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SettingSun posted:Classic WoW, much like pre-ARR FFXIV is a wild ride to read about and really makes me question how much people really want things like official classic servers and such. I have some friends that were super excited about the classic wow server that went up. With some more modern changes like an improved economy and I think some balance work done so Paladin wasn't just a buffbot, etc. I told them they had serious rose tinted glasses on, that if classic wow dropped today it would be regarded as an awful dumpster fire of design, but they ignored me. They lasted a few weeks. No one even got to 40 I believe. One friend enjoyed that threat management was a thing again, but that was about the only positive that I heard the whole time. Now they're all playing this game.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:38
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I've decided that Gladiator was a mistake. Dark Knight should have been a class, and the job should have been Paladin. I demand my Final Fantasy 4 lore. Fight me Yoshi-P.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:39
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SettingSun posted:Classic WoW, much like pre-ARR FFXIV is a wild ride to read about and really makes me question how much people really want things like official classic servers and such. I honestly think it's just a pining for days gone by. Vanilla WoW had a lot of problems but it was better than anything that was available at the time and it created this community that I think people miss the most. A lot of people were also teenagers or early into college when it came out over a decade ago and had the free time to put up with the stuff the game made you do, like be mountless until level 40, or go on extensive, cross-continental quests. It was unlike anything I had ever played in my life up to that point, so it was really exciting, and I made some friends in the game that were fun to do content with, but I can see now why the design choices then would never work in today's market. FFXIV fits my free time, such as it is, and my play style so much more. All games are timesinks, but with WoW there are so many classes and they all do interesting things, and so many cool races with neat lore, but, up until recently if you wanted to try something else, you had to start all over with nothing. Cross-character mounts weren't a thing, level boosts weren't a thing, you were level 1 with no items. Sure, you could mail yourself some gold and crafted stuff but you wouldn't be progressing on your main. With XIV I can switch to whatever I feel like playing at the time and switch back, but still have the story done. I like that a lot better. It was the main thing that led me to this game.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:44
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Glagha posted:I've decided that Gladiator was a mistake. Dark Knight should have been a class, and the job should have been Paladin. I demand my Final Fantasy 4 lore. Fight me Yoshi-P. He defends 3 times.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:50
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Been loving around with the new UI bars. Complaints about AST's gauge aside, which absolutely pisses me off too, anyone else annoyed by the inconsistent layering of UI elements? It's starting to get a little ridiculous. If you could clearly define that hey, these items need to be layers above this item, this would make for much better usability for poo poo like WAR, where I would *like* to just superimpose the Beast Gauge over my MP bar, but then that leads to problems with it running over my buffs and poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:52
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Prior to Cataclysm, most of my alts languished far, far, far, behind my druid and Warlock. And I'm pretty sure I created and deleted around fifteen Rogues right around the time I got to stranglethorn and decided "no this isn't fun anymore." Heirlooms and cataclysm quest design made things much more enjoyable, and they've been working very hard at making sure that classes and specs feel and behave distinct from each other. It helps that they've made a lot of mistakes along the way and learned from some of them, like Death Knights. 3 tank specs and 3 DPS specs spread across 3 talent trees sure did sound like a great idea, but all it really resulted in was a bunch of people who thought they could tank when they really, desperately, could not. Compratively you actually did see some vengeance Demon Hunters leveling out in the dungeons.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:55
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Glagha posted:I've decided that Gladiator was a mistake. Dark Knight should have been a class, and the job should have been Paladin. I demand my Final Fantasy 4 lore. Fight me Yoshi-P. The Red Mage LB3 should have been called W. Meteo.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:55
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None of my friends who pine for classic WoW ever talk about the game, they miss their guild, the people, ect.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:09
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The Gate posted:I have some friends that were super excited about the classic wow server that went up. With some more modern changes like an improved economy and I think some balance work done so Paladin wasn't just a buffbot, etc. I told them they had serious rose tinted glasses on, that if classic wow dropped today it would be regarded as an awful dumpster fire of design, but they ignored me. I would be tempted to play old wow up to like, level 30 or so, definitely not past whenever you hit Stranglethorn (the jungle zone) because I actually enjoyed getting chased by trains of fire mages and drowning in underwater quests and trying to solo those outdoor areas with the super difficult elite guys, and that stuff has mostly moved from MMOs to half-finished survival games now It would be intolerable beyond that since the zone design turned into really tedious grinding and there was a lot of other bullshit like having to pay a hojillion gold to get a mount or change your class spec or looking like a stupid clown unless you were an elite raid lord. So I guess my theory is that many people who want to play old wow again forgot what the game was like after the newbie areas.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:09
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Fortuitous Bumble posted:So I guess my theory is that many people who want to play old wow again forgot what the game was like after the newbie areas. They remember the good times they had and gloss over the bad because they're nostalgic about it. I had a lot of fun playing vanilla WoW. I would not play it again beyond a run around remembering how lovely it could get.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:12
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Gumball Gumption posted:None of my friends who pine for classic WoW ever talk about the game, they miss their guild, the people, ect. It's like certain people (myself included) pining for the old days of fun mid-rate RO private servers. The game was lovely, but the community was fun. (Also it was my first proper MMO, first guild, etc, etc.)
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Jun 28, 2017 22:15
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SettingSun posted:Classic WoW, much like pre-ARR FFXIV is a wild ride to read about and really makes me question how much people really want things like official classic servers and such. classic wow is nothing like pre-aar ffxiv. I'd play vanilla wow if i could have full t3 and go do wsg or ab. And also raid naxx with 40 competent people. Holyshoot fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 22:20
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Wacky Delly posted:They remember the good times they had and gloss over the bad because they're nostalgic about it. I had a lot of fun playing vanilla WoW. I would not play it again beyond a run around remembering how lovely it could get. My favorite part of Vanilla WoW is, for a time if a Paladin with 1 point in Improved Judgement used Judgement of Wisdom rank 3 they were instantly mounted on a Black War Kodo, because one of the spell pointers was misplaced. Another time, Grimoire of Sacrifice re-applied itself whenever you re-zoned. So Warlocks were soloing end-game content by hopping in and out of the entrance enough times that you were doing exponential amounts of damage.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:23
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Holyshoot posted:classic wow is nothing like pre-aar ffxiv. It is insofar as no sane person would want to play it but the stories surrounding it make for a nice read.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:23
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Being able to share kills is the biggest drat improvement to mmo design since its inception. I spent 6 hours trying to do a quest in the second Tauren area with 4 friends and a ton of random players. Also I like that people are trying to be more realistic with blue mage expectations in here but you also gotta remember that they're gonna want to future-proof the job by not tying specific abilities to specific quests so that they can move quest reward skills around and plan for possibly combining skills later on and stuff. For that reason, I feel like Blu could be more of a hunt-themed class. Like, they could flesh out the storylines behind specific famous hunt monsters and have you face them in instances and stuff. They probably won't tie specific monsters to specific abilities except in ability flavor text.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:24
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Cythereal posted:And class quests have come back in the newest expansion. No abilities tied to them, thankfully, but there are still some very questionable design choices. Alliance death knights, for example, have to go into Horde starting zones three separate times - and twice to the front gate of Horde capitals. Where's Raandyy when you need him
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Jun 28, 2017 22:25
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Jinh posted:Also I like that people are trying to be more realistic with blue mage expectations in here but you also gotta remember that they're gonna want to future-proof the job by not tying specific abilities to specific quests so that they can move quest reward skills around and plan for possibly combining skills later on and stuff. There's at least a few abilities in the game that are tied to the quests that grant them lorewise already. Dreadwyrm Trance, off the top of my head. Maybe others.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:27
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cheetah7071 posted:There's at least a few abilities in the game that are tied to the quests that grant them lorewise already. Dreadwyrm Trance, off the top of my head. Maybe others. For a simple example, at the conclusion of the conjurer quest where you're sent out to learn about water magic and borrowing the power of elemental water, you learn your first water spell (fluid aura).
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Jun 28, 2017 22:28
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Basically the way I expect BLU quests to go is that the filler quests will have objectives like "kill 3 morbols" and then you learn bad breath at the end. The involved quests will have solo instances against behemoth or something and then you learn meteor, or w/e.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:30
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I think I'm softening a bit on my criticisms of Red Mage. Ultimately they're still not as interesting or dynamic a caster as Black Mage, but that's a really high bar, and there are plenty of reasons to prefer playing Red Mage to Black Mage (utility, mobility, maybe you just like swords). My main criticisms before were that the spells are too samey (Veraero and Verthunder are identical except for the mana they build, as are Verstone and Verfire) and the melee combo needs something to make it more dynamic so it isn't just the same three buttons in the same order every time you do it. And here's the thing: I still think that. I think the job would be a lot more interesting if Veraero and Verthunder had something to differentiate them, and so did Verstone/Verfire and Verholy/Verflare. And if there was some way to situationally vary your melee combo, that would be really cool, too. But, well, two things: 1. Functionally, what's really the difference between "I need to cast Veraero right now because I need more white mana" and "I need to use Straight Shot next to refresh by Straight Shot buff?" Because that buff is all that differentiates Straight Shot from Heavy Shot (well, that, and its very slightly lower potency). Meanwhile, Heavy Shot has a proc attached to it, but that's true for like every goddamn Red Mage spell. You're still deciding which ability to use next not because of its unique effect on the enemy, or even its efficiency as an attack, but because you need more of something (a type of mana or a self-buff) or because you have a proc. I think Samurai deserves special mention here, though, because its combos are designed such that if you do the right combos to build up your core resource, you're also refreshing your self-buffs, and that feels really smooth. 2. The job still has a great rhythm to it. While its individual spells and attacks aren't necessarily that interesting, Dualcast makes the job feel really unique overall, with your melee combo providing an occasional exclamation point. Yeah, it's still one of the easiest DPS jobs--even if you gently caress up, you're never going to catastrophically gently caress up to the point of truly cratering your DPS, and recovering from something like unbalancing your mana isn't nearly as bad as, say, recovering from accidentally overheating without Barrel Stabilizer/Flamethrower available as a Machinist. But that's okay, because doing it right still feels really good. Anyway I mostly wanted to post this because I spent so long a couple days ago yammering on about how Red Mage is boring and bad. It really isn't--I just needed to look at it from a different perspective. I think there are definitely ways it could be more interesting (maybe the best one would be another melee skill that can take the place of Zwerchhau in a combo and fills a different role, like a debuff or something), and is one of the jobs that could maybe most benefit from some of the PvP actions' features (like Impact replacing Jolt II when you have a proc, or Verholy/Verflare replacing Verstone/Verfire just after you do Enchanted Redoublement, basically just keybind-saving stuff) but it definitely does things no other job does and feels very, very good to play, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Harrow fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 22:31
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I know this will never happen but I hope the next expansion has you fall through an interdimensional rift and end up in a different setting like Midgar or something like that. Tired of all the 'tis and milords and I'd kill to see a setting more like the techno-fantasy FFs.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:38
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Terrific Accident posted:I know this will never happen but I hope the next expansion has you fall through an interdimensional rift and end up in a different setting like Midgar or something like that. Tired of all the 'tis and milords and I'd kill to see a setting more like the techno-fantasy FFs. Eventually we're going to go to Garlemald and they'll probably be conveniently like a mix of Vector and Midgar because FFXIV runs off references.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:43
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Cythereal posted:For a simple example, at the conclusion of the conjurer quest where you're sent out to learn about water magic and borrowing the power of elemental water, you learn your first water spell (fluid aura). And then they make fun of lore-based skill learning in the dad joke-est way when your AST learns Gravity.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:53
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Cythereal posted:The absence of a faction divide is something I didn't realize how much I'd appreciate until I realized it wasn't a thing in this game. That's something I was trying to explain to my wife about storytelling in MMOs. She's never played any other MMO before FFXIV so she has no context for how any other game does story. It allowed me to take a look back at my years in WoW and be fascinated by how we were able to put together any story for that game. World of Warcraft, by its very nature (and this is beside the fact that WoW has really bad writers), cannot tell a "good" and cohesive story due to the faction divide. You can't say "The Lich King was killed by the Horde" or "The Lich King was killed by the Alliance" it has to be "The Lich King was killed by this vague group of adventurers. The faction divide means there can never be any true WoW canon. You can talk about the villains but you can never talk about the heroes. Hence why Green Jesus was the central character for so long. You can talk about him. You can't talk about the player character in the way FFXIV can with the Warrior of Light.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:58
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I figure next expansion we're going to the moon and getting a lot of FFIV stuff.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:00
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Mordiceius posted:That's something I was trying to explain to my wife about storytelling in MMOs. She's never played any other MMO before FFXIV so she has no context for how any other game does story. It allowed me to take a look back at my years in WoW and be fascinated by how we were able to put together any story for that game. Except the problem with Thrall is that he wasn't your character, he was Metzen's. The latest expansion has him getting humbled in a big way due tot he backlash over Cataclysm, Mists, and Warlords of Draenor, and he hasn't been seen since. Legion has been far better about portraying your character and his friends as the Hero, with the main NPC, Khadgar, providing powerful, if highly specialized, magical backup. And yes, they have several NPCs in game talking about how the faction divide is stupid but they have to keep it up for PVP servers I guess.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:04
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Leofish posted:I honestly think it's just a pining for days gone by. Vanilla WoW had a lot of problems but it was better than anything that was available at the time and it created this community that I think people miss the most. A lot of people were also teenagers or early into college when it came out over a decade ago and had the free time to put up with the stuff the game made you do, like be mountless until level 40, or go on extensive, cross-continental quests. It was unlike anything I had ever played in my life up to that point, so it was really exciting, and I made some friends in the game that were fun to do content with, but I can see now why the design choices then would never work in today's market.  This guy gets it. When I think to my days of raiding in Vanilla WoW, I'm rarely thinking of the actual content. I'm thinking back to my guild and the crazy people in it. All of my WoW stories involve amazing or hilarious stories of interactions with guildmates. I remember when we were working on Razorgore and one of the most quiet people in the guild who never spoke up, finally spoke on Teamspeak before one of the attempts and gave like a five minute "pre-big game" pep talk. I remember when one of the shaman got super pissy because his task became "Heal the Hunter's bear" on Prophet Skeram because we learned that when the boss split to three, hunter pets would always target the true version. I remember doing drunk Arathi Basin nights where people would get so wasted they would wake up passed out next to their computer chair. I'm RL friends with a decent number of people I met in WoW. Vanilla WoW to me was the connections I made. Because it sure as hell wasn't all the loving time I spent grinding fire resist gear for Ragnaros or nature resist gear for Huhuran. It wasn't farming felwood and blasted lands buffs. Vanilla WoW, looking back, was a loving tortuous grind machine. But it was the people we were with that made it fun. MMO's, I don't think, can be that anymore. Due to the more casual nature of the games, but also due to the way the world and the internet and gaming has changed. In 2005, sure the internet was everywhere, but online gaming was still fairly niche. People didn't think of the internet and online gaming as they do today. It's a different world. The past is dead and gone and will never be recaptured.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:07
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Kurieg posted:And yes, they have several NPCs in game talking about how the faction divide is stupid but they have to keep it up for PVP servers I guess. It's also something the developers have talked about : they feel they can't eliminate the faction divide without making one faction or the other "win," so they're not doing it. And then Cataclysm reignited the faction divide and the WoW story has continued to put hot-headed, bloodthirsty assholes in charge of both factions' military forces. As for Green Jesus, Illidan has replaced him this expansion as the dude who the story revolves around. It's all a bit of a shame, because WoW does have occasional good moments of storytelling. This most recent expansion even added overt queer relationships to the game for the first time outside certain extremely obscure references and wink-wink-nudge-nudge moments before. One thing from WoW I kinda wish FF14 had, though, was a drunken master class. It's a fun archetype in WoW and shows up with some frequency in my experience with wuxia stuff.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:10
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Kurieg posted:Except the problem with Thrall is that he wasn't your character, he was Metzen's. That's my point though. Due to the nature of the faction divide, it was always seen as impossible to make the player character the main character due to not wanting to show favoritism to a faction or give either faction actual credit for villains dying. Making Metzen's children the main characters sidestepped that problem. But it made so many players angry to be Thrall's plucky little sidekick. WoW isn't the only game to have that issue. loving Guild Wars 2 (grr goddamnit GW2) had that same issue with Tree Jesus and they don't even have a loving faction divide. Cythereal posted:It's also something the developers have talked about : they feel they can't eliminate the faction divide without making one faction or the other "win," so they're not doing it. And then Cataclysm reignited the faction divide and the WoW story has continued to put hot-headed, bloodthirsty assholes in charge of both factions' military forces. And unfortunately, moments of good storytelling is all it will ever be able to have since it can't, by the very nature of the game, tell a longer, cohesive story.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:10
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Mordiceius posted:That's my point though. Due to the nature of the faction divide, it was always seen as impossible to make the player character the main character due to not wanting to show favoritism to a faction or give either faction actual credit for villains dying. Making Metzen's children the main characters sidestepped that problem. But it made so many players angry to be Thrall's plucky little sidekick. loving Trahearne. Then they decided not only to kill him off in Heart of Thorns, but also to make the player do the killing, because gently caress Tree Jesus. And now you can get his sword too.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:14
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Kurieg posted:Except the problem with Thrall is that he wasn't your character, he was Metzen's. The latest expansion has him getting humbled in a big way due tot he backlash over Cataclysm, Mists, and Warlords of Draenor, and he hasn't been seen since. The justifications for the pvp are really tired. Every expansion has them making a truce, but then something going wrong. Legion going with "the classes all decided to form their own mini-factions with the player as the leader, and ignore the horde/alliance" is cool. But it's still dumb that it was instigated by a misunderstanding between the horde and alliance, and that even after that the alliance players gets roped in with the dumbass werewolf leader going rogue and disobeying the King's orders to not fight the Horde. Also some races no longer have reasons to be part of the factions, but then when this comes up something stupid happens to force them into staying. Because the story progressing logically would break the faction-based gameplay. Gruckles fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 23:17
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Harrow posted:loving Trahearne. I can't really ever allow myself to talk about GW2 because that game makes me [i[so loving angry[/i]. GW1 is one of my favorite games of all time, and just gently caress GW2.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:17
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Harrow posted:Then they decided not only to kill him off in Heart of Thorns, but also to make the player do the killing, because gently caress Tree Jesus. And now you can get his sword too. Funny thing about his sword: it's hyped up to be this massively powerful super magical sword, but sylvari players can and indeed are required to use it in one quest depending on their branching story choices. And it's godawful and borderline useless and makes the quest much harder than it should be because you're stuck with this piece of crap. I bypassed it by playing an engineer so whipped out the flamethrower instead.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:17
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Velthice posted:http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/263f9a10fe534e8c93e43d08fde73eaba1c52976 The only way this could get better is if it's still happening when Omega (savage) is released and it ends up costing some group a world first clear because the game kicked them all with a boss at 1% hp. Like, this is a bad idea for so many reason. The least of which being that it's going to make their login servers explode on a data center that suddenly has most/all of the now-booted players trying to log back in at the same time.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:25
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They did the first kick today and so far it has really helped the queue on Balmung. Bad idea... good?
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Jun 28, 2017 23:29
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delete balmung unironically, they're now making life miserable for every other server just by existing
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Jun 28, 2017 23:32
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Gruckles posted:The justifications for the pvp are really tired. Every expansion has them making a truce, but then something going wrong. Did you miss the part in Stormheim where Genn's fears are proven 100% correct? Or the fact that they deliberately framed Sylv in the worst possible light during the alliance cinematic and then made her the Warchief of the horde because "The Loa Say You Have A Destiny" even though she's arguably the most unambiguously evil person in the whole loving world who would sacrifice the souls of everyone just to avoid being consigned to the endless nothingness of an afterlife she's earned herself? Seriously the problem here isn't Genn's reaction, it's the fact that Blizz put Sylv in charge in the first loving place and not Lor'themar or Baine instead of the person who personally killed the prince of one of the Alliance's sovereign nations. One of the chief reasons I want to get rid of the faction divide is so that they can stop having the Horde making terminally idiotic decisions so that there's a villain in charge while the actual citizens remain mostly blameless.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:35
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Reiterpallasch posted:making life miserable Its kind of annoying but come on.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:37
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SettingSun posted:Classic WoW, much like pre-ARR FFXIV is a wild ride to read about and really makes me question how much people really want things like official classic servers and such. I think WoW doing Molten Core for the 10th anniversary was hilarious, everyone was running it and everyone hated what a loving unfun slog it was. It actually shut up a few of the "WELL IT WAS BETTER BACK THEN" folks in my guild.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:54
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What are the focuses of the 3 NA FCs? I've been in PBC whenever I have a sub going and was just wondering if I should just remain there.
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