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im a Belieber! posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon Babylon was also one of the most haunting episodes of Carnivāle, a show about a supernatural war between good and evil that is destined to undergo a permanent shift when the explosion of the Trinity test on July 16, 1945 brings about the end of the age of wonder and begins the age of reason. Said episode was about a ghostly mining camp full of creepy, shuffling, dirt-covered miners,starred Michael J. Anderson, and hinged on the tragic murder of a young woman who was also a sex worker. Actually, come to think of it, the bad guy in Carnivale used an old-timey radio station to enthrall the population of the American southwest too.
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Jun 28, 2017 04:39
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skasion posted:not really the right allusion to make there since the quote is over 2000 years old Here's another one: America is not a young land: it is old and dirty and evil. Before the settlers, before the Indians... the evil was there... waiting. - William Burroughs
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Jun 28, 2017 04:41
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Guy Mann posted:Babylon was also one of the most haunting episodes of Carnivàle, a show about a supernatural war between good and evil that is destined to undergo a permanent shift when the explosion of the Trinity test on July 16, 1945 brings about the end of the age of wonder and begins the age of reason. Said episode was about a ghostly mining camp full of creepy, shuffling, dirt-covered miners,starred Michael J. Anderson, and hinged on the tragic murder of a young woman who was also a sex worker. Yeah I read of this parallel and it's kind of neat. Also it's a mirroring because the nuclear test in Carnivale would mark end of magic whereas in Twin Peaks it was, if not a beginning, a major awakening. I wish Carnivale had gone on. 
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Jun 28, 2017 04:44
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Guy Mann posted:Babylon was also one of the most haunting episodes of Carnivàle, a show about a supernatural war between good and evil that is destined to undergo a permanent shift when the explosion of the Trinity test on July 16, 1945 brings about the end of the age of wonder and begins the age of reason. Said episode was about a ghostly mining camp full of creepy, shuffling, dirt-covered miners,starred Michael J. Anderson, and hinged on the tragic murder of a young woman who was also a sex worker. Dang. I guess it's time I finally watch Carnivale.
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Jun 28, 2017 04:51
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im a Belieber! posted:Dang. I guess it's time I finally watch Carnivale. Did I mention that the bad guy of the show is played by Clancy Brown?  It's really good and it's aged fantastically because it was pretty ahead of its time, both for good (great production values, serial storytelling with a plot that actually had an outline and an ending from day one, a huge cast with lots of cool character actors) and ill (the show starting really slowly because the creator was so into their Master Plan and losing tons of viewers and eventually being cancelled after only two seasons as a result). If you're still sticking around with Twin Peaks by now then you can probably handle the slow start, but Babylon is episode 5 of the first season and that was the real  episode that had me hooked for the rest of it.It kind of has the opposite pacing problem of Twin Peaks, where season one is really slow and decompressed and focuses a lot more on the day-to-day life of the traveling circus and all the crazy characters in it while in season two it moves much quicker because cancellation was looming and it actually manages to have a good, satisfying ending while also having a few big revelations that give you an idea of how it would have continued.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:10
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Neurosis posted:Yeah I read of this parallel and it's kind of neat. Also it's a mirroring because the nuclear test in Carnivale would mark end of magic whereas in Twin Peaks it was, if not a beginning, a major awakening. Carnivale ended at the right time. There's this insanely detailed show bible that made it all too clear it was going to massively overexplain all the mystical stuff as it went on and suck all the magic out of the show. he had hyper detailed lineages of the magic guys mapped out, explanations of their powers, histories of the "houses" of magic dudes, etc. It was bound to turn into YA fantasy.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:11
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Guy Mann posted:Did I mention that the bad guy of the show is played by Clancy Brown? we have really opposite takes on this show apparently. For me the show was very much about the day-to-day misery of life in the dust bowl, with the mysticism acting as a way to highlight and explore various themes of the depression. I think the show would have suffered from becoming about the mechanical details of all the magic crap rather than being about day-to-day human suffering and the way a glimmer of hope (be it from a genuine christ figure or a charming antichrist) can radically change peoples' decision making. The Boy and The Preacher are avatars (  ) of larger themes: great leaders or great deceivers who gave people hope in hard times and used that hope to good or bad ends.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:14
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cis autodrag posted:Carnivale ended at the right time. There's this insanely detailed show bible that made it all too clear it was going to massively overexplain all the mystical stuff as it went on and suck all the magic out of the show. he had hyper detailed lineages of the magic guys mapped out, explanations of their powers, histories of the "houses" of magic dudes, etc. It was bound to turn into YA fantasy. Perhaps. It might have just given structure to events without being explicit. We'll never know. He wanted to finish it as a comics or novel but HBO are sitting on the rights.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSP-ewdJYJc&t=607s I cannot loving believe that the frog moths!! made their way into Twin Peaks.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:35
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Lanz posted:EDIT: Would Cooper love the Sinner's Sandwich? Everyone who gives the Sinner's Sandwich a chance loves it, OP
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Jun 28, 2017 05:38
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To further the inversion of what Twin Peaks might be saying about the bomb, here's an interview with Carnivale' creator https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.avclub.com/amp/92877 in which he saysDaniel Knauf posted:The big idea that we were children until we detonated these two bombs out in the desert. We always say, “Oh, isn’t it a horrible thing? Oh, it’s the nuclear age. Now we wrestle with destroying ourselves as a species,” and it’s looked upon as a completely negative thing. But in a way, I look at it as when we were able to put away childish things. That’s when we got our first apartment. That’s, people started to go, “Hey, wait a second.” I think right up until that moment, the idea that we could destroy ourselves was absurd. Now we take it for granted. We start to look at it, “Well poo poo, we got the holes in the ozone layer.” We become aware that we’re capable of existential destruction, and I think that’s part of growing up as a species. Anyway I'll be quiet about a dead show
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Jun 28, 2017 05:50
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Remember the monster in the glass box? The one many of us thought might be "Mother" due to the timing of events between Coop in the Purple/Pink room and the high-rise in New York? I've realized a thing. Glass Box Entity  Now, with the new episode we've been introduced to a similar-looking being, and many have also likened to calling it "Mother" (in this case because it spews out, or births, eggs including one with BOB's face on it). Birthing Entity  I don't know if people have been conflating this creature with the previous one, but in any case they appear to be rather distinct in appearance. I think the glass box creature might be one of the "grays" mentioned in the Secret History book (often mentioned alongside "the Nordic ones"). Thank you to whoever figured this out already and made a video illustrating this for me. Enjoy. ** The section narrated in that clip (a Douglas Milford file once again) has to do with an underground base funded and run in secret by then-President Nixon (who at this point is wearing the jade ring, btw). Being shown around by him and an unnamed general, Milford and Jackie Gleason (yep) see the room described in the above clip. The parallels between this place and the high-rise in New York seem, to me, to not be a coincidence. **Edit: Yes, I know the video's been edited to exaggerate. That doesn't change what's there, though. TheMaestroso fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 06:12
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Neurosis posted:To further the inversion of what Twin Peaks might be saying about the bomb, here's an interview with Carnivale' creator https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.avclub.com/amp/92877 in which he says An apartment? Above a convenience store, perhaps?  Everything is connected now.TheMaestroso posted:Glass Box Entity Yeah, they look distinct, but kind of similar. I really hope it's not necessary to read the book because I really don't give a poo poo. 
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Jun 28, 2017 07:48
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For what it's worth I think Lynch has said the book isn't needed. As it is, the book was clearly written by Frost after the show was scripted and it's his attempt to weave it all together. I like the book, but a lot of it feels like notes him and Lynch might've made together without intending it to be in the show.
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Jun 28, 2017 09:44
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Cephas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSP-ewdJYJc&t=607s I am laughing so hard at the idea of otherworld sea being violet sugar water.
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Jun 28, 2017 11:06
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Hey guys, I don't know if this particular fact has yet been reported in this thread, but Robert Broski, who play the, uh, primary and particularly vocal/murderous Woodsman in last night's episode.... Well, Broski has 11 acting credits on IMDb, and with the exception of playing "The Woodsman", it would he is playing Abraham Lincoln in every other credit. He is primarily known for his role in Linclone, and he played ol' Honest Abe in Pee-Wee's Big Holiday (!), and basically he makes his living as, clearly, one of the finest Abraham Lincoln impersonators out there. So uh, I don't really know if it means anything at all, but I get the feeling Lynch *does* in fact want this Woodsmen character to evoke Abraham Lincoln perhaps, on some level. The only big connection I can perhaps really imagine is that perhaps 'The Woodsman' are spirits related to that last time that American soil was responsible for a massive degree of bloodshed and murder and hatred - i.e., The Civil War, which is about as close as Americans came to creating a literal blood-soaked hell-on-earth.... Until the Atomic Bomb.
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Jun 28, 2017 13:08
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I'm always inspired by Lincoln's famous "Got a Light" speech
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Jun 28, 2017 13:23
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Four skulls and seven lights ago,
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Jun 28, 2017 13:59
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TheMaestroso posted:Birthing Entity
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Jun 28, 2017 14:21
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This is the four score, and this is the seven years ago.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:21
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I'm sure this has been mentioned, but Harry S. Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Also, the title Twin Peaks could be an oblique reference to those two blasts. Is there a good article showing all the nuclear references because this is blowing my mind a bit.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:28
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cliffy posted:I'm sure this has been mentioned, but Harry S. Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Also, the title Twin Peaks could be an oblique reference to those two blasts. It blows my mind that Twin Peaks Seasons 1-2 exist as a complete(ish) work that would never really invoke the invention of nuclear war, and now that TPS3 has introduced that, going back reveals a million amazing things that make you go "ahhh it was nukes the whole time!" Lynchian genius, happy accident, or just the human propensity for inventing patterns? You be the judge.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:37
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cliffy posted:I'm sure this has been mentioned, but Harry S. Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Also, the title Twin Peaks could be an oblique reference to those two blasts. Frankly, I feel like I need to watch the ENTIRETY of seasons 1 and 2 in light of this mind-blowing episode because... well, quite frankly it's like Lynch/Frost just switched on some purple ultra-violet light that quite literally casts the show how in a whole new light, a whole new context. I am also realizing that "Blue Rose" cases probably refers to the cases that have some connection to The Trinity Test and what happened out in New Mexico (and 'supernatural' occurrences there). I almost get the sense that in the Twin Peaks Universe, 'Roswell 1947" may have more to do with creepy woodsmen than actual aliens? Who the hell knows. I feel like there is absolutely no doubt that the "three-triangle" brands that Garland Briggs, Maragaret Coulson (Log-Lady), Carl Rodd, and the third kid that got abducted/vanished *all* returned from where-ever they went with what appear to be nuclear symbols. Does Dale "Dougie" Cooper-Jones have any such mark? I wonder. I also wonder just exactly what it symbolized. I do not believe it's the same as the "tattoos" that Mike and Bob initially had on their upper left arms, though. Man. A lot to think about. I think... the question of "is it future? or is it past?" seems especially relevant. We always knew there was something pretty screwy about the Red Room in general - I honestly doubt Cooper lived through all those thousands upon thousands of days and felt all that time pass in The Red Room before he got out, but.... Well, once again, who really knows? I wish I had a better cohesive idea of what was going on, but to quote Gordon Cole.... 'I hate to admit, but I really have no goddamn clue what's going on here." And I usually feel like I generally get the overall THRUST of each episode, since I always feel fairly tuned into Lynch's sensibility and the way he directs and writes largely via making intuitive connections, and I'm usually right there with him it feels like. But this episode, parts of it confound me even more than some of the weirdest parts of Eraserhead... but worse because it is Twin Peaks which has always been comfortingly toned down a bit and edged the nightmarish horror with dark humor and quirky, fun characters. But not this last episode
kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 15:14
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We still have Franz Kafka and the big ear of corn to go before we have Gordon Cole's framed pictures figured out. Speaking of which, Lynch posted:"Yes, I identify a lot with the character [Gregor Samsa], but I don't wanna go into all the reason's why."
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Jun 28, 2017 16:08
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Not really related to this episode (though I loved it, for the record), but it's just something I thought of. Is anyone else occasionally struck with a little existential dread when the show really spotlights how old and sickly everyone is? It seems pretty deliberate. Maybe it's just tapping into my own fears a little, it's effective.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:58
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Lanz posted:does this room seem simultaneously smaller and larger than it should be to anyone else? YES!!! I saw this too. I looks like it's normal but then there's parts where it definitely is proportionally smaller, like to make the giant look bigger I guess? This was really awesome and subtly disorienting to me. Section 9 posted:There are bizarre beings outside of our understanding in the cosmos, and someone somehow discovered a way to trap them in a glass box. But the box wasn't strong enough to contain it and it escaped and murderized the spectators. Or something like that. Seems pretty straightforward. After the most recent episode, my literal look at the glass box is that the spectator isn't hired to be on alert of something appearing in it or to monitor it, they're really hired to be there so that whatever comes out has someone to destroy, which satiates it or otherwise keeps it from from proceeding further. Someone mentioned how a version of the room/glass box/etc. is mentioned prominently in the book though so I don't know if that would provide any extra confirmation of it. I just assumed it was Leland and Sarah at first too but IIRC Leland mentions in season one that he met BOB at his grandfather's vacation home in Pearl Lakes (which is near Glastonberry Grove - they don't outright say why he ended up living in Twin Peaks as an adult but now we know). Leland went to college in Washington and then lived in Twin Peaks ever after. When Leland says that it's definitely Leland talking and not a BOB moment, so it would seem weird if the couple was Leland and Sarah even if the time frame about lines up. BUT it would also make sense, like Experiment gets pregnant (even though it was just a kiss) and some other poo poo goes down and this makes Leland a pariah and he has to leave town for a while? BOB follows him to that vacation home since hell Pearl Lakes is canonically close to Glastonberry Grove anyway, so BOB is drawn there also? I'm still catching up on the thread so I apologize as I'm sure someone already mentioned this but wasn't Cooper born in 1954? The girl is possibly Cooper's mom. Maybe BOB/etc. can only actually possess people that eat a chipmunkfrogroach. Is Cooper "of the lodge" in a more literal way than we thought? It would be fitting given his incredible luck and evil Cooper's incredible bad luck (so far). We basically see two types of "eggs" put forth, BOB's and Laura's, so while we see the "Mother" entity thing spewing out eggs there's enough stuff going on and a timelapse that by the time the egg actually hatches, I don't know if that's necessarily BOB coming out of it. Or maybe it's both of them at once somehow. I also thought the guy was maybe Garland Briggs and this was how he got involved in the supernatural/ended up at Twin Peaks, and again I think the ages line up about right, but if that's the case then he was playing it WAAAY to close to the chest in seasons one and two and way too out of the loop compared to the implications of what Cooper/Cole suspect is going on in FWWM. Garland seems very new to all of this stuff, but at the same time, he made it to the White Lodge and back and reappears in like WWII fighter pilot gear to imply him being free from time/etc., and we know the Lodges don't particularly give a poo poo about what time it is in the real world to us. nopants posted:the hobo ghosts dont even seem sentient to me. they act more like they are programmed to fulfill a a purpose and then gently caress off afterwards. i feel sorry for hobo lincoln who died looking for a light during an a-bomb test and then was brought back to brain smash some people and recite poem magic so frogroach bob could climb inside some poor girl's mouth They immediately reminded me of hungry ghosts in Buddhism. People who in their mind were victims of extreme greed (or extremely greedy themselves) who are periodically allowed to reappear on earth to consume consume consume consume any way they can and then peace out. It lined up with the way Abe "Got A Light?" Lincoln is almost incoherent at first, his voice only becomes clear as he stays in our world longer. This episode completely blew me away. Was this the most art film thing ever made for TV? It's incredible and I can't believe how much it just added to the show with almost no dialogue. Also it's silly but all the references to Lynch's past work throughout it, after Universal other major players keep attempting shared cinematic universes and failing miserably and dropping hundreds of millions of dollars in the process. LMAO forever if David Lynch just successfully merged all of his stuff together with 35 minutes of a Nine Inch Nails song, an atomic bomb, and Abe Lincoln doing a City of the Living Dead impersonation. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 16:58
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I always figured the glass box room was a sacrificial pit because the security guard and everyone else was gone that day
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Jun 28, 2017 17:06
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Cephas posted:We still have Franz Kafka and the big ear of corn to go before we have Gordon Cole's framed pictures figured out. This has already been done as perfectly as possible though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uaaF83eVig
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Jun 28, 2017 17:15
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If Leland's account of meeting Bob when he was a kid is accurate, then the frog thing may have just been Bob taking possession of someone for the first time. We could then assume he switches bodies over the course of the next few years and eventually meets Leland as a child when he's in the body of a guy who looks exactly like Frank Silva.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:18
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TheMaestroso posted:
I think the Grey's are the 8 hobo-ghosts? Maybe? One take I had: The two dark entities could be a mirror to the Giant/Senorita (Good/Evil) One is obviously a "man" and one is very obviously a "woman". I still don't know what the woman in the Purple room is/was or even what the purple room is and what was behind the door but it certainly felt sinister.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:21
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Just to go over the sequence again: Nuke Woodmen at the convenience store doing something Bob vomit Back to nuclear fire Golden blob Dark realm with red dots that remind me of a bloodstream Purple Sea and power ranger base. What I would read into this is that the frog thing is about Bob since the sequence is sort of a repeat of the earlier one, the Black lodge and the giant are from fundamentally different places since we do go back to the nuke fire in between. Then finally and the one I'm least certain of: The Power Ranger base has something to do with life since that is what the screens just before it invoke.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:37
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Something about the convenience store time lapse scene reminded me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY
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Jun 28, 2017 18:01
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Basebf555 posted:If Leland's account of meeting Bob when he was a kid is accurate, then the frog thing may have just been Bob taking possession of someone for the first time. We could then assume he switches bodies over the course of the next few years and eventually meets Leland as a child when he's in the body of a guy who looks exactly like Frank Silva.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:15
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DevCore posted:I think the Grey's are the 8 hobo-ghosts? Maybe?
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Jun 28, 2017 18:50
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Krinkle posted:When you say 90s point and click adventure game do you mean like... monkey island? I don't get what you mean. There's a lot of 90s point and click adventure games that were definitely influenced by stuff like Twin Peaks and the X-Files regarding spaces where things are just kind of off. Weird mishmashes of art deco to 50s Americana and more advanced technology with the supernatural, possession, etc. that also attempted to ape the the voice and weird humor of the shows too. That post made me immediately think of bits of Harvester, The Dark Eye, Bad Day on the Midway (IIRC Lynch was involved this one in some way) Sanitarium, Dark Seed II, and a few others. Like the model of the convenience store in this episode, what we see of the space we're assuming is the White Lodge, that post hit me just fine because it really did remind me of the the backgrounds/situations a lot of these games would use. The most interesting part of that is the technology though, like a lot of weird vague machinery is in those games as an excuse to have puzzles in places where in the real world one would pry a door open or unplug a computer or something similarly mundane to progress.   
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 18:54
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The monster in the glass box had its chest censored in the free streaming version so either it's also female or someone mistakenly thought it is.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:11
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DevCore posted:I think the Grey's are the 8 hobo-ghosts? Maybe? That's what I was thinking until the bit I referred to in that post. The description given of the "grays" is consistent in all the accounts in the book thus far, and it fits the appearance of the Glass Box Entity (gray skin, bulbous head, large black eyes).
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Jun 28, 2017 19:32
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DevCore posted:I still don't know what the woman in the Purple room is/was or even what the purple room is and what was behind the door but it certainly felt sinister. The red room seems to be where the entities reside when they're their interacting with humans or on the cusp of doing so. The convenience store and Glastonbury Grove are other sides of that, but in Earth territory. The purple area seems to be their own realm where they do their own thing, though they can still observe Earth from afar.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:41
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CJacobs posted:The monster in the glass box had its chest censored in the free streaming version so either it's also female or someone mistakenly thought it is. Apparently Lynch edited that version himself.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:46
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That all dovetails really nicely with how Garland Briggs works at a facility trying to pick up extraterrestrial signals that's based on Twin Peaks. So that sets a precedent for the FBI/Briggs/whoever runs the current glass box facility knowing what's up but not quite putting all the pieces together because some perceive these events as threats from space instead of threats from within the potential for evil in the human heart. Or as the sayings about being judgmental are sometimes worded... "When things are going good people look in the mirror, when things are going bad people look out the window." "Look in the mirror before you look out the window." 
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 19:53
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