW she's gonna be like 20million gil on the marketboard here
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Jun 27, 2017 18:49
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Minrad posted:oh it's not the choice that's the problem, it's rerolling 7 stickers until they line up that is Ooh, I thought you had already finished and were just deciding between the three. Good luck!!
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Jun 27, 2017 18:49
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Minrad posted:
Please don't. 
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Jun 27, 2017 18:53
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Weakness is the price you pay for a game giving you a job that can dump out a battle rez literally every other GCD. The only other option is to have a boss gain stacks of death every time it murders someone, ala Quickthinx. Ask Velthice what he thinks of that mechanic.Fister Roboto posted:Please don't. Koji Foxed again.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:54
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Fister Roboto posted:Please don't. That's a remarkably unnerving description.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:55
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So I'm getting through SB crafting (god the 60 to 61 slump loving suuucks) and was thinking wow, I got to 70 weaver in one day and got carpenter up to 63. Why does it feel so much easier? Then it hit me: So far none of the basic components (cloths, leathers, nuggets, etc.) are not locked behind unspoiled nodes. Go to hell hallowed water and coerthan tea leaves! And even better, when it comes to your job classes they just give you the materials for the item with infinite chances to retry. Its nice, I was actually feeling apprehension doing my 63 job quest cause I was getting ready to either get robbed on the marketboard buying materials or having to level other crafting classes to craft my own materials but nope, just "here ya go, good luck!" Making crafting less of a complete chore, 10/10 expansion. Now if they can retroactively do that for ARR and HW crafting.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:55
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Holyshoot posted:Are you trolling? I only need to do my threat move once at the start and after I launch it off the OT provokes I shirk, I then provoke he shirks and I now have a huge threat lead while maintaining my dps stance and combo. After 2 mins is up we do it again and the threat lead is even larger. It's even better for tank swaps as well like Susano. Makes tank swaps super easy. Possibly. My main point is just because they're wrong doesn't mean there isn't a sort of logic behind it all, and it's pretty clear they didn't think all of it through.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:56
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Fister Roboto posted:Please don't.  Okay Koji, I think you need a time-out.
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Jun 27, 2017 19:03
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ImpAtom posted:Materia is thrown at you like candy in the new expansion (V materia at least) and money can be gotten anywhere. You only have one choice. I have to say, of all my favorite ways they made materia super accessible, it's making materia just being random enemy drops from dungeon trash in the 70 dungeons.
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Jun 27, 2017 19:19
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jeez, 1301 in queue for omega but only like 9 for excal. wow.
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Jun 27, 2017 19:51
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Can we change the thread title to "FINAL FANTASY XIV: Circle Shirk"
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Jun 27, 2017 19:53
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:jeez, 1301 in queue for omega but only like 9 for excal. wow. Excalibur, surprisingly, is not on the list of congested worlds. Out of our datacenter it's Balmung and Gilgamesh.
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Jun 27, 2017 19:54
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Leal posted:So I'm getting through SB crafting (god the 60 to 61 slump loving suuucks) and was thinking wow, I got to 70 weaver in one day and got carpenter up to 63. Why does it feel so much easier? Then it hit me: So far none of the basic components (cloths, leathers, nuggets, etc.) are not locked behind unspoiled nodes. Go to hell hallowed water and coerthan tea leaves! poo poo, I might level crafters this expansion then. I'm still getting them all caught up to 60 for repairs, aside from moogle dailies there was nothing good about crafters in HW
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Jun 27, 2017 19:55
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ImpAtom posted:That's a remarkably unnerving description. Hey man all Koji is doing is pointing out that you want a mechanical reconstruction of a young girl of ten summers. His hands are clean here. Are yours? 
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