|
AP posted:If the loan gets them to Citizen Con, the sale then, plus November & Christmas sales would get them to maybe March-June. Cutting head count would obviously help the most to extend beyond that, if they drastically cut heads they could even get another year or two, but the backer reaction to shutting a studio or two would be very unpredictable for their future income. I can predict it very accurately. Refunds go up, pledges go down. Cig goes into a death spiral. Everyone not laid off runs to the escape pods of the spaceship and Star Citizen becomes a smoking crater on the face of the gaming world. It'll happen quick, when the facade cracks and backer faith is shaken to its core, likely when 3.0 hits/shits. The bank loan all but guarantees a quick death because once those funds dry up and the coffers are drained from refunds, the bank swoops in and puts the kibosh on everything. No prolonged end, just a sudden padlock and an 8 page letter blaming the haters.
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 15:01 |
|
|
ManofManyAliases posted:Sorry to inform you but that's a pretty standard agreement for a bank like Coutts. You can often collateralize more for securing a lower rate. The one thing I love about Star Citizen is that everybody is an expert. Expert game developers. Expert lawyers. Expert bankers. People so sure of themselves they can outright say "No. this ISN'T how it's done. It's like THIS." Here's what I know: They put their entire company up as collateral, on the line to lose everything. Why would anybody, especially a company like CIG that should have more money than most basic indie start ups with multiple shell companies and international offices spread all over the globe, do this? It's not rocket science. You need money for something now that you don't want to wait until later to save up for to have. So that's the loan. They want something they can't afford now. The collateral is everything. Why do this? Why do this if you're well off and will be making the money anyway soon. Now I'm not super business savvy, and I know CIG isn't a business that has "seasonal" income where one quarter is hugely low but made up in the next quarter, or whatever. My opinion is you put everything in because you are going to lose it anyway. So... based on that, why isn't CIG downsizing yet? If I had to venture a guess, I'd guess pure arrogance. Chris Roberts dipped his toe in the pool of success, and it will be a cold day in hell before he pulls it out again. He'd rather lose it instantly rather than all than look like he failed slowly. Also when Chris Roberts loses everything, he's not really legally bound to give anybody anything. It's now up to the bank. Unfortunately the bank doesn't care that backers donated money to dreams, so it ends there. I may be incorrect about the legal avenue, but it feels like CIGs problems are able to neatly slide off of the Roberts and into an uncaring financial institution. Is this the escape plan? No idea! What about the shell companies? No idea! Why did Erin cash out like a good Martha Stewart with insider information? No idea! That's why I have all you professional bankers to help me understand these things. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:The one thing I love about Star Citizen is that everybody is an expert. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
MilesK posted:When you have to resort to crowdfunding because you've famously failed to run a video game company, I think you should try to work within your $153 million budget and not take out loans. This is just holding back the dream. Imagine how fast it is being made now. It's probably so fast will will release yesterday!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
this video has aged well  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSrXsbRh6k8  
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
Chalks posted:
The rebate is essentially 20% of their qualifying expenditure. We know it is £3.5m per the accounts at the year end 31 December 2016. Ortwin says it is paid in the fall so if the rebate were paid on 31 October, it would range 10-22 months at 292k per month. That would mean the rebate would range from ~£2.9m on 1 November and rise to ~£6.4m on 30 October, each year with the current level of qualifying expenditure. Edit: Audit review shrach fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
Ticket sales from Wing Commander will totally pay for the rest of Freelancer guys. It's unthinkable that this epic will bomb!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Ticket sales from Wing Commander will totally pay for the rest of Freelancer guys. It's unthinkable that this epic will bomb! Wing Commander the movie has produced spaceships as Iconic as anything in StarWars. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Wing Commander the movie has produced spaceships as Iconic as anything in StarWars. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:37
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
while we are dreaming up complete fantasies the court room is going to have a sick water slide and the jury is going to be all hot ladies in bikinis and guess what The judge is too. Your lawyer basically high fives you and you get to ride out of the court room on a unicorn to a crowd of 10,000 that will applaud the ruling and shower you with gold coins. either that or cymelion is a loving idiot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Wing Commander the movie has produced spaceships as Iconic as anything in StarWars. Wait a minute, I know I've seen something eerily similar to this... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Wing Commander the movie has produced spaceships as Iconic as anything in StarWars. I'm the tiny loving ladder because it's by Chris Roberts of course there's a ladder
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
Yeah, because making money from streaming the game, while parroting bullshit designed to keep backers on your side, thus funding your stream, is somehow different. OK. https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/880215282786209802 D_Smart fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Eh, it's not that complicated. CIG owes the bank money and have offered collateral, but since the assets are not secured as fixed charge, CIG-UK would be free to sell or buy stuff. The bankers are not morons and to prevent any shenanigans(like CIG-UK transferring all IP rights to someone else), they are in control of the assets and give CIG-UK the right to continue working, so if CIG-UK wants to buy/sell some of their stuff then they have to ask permission from the bank first. Wrong. It's a both a fixed and a floating charge
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
Dark Off posted:this video has aged well Moved to 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
D_Smart posted:Yeah, because making money from streaming the game, while parroting bullshit designed to keep backers on your side, thus funding your stream, is somehow different. Can any of those funding his Patreon be tied to CIG in any way and if they could, would that need to be disclosed? Like, if I talk about Pepsi products on my lovely web show and Pepsi kicks in 500 dollars a month to my Patreon, am I being sponsored by Pepsi? Unofficially or officially?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
ManofManyAliases posted:The bank could give a poo poo whether the game/whatever is finished or not. False. They won't have secured all those rights. Get a grip. And read the whole thing again quote:All they care about is CIG's opportunity and ability to pay back the debenture; it's about credit-worthiness. True quote:CIG must have shown the bank that they are capable of doing so. True
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
hot balls man no homo posted:Let's see, it says here you haven't made a game in 15 years, you were fired from the last game publisher for overspending and under-delivering while being 3 years behind schedule, you bankrupted Ascendant pictures, you were responsible for the war crime known as "Wing Commander the Movie", you got sued by Kevin Costner for 8 million dollars and lost, your current game is years behind schedule, your only funding comes from presales of in game assets which can be refunded at any point prior to delivery of said game, said game also has no release date but is estimated to be 3 years away, you have an estimated overhead cost of 3 million dollars per month, your funding from presales is trending downward, your lawyer was involved in questionable buisness practices with another company that went bankrupt, your EP in the UK is your brother and your VP is your pornstar wife. ouch. the fidelity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:15
|
|
|
AP posted:If the loan gets them to Citizen Con, the sale then, plus November & Christmas sales would get them to maybe March-June. Cutting head count would obviously help the most to extend beyond that, if they drastically cut heads they could even get another year or two, but the backer reaction to shutting a studio or two would be very unpredictable for their future income. And therein lies the rub. Even if they make the same amount of money as last year, they are still going to have the same amount of bills/expenses. Now they have a loan payment on top of it. The only way around this? Increase revenue. Or layoffs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:The one thing I love about Star Citizen is that everybody is an expert.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
hot balls man no homo posted:Can any of those funding his Patreon be tied to CIG in any way and if they could, would that need to be disclosed? Like, if I talk about Pepsi products on my lovely web show and Pepsi kicks in 500 dollars a month to my Patreon, am I being sponsored by Pepsi? Unofficially or officially? As per FTC rules, you only have to disclose it if you are shilling Pepsi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:19
|
|
|
Y'all are reading way too much into this loan thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
cool new Polack jokes posted:Yeah, soap on a rope Cultists would never interfere with the inevitable consequence of scammacy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
hot balls man no homo posted:Let's see, it says here you haven't made a game in 15 years, you were fired from the last game publisher for overspending and under-delivering while being 3 years behind schedule, you bankrupted Ascendant pictures, you were responsible for the war crime known as "Wing Commander the Movie", you got sued by Kevin Costner for 8 million dollars and lost, your current game is years behind schedule, your only funding comes from presales of in game assets which can be refunded at any point prior to delivery of said game, said game also has no release date but is estimated to be 3 years away, you have an estimated overhead cost of 3 million dollars per month, your funding from presales is trending downward, your lawyer was involved in questionable buisness practices with another company that went bankrupt, your EP in the UK is your brother and your VP is your pornstar wife. whoa! harsh! MODS!!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
The Titanic posted:why isn't CIG downsizing yet? It's a confidence scam and the loan was never supposed to be seen which is why Ortwin had to rush out on a Sunday night to try and calm things down. CIG is absolutely out of money and while idiots are giving them more it's not enough. Even if the loan is like 3 million that would get them past gamescom if they're short 1-2 million per month. What they can't afford is a hard shock to backer faith that stops funding or makes ongoing operations impossible. Firing someone here or there is easy to hide, mass layoffs with so much work clearly needed would be basically impossible to explain, funding would die and the company with it. 3.0 is the ghost of Christmas past reminding everyone the game still sucks, nothing happened for content or playability in 2016, and fun is 6+ months late. They're already cutting back on important things that were supposed to be done and trying to fill those gaps with more loving ships but it won't be enough. If 3.0 is an absolute turd, and seeing this is CIG that's basically a guarantee, then they are hosed. If they can look slick enough at gamescom that will probably buy them a bump to CitCon but no way it's as big as last year and if they poo poo the bed at CitCon again they don't make it to 2018. Right now they are on a clock to make 3.0 the least poo poo it can be and hope for the best while scrambling to get something they can "demo" at gamescom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
Exinos posted:It's a confidence scam and the loan was never supposed to be seen which is why Ortwin had to rush out on a Sunday night to try and calm things down. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
Exinos posted:It's a confidence scam and the loan was never supposed to be seen which is why Ortwin had to rush out on a Sunday night to try and calm things down. I love the fact that it probably was never meant to be seen, but Derek and us bunch of cackling hyenas are parkouring around their china shop in clown outfits and wrecking all their plans.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:04
|
|
|
It would be too much of a shitshow for CIG to sue Derek, because to a reasonable judge or any other kind of person, it would look like Derek is actually right. In order for Derek to not be right, they would have to be about 3 years ahead of where they actually are right now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:05
|
|
spacetoaster posted:Oh my! This just out! Buy stuff!! MoMA sighted 0:24.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
Great to see some more hot space court action.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:18
|
|
C-Bangin' it 
|
I'm going to LOL so hard when CIG goes belly up in 6 months and Coutts sells everything associated with the game to EA for a few thousand dollars. L O L
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
peter gabriel posted:I'm the tiny loving ladder because it's by Chris Roberts of course there's a ladder
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
Exinos posted:It's a confidence scam and the loan was never supposed to be seen which is why Ortwin had to rush out on a Sunday night to try and calm things down. It was amazing how this thread is directing the narrative.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:32
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I'm going to LOL so hard when CIG goes belly up in 6 months and Coutts sells everything associated with the game to EA for a few thousand dollars. Derek, please pick the assets up. It'll make LOD all the much better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:32
|
|
|
no_recall posted:Derek, please pick the assets up. It'll make LOD all the much better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
Dark Off posted:this video has aged well  
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
no_recall posted:Derek, please pick the assets up. It'll make LOD all the much better. Hey, the bank is going to need a game developer with an in-depth knowledge of Star Citizen as a whole to sift through the rubble. I wonder where they can find one of those?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:45
|
|
|
hot balls man no homo posted:Hey, the bank is going to need a game developer with an in-depth knowledge of Star Citizen as a whole to sift through the rubble. I wonder where they can find one of those? Bank won't care who they sell it to. They just care about the cash up front.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 15:01 |
|
|
What's with Chris Roberts and ladders?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 02:56
|
|