macfam posted:So it's like earthbound/mother 3 where it takes awhile for your hp numbers to go down such that if you take an attack that does more damage than you have health you won't die if someone heals enough damage before your health ticks down to zero? How forgiving. I guess it would be balanced out by having such a class take more damage than other tanks so that in the end it doesn't really matter. Sort of, but it's more subtle than that because you're just chopping off like 10-20% of each hit without cooldowns and taking it over 8 seconds, so it's really more just smoothing out the damage than anything else, and it gives healers a bigger window to deal with the problem than normal. Also the dot is Green if it's low stagger, yellow if it's medium, and red if it's high, so it's easy to tell at a glance how much damage it's doing.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:54
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Blue Mage could work as a concept by having their class quests grant them most of their skills, and those quests involved killing all manner of things.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:54
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Since I got my other peripheral (the beautiful G13 which is now welded to my left hand) from this thread, I figured I'd ask about finding something for my right hand (insert snark here). I currently use a Logitech wireless trackball mouse because I a) love trackballs b) hate needing a surface for a mouse when I'm lazing back in my chair and c) hate cords. That said, said mouse comes with a dismaying lack of buttons, having only 3. I'd love to find a gaming mouse, preferably with a trackball, if anyone has a recommendation.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:55
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What I mostly want from BLU is skills inspired by enemy attacks, but not necessarily matching the exact effects. Bad Breath might be a cone DoT or slow or something, or similar to Overpower, if they went the magic tank route. Would also be cool to have some kind of mimic skill, that you can pop, absorb an attack, and send it back in some way.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:56
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Mr. Nice! posted:This is a couple of pages back, but I wanted to respond because of how I do things different and what I've gathered talking to people. Basically you wanna requiescat first instead of FoF first since it's your biggest burst damage. If I'm MT I'll open with one rage combo, req, holy spirit spam, then FoF and straight into DPS combos to rebuild mana for the next req. Aggro is not an issue so there's no need to FoF on open, plus this takes advantage of all the pull time buffs with your max dps burst. If I'm OT, I start immediately with req, holy spirit spam, then FoF and dps combos. A whole FoF rotation is 5160 potency over 10 GCDs with Requiescat after the final GCD, which should be Glory Blade. Shield swipes excluded but assuming full potency on Spirits Within, and without slashing debuffs. This is also not taking in to account the potency of Sword Oath for OT or when you have the enmity lead. Theres also the 400 potency on your initial fast and riot blade before popping FoF. Holy Spirit spam is 350 potency on the Requiescat, then 516 per GCD as well, unaffected by Slashing debuffs completely, but you're also missing out the FoF boost on Requiescat and you also don't auto attack during casting. Latency can also cause clipping trying to use ogcds here, which could end up with your final Holy Spirit not being buffed. It's basically the same potency/GCD in the end, but you lose a bit with a FoFless Requiescat. Alone or in a party without slashing debuffs, yeah, starting off with Holy Spirit might be mechanically better. But with them, FoF definitelt edges ahead. Skaw fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 19:58
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Blue mage as a job using CUL as the base class, FF9 style. Find interesting monsters and cook them to learn your new abilities. 
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Jun 28, 2017 19:58
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Fister Roboto posted:A yeti class that attacks by throwing other players. An anti rescue where you throw the nearest ally at your target.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:58
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Different (but still solid) Lakshmi EX group. Everyone's yelling at me so I know it's good.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:59
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I would argue that blue mage is far and away much more iconic than SAM. By what measure? Neither is in 3. Both are in 5. Both are in 11. Samurai is in Tactics, but Blue Mage is not. Blue Mage is in both T. Advance games, Samurai is not. Samurai is in X-2, but Blue Mage is not. I think they're perfectly even with some slide made for Blue Mage archetype guys like Quina or Samurai archetypes like Cyan and Auron.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:00
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Reiterpallasch posted:it's actually extremely good that astrologians have to make sometimes uncomfortable decisions instead of clicking off everything that doesn't lead to an expanded balance I think the solution to the problem "ASTs ignore everything that isn't an expanded balance" shouldn't be "Well, lets force them to use the other cards." but instead "Lets make the other cards better." Ewer and Spire should be rolled into one card generic MP/TP regen card. Then, that's more useful because you can apply it to anyone in the party and be beneficial. If you're in a party with all casters, Spire is worthless. You could then change Spire to give a small HP regen instead. Throw out spear completely. Replace it with a different buff. Maybe a 5% crit buff or something? Those changes alone would be enough to get me to use other cards more frequently.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:00
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More because Samurai pops up in tons of other franchises, but Blue Mage is quintessentially FF.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:01
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SonicRulez posted:By what measure? Neither is in 3. Both are in 5. Both are in 11. Samurai is in Tactics, but Blue Mage is not. Blue Mage is in both T. Advance games, Samurai is not. Samurai is in X-2, but Blue Mage is not. I think they're perfectly even with some slide made for Blue Mage archetype guys like Quina or Samurai archetypes like Cyan and Auron. Blue Mage is in X-2, actually, but they just called it the Gun Mage there. Samurai is more iconic but that's because Auron was one and Auron is amazing.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:02
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I don't think we were stealing her hyper-aether so much as the equivalent of shining a really bright light on her new aether-sensitive vision to disorient her. She's watching for tiny aetheric fluctuations to predict moves and we wave that thing around and cause tidal waves of aether to roll around and it disorients her like someone turning the overhead light on first thing in the morning. That is literally what the text of the game says so yes
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Jun 28, 2017 20:03
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SonicRulez posted:By what measure? Neither is in 3. Both are in 5. Both are in 11. Samurai is in Tactics, but Blue Mage is not. Blue Mage is in both T. Advance games, Samurai is not. Samurai is in X-2, but Blue Mage is not. I think they're perfectly even with some slide made for Blue Mage archetype guys like Quina or Samurai archetypes like Cyan and Auron. samurais are in lots of things, blue mages are unique to final fantasy like how moogles are more iconic of final fantasy than wolves
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Jun 28, 2017 20:03
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Beastmaster Tank where your stances are your beasts and you have to fumble with the pet hotbar to mitigate. Also one-handed axes.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:04
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Reiterpallasch posted:like, i realize i'm just making GBS threads on a lot of ideas here, but ffxiv is welded really tightly to the trinity and has a very clear vision for what each member of the trinity should be able to do. it's not really an accident that all the tanks do pretty much the same thing with different flavor/secondary resource mechanics, for example. not having to account for 30 different wild and wacky class gimmicks is one of the reason fight design in this game is so good. I've been saying for ages that a melee healer would never work and will never happen in FFXIV but plenty of people have always been like "No! You're just not thinking outside the box enough!" Nah bro. Melee healers will never happen in this game.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:04
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What we need is a Calculator class who has a regular old numerical resource bar that goes 1-100, but instead of your moves having normal costs they all perform different operations on the bar - some add or subtract, some multiply or divide, some square or square root, etcetera. And your most powerful moves can only be executed under specific conditions like your resource is a perfect square or a prime number or a multiple of seven.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:05
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Mordiceius posted:I've been saying for ages that a melee healer would never work and will never happen in FFXIV but plenty of people have always been like "No! You're just not thinking outside the box enough!" doesn't wow have a melee healer?
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Jun 28, 2017 20:05
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Brother Entropy posted:doesn't wow have a melee healer? The fight design in both games are different.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:06
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The fight design in both games are different. are they different in a way that makes a melee healer untenable in ffxiv?
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Jun 28, 2017 20:07
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Brother Entropy posted:are they different in a way that makes a melee healer untenable in ffxiv? I'd argue yes.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:07
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Brother Entropy posted:doesn't wow have a melee healer? Not anymore I don't think
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Jun 28, 2017 20:08
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Brother Entropy posted:are they different in a way that makes a melee healer untenable in ffxiv? Think about Ifrit Extreme. edit: I don't know how WoW does it, but Square seems to like role-dependent mechanics and it's a lot easier to design those when you can expect those in that role to be doing similar things.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:09
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Captain Oblivious posted:That is literally what the text of the game says so yes It also means we are likely to see a boss fight later in the expansion where the tables are turned and the boss uses a similar attack on the WoL, with the effect of hiding AoE markers and cast bars until you do some mechanic to remove your aether-blindness.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:10
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Brother Entropy posted:are they different in a way that makes a melee healer untenable in ffxiv? Yes. A decent number of fights in FFXIV are based around the idea that the healer is not standing in melee range/near the group. Quick example: Ifrit EX.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:10
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Brother Entropy posted:are they different in a way that makes a melee healer untenable in ffxiv? Potentially, depends on the fight and the group comp. If melee are constantly having to move/miss positionals/lose GCDs because the healer is increasing the chances of a nearby AoE, or if the healer has to interrupt their casts more often to move from the extra AoEs (whereas at ranged they could spread out and have a lesser chance of getting targetted), they'd probably get phased out of the meta until SE adjusted encounters. Considering the encounter design is already pretty good with certain baseline mechanics, I'm alright with them not going wild with a new healer archetype.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:10
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Ainsley McTree posted:Not anymore I don't think Paladins in theory, but in practice no.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:10
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I don't know about melee healers but I do know that a ranged tank just won't work, even through a pet. That pretty much forces them to be bulky weapon fighters, and most of those are already here in the game.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:11
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Captain Oblivious posted:That is literally what the text of the game says so yes Did they ever say why it would only work if we didn't know what it did?
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Jun 28, 2017 20:11
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sword_man.gif posted:while you were partying, i studied the blade This belongs in a museum.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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Brother Entropy posted:doesn't wow have a melee healer? Fistweaving was for a time, but it wasn't really a thing the devs liked and isn't a thing anymore. Right now disc priests heal through damage, but I have no idea how they worked out making that not either mandatory stacking or poo poo and never taken. I feel like there would be no middle ground for it.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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ftr when i think 'melee healer' i don't think 'literally has to be in melee range of allies to heal them' because that's probably the most insufferable idea in the world, i'm just thinking more whatever their weird unique mechanic that other healers don't get involves whacking at monsters in melee range
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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Yukari posted:Did they ever say why it would only work if we didn't know what it did? Fordola would understand your intent, and might be able to adjust.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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Mordiceius posted:Yes. A decent number of fights in FFXIV are based around the idea that the healer is not standing in melee range/near the group. There's also... A4 was it? Where the healers get a JUSTICE disease and need to be away from everyone else.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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Skaw posted:A whole FoF rotation is 5160 potency over 10 GCDs with Requiescat after the final GCD, which should be Glory Blade. Shield swipes excluded but assuming full potency on Spirits Within, and without slashing debuffs. This is also not taking in to account the potency of Sword Oath for OT. Theres also the 400 potency on your initial fast and riot blade before popping FoF. Holy Spirit spam is 350 potency on the Requiescat, then 516 per GCD as well, unaffected by Slashing debuffs completely, but you're also missing out the FoF boost on Requiescat and you also don't auto attack during casting. Latency can also cause clipping trying to use ogcds here, which could end up with your final Holy Spirit not being buffed. I've tested it and as long as the buff is still up when you start casting, you still get the buff. I hadn't thought about req itself getting boosted by FoF, but latency isn't an issue for me getting oGCDs off. One thing I have noticed is you do still auto attack right after the cast, so you don't really miss out on much there either.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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Note Block posted:This belongs in a museum. I hope the name is "It's Tape"
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Jun 28, 2017 20:13
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Yukari posted:Did they ever say why it would only work if we didn't know what it did? Resonant means using the aether to read the intent of people and predict movements based on that, so if you knew what it did she might realize what it does and... cover her third eye? or something?. Urianger brings it up after the fact and explains it.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:13
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Yukari posted:Did they ever say why it would only work if we didn't know what it did? I think it was more that if she knew what we were planning, she could better defend against it or sense our intent or something along those lines. Since we had no idea what we were doing, there was no way for her to defend against it.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:13
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SettingSun posted:I don't know about melee healers but I do know that a ranged tank just won't work, even through a pet. That pretty much forces them to be bulky weapon fighters, and most of those are already here in the game. They don't need to stick to the canon though for new jobs though, FFXI had things like Puppetmaster. Brother Entropy posted:ftr when i think 'melee healer' i don't think 'literally has to be in melee range of allies to heal them' because that's probably the most insufferable idea in the world, i'm just thinking more whatever their weird unique mechanic that other healers don't get involves whacking at monsters in melee range This would still effectively lock out that entire mechanic in Ifrit for significant periods of time and make fights like T7 or T9 a pain in the butt.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:14
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wow's melee healer was never viable as a primary heal role except for like maybe one patch where it was overtuned as gently caress and could pump out both large amounts of healing and dps at the same time. otherwise, you only ever used that spec when it was farm content nobody cared about to make it go a little bit faster. everquest 2 had melee healers but they have almost nothing tied into their melee for healing other than 'you happen to be a healer who also happens to melee' and they ran it into the ground so loving hard that melee healers just play like regular spell casters now. ESO probably is the closest thing you'd get to having melee healers atm? there's probably other games that i can't think of. maybe rift but who cares about rift? i don't think there's anything out there right now that has MEANINGFUL gameplay where doing Melee Things rewards your Healing Things. i would love for that to be the case but it seems like one of those designs where nobody has figured out how to incorporate it properly and balance the game for it.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:15
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