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queeb posted:Probably not the best idea putting in 2 really anticipated classes and doing some tank nerf/changes that people might be unhappy with. It was pretty poor timing, unfortunately. Adding two of the most highly-anticipated DPS jobs at the same time while also making tanks less fun to play and not adding anything particularly exciting to healers might not have been the best move. I've been told queues were pretty awful for a while after Heavensward launched, too, even though that added a tank and healer (that both ended up significantly more popular than the DPS job it added), but I can't possibly imagine they were this bad. Obviously FFXIV doesn't have different specs for its jobs, but there's a reason that every class added to WoW post-launch has been able to do at least two roles (all three in the case of Monk). A 50S RAYGUN posted:how much does this really change though? i've seen dps in need like once in my life and that's the role that's routinely scraping the barrel for xp sources. all that would do would make leveling tanks and sometimes healers easier, which was never a huge issue anyway. One thing they could do is make it actually give something players want. Bonus EXP is nice, but it only applies to that job you're leveling. If there was some other reward that would actually draw people to the role, something that's either really desirable cosmetics or bonuses for your other jobs too or something, that might be good. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 15:30
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Harrow posted:One thing they could do is make it actually give something players want. Bonus EXP is nice, but it only applies to that job you're leveling. If there was some other reward that would actually draw people to the role, something that's either really desirable cosmetics or bonuses for your other jobs too or something, that might be good. IIRC this was the logic behind tying the unique unicorn mount behind the WHM job questline and giving each of the tanks a unique achievement-based mount. So it's at least been tried, just not in the favored queue role thing (though I wouldn't be opposed to giving tanks/healers the loot-crate equivalent of a high-level retainer venture with a chance at a rare minion as an Adventurer In Need bonus, that actually sounds kinda neat).
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Jun 28, 2017 15:34
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I firmly believe that the two new classes could have been both tanks (or even a tank and healer) that were a blast to play and DPS queues would still be obnoxious. That's just the nature of the game imo
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Jun 28, 2017 15:34
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wow gives a shot at mounts and gold and other loot in the call to arms for tank or healer or whatever, more poo poo like that would own.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:35
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Doesn't WoW do something like give the role in deed a chest with a chance at rare pets or whatever from other various sources? Why not do that.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:35
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What if there was something like a weekly "role in need" reward for each roulette? For example, if you queue as a tank for the leveling roulette, you get a noticeably-increased armory bonus for the rest of the week, so for players who are leveling other jobs, taking the time to tank a roulette once per week makes leveling that other job meaningfully faster. Maybe weekly bonus tomes for other roulettes, stuff like that. Make it so that even if you're not a tank main, if you have a tank leveled, it actually helps your character in general if you take the time to tank roulettes once in a while. Or yeah, rare mounts, pets, maybe costumes.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:36
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you will not get people to play tank or heal that do not want to. all most of these would do would have the unwashed DPS masses screaming about how SE hates them.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:40
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how good is dungeon grinding in SB? I just hit 61 drk, should I spam the 61 dungeon over and over compared to pvp or whatever?
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Jun 28, 2017 15:45
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I never play tank/healer jobs. I gave early attempts at warrior and paladin in XIV, and had a very very niche style PLD in XI. Sometimes it's because I like the lack of responsibility other than hit things. If everyone starts dying it can't be directly my part. The other part is I play casually to the point of not paying 100% attention.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:46
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dungeons are the fastest way to get xp in most situations. the reason it is ever slow is waiting in queues, which, congrats, you don't have to do.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:46
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If you can get a decent premade group going, PVP is a blast where you can easily steamroll people who have no idea or don't care about what they're doing. It might not be as time effective as dungeons, but it sure is a lot more fun.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:48
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I do really like to play healers, but I prefer to do MSQ stuff on a job with a DPS job. So I'll be leveling AST eventually and hopefully helping people with queues. I actually wish RDM had been a healer so that I could be a healer with a sword and still feel cool doing MSQ and in cutscenes and poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:52
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Verranicus posted:Doesn't WoW do something like give the role in deed a chest with a chance at rare pets or whatever from other various sources? Why not do that. No. The role in need box in WoW is an extra piece of loot appropriate for your class/spec from one of the dungeon bosses. Still might be a good incentive, though.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:52
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:dungeons are the fastest way to get xp in most situations. the reason it is ever slow is waiting in queues, which, congrats, you don't have to do. Basically if you are a tank or a healer doing the highest leveled dungeon you qualify for is the best exp for time ratio. Because of queues, DPS has a better time in PotD pre 60 and PVP post 60 (at the moment).
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Jun 28, 2017 15:52
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i like tanking because i get to set the pace of poo poo. who cares if people die and you suck, you have an instant queue right back into whatever you want to do. I like not having to wait around for pulls or an afk person or whatever. everyone is at your mercy and its great edit: but dont be a dick about it
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Jun 28, 2017 15:52
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hagie posted:The other part is I play casually to the point of not paying 100% attention. As a serial tank, to be frank you can just AOE spam everything in a dungeon and faceroll your cooldowns occasionally and get people through 99% of content without paying attention to much of anything at all. Tanks can be complicated if you're trying to play optimally, but for the most part the tank mechanics and holding hate are dead simple. queeb posted:how good is dungeon grinding in SB? I just hit 61 drk, should I spam the 61 dungeon over and over compared to pvp or whatever? With rested XP I was typically getting 1/3 or 1/4 of a level from dungeon runs as WAR. The only side quest I did between 62 and 70 was the one to unlock the 63 dungeon.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:54
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queeb posted:how good is dungeon grinding in SB? I just hit 61 drk, should I spam the 61 dungeon over and over compared to pvp or whatever? I dungeon spammed my drk to 70 over two days and I would take frequent breaks in between runs. You could probably do it in a day if you put your nose to the grindstone. Planning on doing the same thing to my last tank to level, war as soon as my rested exp replenishes.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:55
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Healers are similar, you can make dungeons a lot quicker as one
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Jun 28, 2017 15:56
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yeah tank can be complicated if you want to stance swap and whatever, but if you just want to be lazy and fart around just stay in tank stance and mash aoe and you'll coast through no problem. you dont have to try and be optimal and max out your dps and poo poo if its just a dungeon
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Jun 28, 2017 15:56
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hagie posted:I never play tank/healer jobs. I gave early attempts at warrior and paladin in XIV, and had a very very niche style PLD in XI.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:57
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queeb posted:i like tanking because i get to set the pace of poo poo. who cares if people die and you suck, you have an instant queue right back into whatever you want to do. I like not having to wait around for pulls or an afk person or whatever. everyone is at your mercy and its great Occasionally I get a dps or a healer who is impatient as hell and will start pulling things for me. Normally I take that as a passive-aggressive sign to pull a little more but when it's my first time in the 70 dungeon I'm not doing that, and it gets annoying after the third time. Just say something, anything when I ask to take your time! But it gets super annoying when they pull the boss(!) while I'm trying to ask for tips pre-pull. They didn't get a comm from me.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:00
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Dps and heals running ahead of me is how I learned to speed pull every stormblood dungeon. The pulling the boss thing is kinda lame, unless it's a monk then I totally understand. I got through raubahn's wall day one though so there wasn't anyone to ask for tips on bosses. (I wouldn't have wanted them anyway though)
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Jun 28, 2017 16:09
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SettingSun posted:Occasionally I get a dps or a healer who is impatient as hell and will start pulling things for me. Normally I take that as a passive-aggressive sign to pull a little more but when it's my first time in the 70 dungeon I'm not doing that, and it gets annoying after the third time. Just say something, anything when I ask to take your time! But it gets super annoying when they pull the boss(!) while I'm trying to ask for tips pre-pull. They didn't get a comm from me. thats what shirk is for, gently caress I love that skill. it's basically a gently caress you dps button. i guess this falls into the being a dick category but after 3 times of doing it giving them a time out is great. I ususally just ask the healer how comfortable they are, or just say ima pull 2 packs to start and see how it goes.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:09
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if someone else pulls and i'm fairly confident in my ability to regain aggro naturally i'll just let them get their poo poo rocked for a few GCDs
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Jun 28, 2017 16:10
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I'm not one to start an argument while in a dungeon so I roll with it, but that doesn't make it less annoying, especially after I asked them to cut it out.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:13
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When I first started tanking I got annoyed by that too, but I found that the best solution was to always be ahead of them so that they have neither a reason nor a chance to pull before me.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:14
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Yeah that's my usual MO too, though in this case while we're occupied with a mob already the healer would edge forward and activate the next mob, which in the 70 dungeon just darts from around the corner like in Baelsar's Wall. I'd pull it if I knew it was there, so they obviously had to know that would happen.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:20
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Velthice posted:unless it's a monk then I totally understand why?
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Jun 28, 2017 16:20
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Rascyc posted:Once the expansion gets further in you should try scholar. It really is the most stare at the ceiling type job once people overgear content. My Smn is 60, so it is already there. I randomly did the 50-60 job quests for SCH for no specific reason and I was completely lost. I got lucky several times by simply kiting instance bosses, or focused healing on a NPC. I might consider giving it a try, but I am so DPS focused. I have every DPS job at 60 (if my memory serves me right). Smn was my OG after I ditched Drg at 50 back at 1.0-2.0 . Mch was my recent love, and I screwed around on Brd because of the gear sharing. Hell I played on Blm because of the Smn gear. Right now I am really digging Sam. I hated Mnk and only have it at 42, and gave up 60Nin because of occasional lag in ninjutsu casting. Tanks and healers just never gave me a sense of "fun" I guess.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:22
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hagie posted:Tanks and healers just never gave me a sense of "fun" I guess. To each their own. My first character is a white mage because I've always loved healing in MMOs and mained a healer in WoW and TOR both. Near instant queues is always a plus. Tanking, now that is the role I can't stand.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:24
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Mr. Nice! posted:I agree the PLD gauge is pretty dumb, but it's nice to be able to toss shields on the MT indiscriminately if I'm OT. how are you guys getting 3k? I've seen plds get 3k as well as MT but the down time during the hold sword phase tanks the meter.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:26
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Shy posted:why? Monks lose out on a lot of damage if we have to wait for everyone to be nice and lined up before every pull.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:27
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I made it to 70 last night on DRK, and was wondering about rotation. It seems like Passenger is useless except on 2 targets, or 11+ targets, so I've been spamming Abyssal with a little bit of syphon strike if needed. Is there a specific MP % I should stay above? I'm pretty much using DA on everything except Quietus, and not DAing syphon strike if I don't have enough for both it and Souleater DA'd. I'm still learning when I'm able to drop Grit, and still am having a bit of trouble with RDM/SAM aggro if I do drop Grit for Blood Weapon. I'm using Blackest Night when a tankbuster comes for the 50 gauge, too along with Carve and Split w/ DA on cooldown. Pretty much just wandering if there's anything else I need to be working on or if that's it. I've heard it might be better just to go to syphon strike instead of follow through with Souleater sometimes?
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Jun 28, 2017 16:28
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Cythereal posted:To each their own. My first character is a white mage because I've always loved healing in MMOs and mained a healer in WoW and TOR both. Near instant queues is always a plus. Yeah, healing is great. I generally like to play a DPS role through story things because it's more "active" and I like to imagine my character's right there on the front lines of big story fights, but I also really enjoy healing so that's always what I level second. Though apparently there's at least one time that Stormblood's story actually recognizes that you're a healer, which is pretty sweet.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:32
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I love tanking and healing and find DPS boring as poo poo for the most part. Red Mage and Summoner are okay but that's about it
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Jun 28, 2017 16:35
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Which zone is Ixion in? Brainamp posted:Monks lose out on a lot of damage if we have to wait for everyone to be nice and lined up before every pull. Also ninjas. If my Huton is ticking down while nothing is happening, the tank is getting a Shadewalker and we're pressing on. Because I know if I just wait like a good boy and just re-apply it, the tank will in fact pull before I can Hide and refresh the mudras.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:36
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I'd like healing more if I could figure out a click healing setup like I had in WoW. Healing without it just isn't the same. It's still my preferred role but the archaic party UI makes me sad.Magil Zeal posted:The correct move would be to buff other sources of EXP like dungeons. Though that still wouldn't work for DPS at this point (Samurai really should have been a tank class imo). Ultimately though people are going to do whatever is fastest whether it's PvP or PotD or FATE farming and people will think it should change and the current way is boring or whatever. It's probably honestly for the best currently that the best methods of EXP grinding aren't locked behind a queuewall. If dungeons stay the main source of XP, loot and progression currencies, larger parties would help, but I assume Tanaka design(TM) makes this hard. Every other MMO goes with 3 DPS per tank and healer, and they still have queues. FF14 makes queues longer for DPS because of the 4-man format. please knock Mom! posted:Healers are similar, you can make dungeons a lot quicker as one Unless you're playing the wrong healer 
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Jun 28, 2017 16:37
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SonicRulez posted:Which zone is Ixion in? The Lochs
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Jun 28, 2017 16:37
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Mr. Nice! posted:http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/332737-Against-Simultaneous-Logout-Measures I just think it's funny that Balmung gets blamed for everything, for whatever reason. A few days ago there was a thread with the OP complaining that Balmung migrants had gentrified their server SettingSun posted:I firmly believe that the two new classes could have been both tanks (or even a tank and healer) that were a blast to play and DPS queues would still be obnoxious. That's just the nature of the game imo I don't remember hearing about DPS queues being so bad for Heavensward, but I never tried playing a DPS. Also, at the end of 3.5x, my queue times with a healer were 5-10 minutes for everything but trials. Now it's almost always instant.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:39
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orcane posted:SAM being tanks would probably have helped a bit in this first month when everyone is trying out new classes, but not much (I heard it didn't really help in HW? I wasn't there) - I can emphasize with the argument (and apparently Yoshi's data) that it's mostly tank players switching to new tank jobs rather than DPS players picking up tanking, so the net effect is about zero. The queues tend to soften over time anyway though, the early stages are where help is most needed. Ex Roulette queues as a DPS never really lasted much longer than 20 minutes through most of 3.x (if that), but yesterday I had to wait over 50 minutes.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:42
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