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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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TinTower posted:I'm failing to see how this is an argument against the single market. You fail to see lots of things which is why you stayed in a party led by a man that's happy to see you go to hell.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:02
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Gort posted:Oh, gently caress that then. Relying on charity is an admission that the state has failed. Big Society innit
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Jun 29, 2017 15:04
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TinTower posted:Lexit is stupid even compared to other forms of Brexit. But anyway, so what? I'm a Labour voter who don't want any sort of Brexit, but what I want doesn't matter. I knew what Labour's manifesto said on Brexit when I voted for them. While I think leaving the EU is a lousy idea in this context, on the list of "things I give a poo poo about" it's an awful way down the list behind saving the NHS from being sold off to Tory donors, nationalisation of public transport, better support for the unemployed including an end to the Universal Benefits, increased taxes on the wealthy, increased minimum wage, increased public housing, better pay for public servants & all the other things in the Labour manifesto. And for most Labour voters, that'll be much the same. If it wasn't the case, the big Remain party would have done slightly better than losing deposits in 375 seats it stood in, worse than UKIP. And even worse than they did in 2015 somehow. When they were rightfully punished for propping up a disastrously bad government & its shameful economic policies. Wonder how long the Lib Dems can go losing just shy of £200k of deposits every election. Sarah Bellum posted:The government's proposal, which is to funnel money into charities which will then decide how it is dispersed, is piss-poor and still leaves NI taxpayers as second class citizens in the National Health Service. It is a shameful alternative to full rights. Wait, that's really the compromise? loving nora, that's appalling. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 15:04
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:You fail to see lots of things which is why you stayed in a party led by a man that's happy to see you go to hell. Is Tintower actually a Liberal Democrat party member? I thought they just voted that way
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Jun 29, 2017 15:04
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jBrereton posted:Remember when your decision led to a DUP government lol Pretty sure it's the voters of Norn Iron that did that, but as JFF says it's working out pretty nicely. We even found a magic money tree!
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Jun 29, 2017 15:05
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Gort posted:Is Tintower actually a Liberal Democrat party member? I thought they just voted that way She went to conference so probably
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Jun 29, 2017 15:05
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Gort posted:Is Tintower actually a Liberal Democrat party member? I thought they just voted that way She's been part of the national apparatus lol.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:06
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Red Oktober posted:For extra fun, have a read about Roberto Calvi, God's Banker. quote:Propaganda Due (Italian pronunciation: [propaˈɡanda ˈduːe]; P2) was a Masonic lodge founded in 1945 that, by the time its Masonic charter was withdrawn in 1976, had transformed into a clandestine, pseudo-Masonic, ultraright[1][2][3] organization operating in contravention of Article 18 of the Constitution of Italy that banned secret associations. In its latter period, during which the lodge was headed by Licio Gelli, P2 was implicated in numerous Italian crimes and mysteries, including the collapse of the Vatican-affiliated Banco Ambrosiano, the murders of journalist Mino Pecorelli and banker Roberto Calvi, and corruption cases within the nationwide bribe scandal Tangentopoli. P2 came to light through the investigations into the collapse of Michele Sindona's financial empire.[4]
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Jun 29, 2017 15:06
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JFairfax posted:you can't stay in the single market and have brexit. Yeah you can.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:11
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communism bitch posted:wtf lol Yeah, I remember reading about them, their links to the Mafia, the way they tried to cover up a bombing & mislead the investigation in Bologna by neo-fascists that killed over 80 people, the number of Generals & Admirals whose names came up, and somehow the fact that Silvio Berlusconi still had a career in politics. Italy sure is something.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:13
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forkboy84 posted:But anyway, so what? I'm a Labour voter who don't want any sort of Brexit, but what I want doesn't matter. I knew what Labour's manifesto said on Brexit when I voted for them. While I think leaving the EU is a lousy idea in this context, on the list of "things I give a poo poo about" it's an awful way down the list behind saving the NHS from being sold off to Tory donors, nationalisation of public transport, better support for the unemployed including an end to the Universal Benefits, increased taxes on the wealthy, increased minimum wage, increased public housing, better pay for public servants & all the other things in the Labour manifesto. Serious question: do you honestly think a Labour government could do all that while simultaneously pursuing a Hard Brexit? Hard Brexit is going to make 2008 look like a loving tea party.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:17
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Pissflaps posted:Yeah you can.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:26
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R. Mute posted:*stern continental frown* The sticking point for the EU is attempts to retain single market membership without freedom of movement.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:29
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feedmegin posted:Argh just made an application to rent a house; got told it was 520 quid application fee; replied with email sayin 'loving hell 520 quid' to the letting agent not my wife keep us posted on the negotiations
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Jun 29, 2017 15:29
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TinTower posted:Serious question: do you honestly think a Labour government could do all that while simultaneously pursuing a Hard Brexit? Good thing Labour isn't pushing for a hard brexit then I guess. If you're asking why they don't push for membership of the single market it's because saying that outright ties your hand in negotiations. Better to say you'd want "the greatest possible access" to it - up to and including remaining part of it - rather than saying "OH GOD WE MUST STAY IN IT" and going into negotiations where they can just say "lol dance for us or no single market"
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Jun 29, 2017 15:30
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Apparently people ITT didn't get the memo: Brexit means Breakfast!
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Jun 29, 2017 15:30
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Tesseraction posted:Good thing Labour isn't pushing for a hard brexit then I guess. This is the same justification the Tories use when insisting no deal is better than a bad deal.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:32
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Tesseraction posted:Good thing Labour isn't pushing for a hard brexit then I guess. I'm really not convinced by this line of reasoning though, its the line of reasoning I've heard my (one) Tory friend use for why May's insane no deal strategy is actually clever. We're not going to trick the EU into thinking we have the upper hand, its blatantly loving obvious to everyone apart from about 3 Tory MPs that Brexit is going to gently caress us and we need all the concessions we can get.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:33
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TinTower posted:Serious question: do you honestly think a Labour government could do all that while simultaneously pursuing a Hard Brexit? Yes. When exactly are governments meant to spend if not during a recession/depression? I have no delusions that it won't be bad. But considering the alternative is the thumb people feeling they've been ignored & going full fash in response? We'll muddle through. I dunno, this sounds a lot like "oh, maybe we could do nationalised health care but immediately after a war which bankrupted the country just isn't the right time to do it". Except it was exactly the right time. Serious question back. Do you think the sort of people who voted for Brexit out of ignorance, disinformation, lack of knowledge, etc will see & understand the nuance between the UK staying in the EU as it is & the UK leaving the EU but staying in the single market with all of the same "problems" as they would see it, while also losing the ability to have a say in the laws governing them?
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Jun 29, 2017 15:34
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TinTower posted:Hard Brexit is going to make 2008 look like a loving tea party. Stopp turning me on.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:34
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Tesseraction posted:Good thing Labour isn't pushing for a hard brexit then I guess. They're not supporting the Single Market amendment to the Queen's Speech. The Shadow Chancellor, Shadow Foreign Secretary, and Shadow Brexit Secretary have been on record recently saying that they prioritise controls on immigration over Single Market membership. The Labour manifesto even said that there will be no freedom of movement once we leave the EU. Keir Starmer won't be spending the negotiations singing "Two World Wars and One World Cup" at Barnier, but Labour still want a Hard Brexit. forkboy84 posted:Yes. When exactly are governments meant to spend if not during a recession/depression? I have no delusions that it won't be bad. But considering the alternative is the thumb people feeling they've been ignored & going full fash in response? We'll muddle through. I dunno, this sounds a lot like "oh, maybe we could do nationalised health care but immediately after a war which bankrupted the country just isn't the right time to do it". Except it was exactly the right time. I honestly believe that the Brexit recession will be too deep to be able to spend our way out of. The practicalities of modern governance would make it very hard even with the best political will in the world. That's not even starting to deal with the amount of work needed to completely replace the corpus of EU law with our law. To your question: no. But that's a failure of our political class going back to at least Maastricht, perhaps even further back. It's why the referendum was a loving stupid idea in the first place. TinTower fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 15:35
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Sure, if your definition of hard brexit is "brexit"
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Jun 29, 2017 15:39
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I reckon instead of a single market we should have multiple markets, and then the competition between markets will drive down prices and spur innovation.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:41
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Serene Dragon posted:Brutal. I really don't know why May wants to stay on as PM, she's getting battered at every turn. I'm 100% confident that any hope of a post-PM career is being held over her head to keep her in place. As brutal a beating tories might be getting, the idea of a communist PM negotiating a brexit and nationalizing services must terrify the nobles, the investors, the foreign princes, and EU itself. No matter how damaging being in power right now may be, it's worth staying long enough for EU to fuckbarrel Britain and keep services privatized. I mean, if she actually cared about being PM hiding for the entirety of her term is the worst possible choice of action. It smells more of "I really, really dont want this".
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Jun 29, 2017 15:43
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UK politicians are incredibly incompetent amateurs by-and-large, the hardest part of brexit is going to be having to figure out how you actually run the place without the EU basically doing it for us while MPs howl at eachother like orangutans and sell bits of the state to their mates, which is how its been run for the last few decades. drat, aren't you supposed to get less left wing with age? I feel like I've been steadily gaining leftwards momentum since I was about 11 and now I'm at turbo-lenin. Gotta watch out cause horseshoe theory suggests ill go too far and turn into a nazi. Neurolimal posted:I'm 100% confident that any hope of a post-PM career is being held over her head to keep her in place. As brutal a beating tories might be getting, the idea of a communist PM negotiating a brexit and nationalizing services must terrify the nobles, the investors, the foreign princes, and EU itself. No matter how damaging being in power right now may be, it's worth staying long enough for EU to fuckbarrel Britain and keep services privatized. I think presidential PMs are a recently new convention, it'll be interesting if May's absentee premiership will change this back.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:47
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Pissflaps posted:The sticking point for the EU is attempts to retain single market membership without freedom of movement. yeah fine, but that's basically not doing a brexit then
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Jun 29, 2017 15:52
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Well May is trying this whole new thing of not having a communications director, and honestly it's not been working out for her that well.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:52
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Mu. posted:I reckon instead of a single market we should have multiple markets, and then the competition between markets will drive down prices and spur innovation. okay. now we're getting somewhere.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:53
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communism bitch posted:wtf lol It's a fascinating story that, I can highly recommend God's Bankers if you're interested in the Vatican and finance. It traces the Vatican bank through WWII and beyond. Most of it is loving mental, and they get away with poo poo no other bank can even touch. I think the Vatican Bank was even blacklisted for a while by most international financial institutions due to the amount of unaccounted/dark money flowing through it. Skinty McEdger posted:Well May is trying this whole new thing of not having a communications director, and honestly it's not been working out for her that well. Austerity is finally hitting No. 10 I see.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:53
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JFairfax posted:yeah fine, but that's basically not doing a brexit then 'Brexit means Brexit' is funny because Brexit can mean many things. Leaving the EU while retaining single market membership and free movement would be a form of Brexit - one that is typically described as a 'soft' Brexit, and a situation advocated by many Leave campaigners prior to the referendum. Insisting that Brexit requires leaving the single market is wrong.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:56
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Pissflaps posted:'Brexit means Brexit' is funny because Brexit can mean many things. yeah but you might as well not loving bother at that point. it's like divorcing your wife, paying lawyers but still living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed. okay you're divorced and probably got a large bill in the process you might as well have just stayed married.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:58
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also remember that Jimmy Savile got a papal Knighthood
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Jun 29, 2017 15:58
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Neurolimal posted:I'm 100% confident that any hope of a post-PM career is being held over her head to keep her in place. As brutal a beating tories might be getting, the idea of a communist PM negotiating a brexit and nationalizing services must terrify the nobles, the investors, the foreign princes, and EU itself. No matter how damaging being in power right now may be, it's worth staying long enough for EU to fuckbarrel Britain and keep services privatized. I, err, what. We like our Corbs but he isn't actually Lenin you know. Also, hard brexit would be the only way we could do really radical stuff like nationalising industries by fiat and seizing the property of the rich. The EU kind of frowns on that stuff, and the more so the closer your integration with them.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:01
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JFairfax posted:yeah but you might as well not loving bother at that point. Well, yes. Exactly. But it's still a Brexit and would be better than a hard Brexit.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:02
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JFairfax posted:yeah but you might as well not loving bother at that point. Which is exactly how it'd be seen, too. Though that might be better if we get to 22 months and do an "are you loving sure" referendum or something farcial to cap off the farce-train the entire brexit process has been. Honestly that's basically the issue; there's still too many morons who're sure that this is just some kind of growing pain. There's no point on taking any action for at least a few months because even at this point any decent argument is still being replied to with "BARMY BRUSSELS REMOANERS TALKING DOWN GRATE BRIAN" spectralent fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 16:02
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communism bitch posted:wtf lol It was a member of Propaganda Due that sold Exocets to Argentina.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:03
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JFairfax posted:also remember that Jimmy Savile got a papal Knighthood Probably a lot of idea exchange going on between them. Sick and twisted lot.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:07
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JFairfax posted:also remember that Jimmy Savile got a papal Knighthood And a regular UK knighthood in the same year
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Jun 29, 2017 16:09
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It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:15
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Private Speech posted:It's funny how much this thread moved towards a pro-brexit stance since the referendum. With my view of "even the libdem stance is wayy too Eurosceptic" (much as I understand the political realities of anti-immigration sentiment and Brexit happening no matter what) I feel pretty lonely here these days. I'm anti Brexit. It's a silly idea.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:15
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