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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
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| Labour |
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907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
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48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
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31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
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13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
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25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
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22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
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12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
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1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
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59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
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4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
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3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
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36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
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35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
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49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
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39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
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2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
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188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
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8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
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15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
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312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
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Coohoolin posted:I'm not saying he should be anti brexit, but he could at least talk about the importance of free travel and the good parts of the EU we're going to lose. He does do that, though, and he did it during the referendum campaign too. The thing is he also values democracy, considers the result of the referendum legitimate and isn't going to go against it at great electoral cost to his party.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:10
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Oh no Corbyn is playing politics, time to abandon him. You're all so loving scared of a left wing leader actually being able to win. Like some of you get off on the righteous indignation.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:11
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JC as Labour Leader is duty bound to carry out the will of the NEC, NPF and Conference. Labour policy isn't his decision, and despite disagreeing with it I think he's correct to put across his interpretation of it and not his own views. We know his views, he's had consistent and nuanced views stretching back decades that anyone can go and find. This is also why I think the rebel frontbenchers deserved their sacking. JC's amendment was an extract from the manifesto, as was Stella Creasy's. If you're on the frontbench and you think your profile-raising stunt is bigger than the will of the party as a whole, you can get to gently caress. That's a document that the party as a whole produced and if they're going to undermine it at such an important moment I'd happily see them all gently caress off to the Lib Dems where they belong. number one pta fan fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 01:13
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Coohoolin posted:I'm not saying he should be anti brexit, but he could at least talk about the importance of free travel and the good parts of the EU we're going to lose. We tried making that argument already and we lost. The thumb people care about two things, some mythical concept of sovereignty they don't understand and keeping foreigners out. So, again, a Brexit where we go into the EFTA is going to please so few people, will resurrect UKIP, and generally empower the far right because it's the easiest thing in the world to paint it as "liberal metropolitan elites think they know better than you and that gives them the right to ignore the referendum and the cries of the people." This will have very bad consequences. Anyway. Back to Grenfell, something I actually care about. https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/880578560347574272 Pretty damning and I'm unsure how the pricks can continue hiding from the fact their policies and actions had an impact on this tragedy.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:20
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number one pta fan posted:This is also why I think the rebel frontbenchers deserved their sacking. JC's amendment was an extract from the manifesto, as was Stella Creasy's. If you're on the frontbench and you think your profile-raising stunt is bigger than the will of the party as a whole, you can get to gently caress. That's a document that the party as a whole produced and if they're going to undermine it at such an important moment I'd happily see them all gently caress off to the Lib Dems where they belong. It's also an example of why the people who are bad at politics aren't Corbyn and the leadership team, they're the people opposing him. Today Labour forced a major concession out of the government and won a significant victory for women in Northern Ireland, but all you will see in the press is more talk of division and Brexit thanks to Chuka and his stupid loving amendment.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:20
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jabby posted:It's also an example of why the people who are bad at politics aren't Corbyn and the leadership team, they're the people opposing him. Today Labour forced a major concession out of the government and won a significant victory for women in Northern Ireland, but all you will see in the press is more talk of division and Brexit thanks to Chuka and his stupid loving amendment. this is good politics for Chuka since what he wants is for left-wing politics to appear non-functional to return copycat-blairism to power so it can continue doing nothing and losing to tories (but being Electable).
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Jun 30, 2017 01:23
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Oh god, the thread's being over-active again, did pissf- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRgTy_TPO_4&t=69s
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Jun 30, 2017 01:26
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jabby posted:It's also an example of why the people who are bad at politics aren't Corbyn and the leadership team, they're the people opposing him. Today Labour forced a major concession out of the government and won a significant victory for women in Northern Ireland, but all you will see in the press is more talk of division and Brexit thanks to Chuka and his stupid loving amendment. I thought Creasey withdrew her amendment?
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Jun 30, 2017 01:26
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Paint EFTA as "what the Leave campaign promised". Because, after all, the idea of leaving the Single Market was resolutely denied by every single Leave campaign spokesperson in every single Leave campaign.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:27
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spectralent posted:this is good politics for Chuka since what he wants is for left-wing politics to appear non-functional to return copycat-blairism to power so it can continue doing nothing and losing to tories (but being Electable). Making himself hated by the party membership isn't going to help with that, it's just going to strengthen calls for deselection.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:27
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OwlFancier posted:I thought Creasey withdrew her amendment? She did, but only because the government effectively conceded. In that regard it was an extremely effective political play and Labour deserve full credit. Chuka's amendment by comparison was never going to pass or even be seriously considered, and it highlighted divisions within Labour while making the Tories appear united. Although of course it fulfilled it's main purpose, which was to raise the profile of one Mr Umunna. The cynic in me thinks we are rapidly going to see Labour devolve back into infighting. The right of the party laid low during the election but they are now incredulous that they haven't been welcomed with open arms and handed the keys to power after being proven wrong about pretty much everything. That's going to turn into anger and they're going to lash out at the leadership again.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:33
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Oh dear me posted:Making himself hated by the party membership isn't going to help with that, it's just going to strengthen calls for deselection. Thus proving how out-of-touch the membership is now they've been infiltrated by militants! He wants the party to be owned by the proper people, not to accept the wind is changing and be less of a shithead.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:39
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Someone should table an amendment to launch Chuka Umunna's oviform head out of a cannon as part of the brexit process.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:42
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The worry is that he would enter a stable three egg system with Sajid Javid and Iain Duncan Smith in low earth orbit, enabling Paul Nuttall to shave and ascend to full egghood.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:51
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jabby posted:She did, but only because the government effectively conceded. In that regard it was an extremely effective political play and Labour deserve full credit. if they couldn't beat corbyn when he was completely isolated and it was assumed it was impossible he could win an election what makes them think they can do it now
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Jun 30, 2017 01:59
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He's an absolute loving no-mark and the idea that Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis, Owen Smith or Liz Kendall would appeal to anyone other than empty vessel politics shut-ins on Twitter or existing members of Compass has been one of the weirdest features of post-Miliband Labour.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:01
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Coohoolin posted:There is absolutely no mainstream left wing brexit narrative and I'm not happy to see Corbyn making symbolic capitulations to the racist thumbpeople Britain. Corbyn's whole thing is that being principled and doing the right thing worked regardless of "electability" shite, why does that stop being the case with Brexit? Because he's made it clear for quite a while that he's a euroskeptic.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:04
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Saint Isaias Boner posted:if they couldn't beat corbyn when he was completely isolated and it was assumed it was impossible he could win an election what makes them think they can do it now For people like Chuka it's unlikely to be about beating Corbyn, at least in the current climate, and more about remaining relevant. As a backbencher the only way to get constant press oxygen is to stir things up, propose controversial bills, disobey the whip and is generally act like a disruptive prick. If Corbyn goes down at some point then you're well placed for a leadership bid. If he doesn't you've laid the groundwork to quit politics and walk into a cushy job somewhere else. Believe me, the likes of Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Stephen Kinnock etc. can't handle being an ordinary constituency MP. So if they aren't going to be given ministerial roles they'll get attention any way they can.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:09
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jabby posted:As a backbencher the only way to get constant press oxygen is to stir things up, propose controversial bills, disobey the whip and is generally act like a disruptive prick. If Corbyn goes down at some point then you're well placed for a leadership bid. If he doesn't you've laid the groundwork to quit politics and walk into a cushy job somewhere else. Well done, you've described the entire modus operandi of the Socialist Campaign Group between 1994 and 2015.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:15
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TinTower posted:Well done, you've described the entire modus operandi of the Socialist Campaign Group between 1994 and 2015. I dunno, I think it's more fitting for the lib dems personally.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:18
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TinTower posted:Well done, you've described the entire modus operandi of the Socialist Campaign Group between 1994 and 2015. I think comparing an ideologically aligned backbench group to a man of absolutely zero principle except self-interest is a bit off. Is there anything Chuka has taken a stand on that wasn't related to his own career? That he hasn't changed his tune on within a year?
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Jun 30, 2017 02:35
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number one pta fan posted:I think comparing an ideologically aligned backbench group to a man of absolutely zero principle except self-interest is a bit off. Is there anything Chuka has taken a stand on that wasn't related to his own career? That he hasn't changed his tune on within a year? no politicians have principles hth if you want transparent flip-flopping as the tides shift you need only examine Corbyn's own tack of his ship in the post-2015 tides. when we say "triangulation" this is "no, no, he respects the will of the people" this is not actually a bad trait in a politician - being able to convincingly adjust one's sails is very much technique and messaging team discipline
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Jun 30, 2017 04:12
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I read that in a pirate voice and 'Corbyn' sounds rad in a gruff West Country accent
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Jun 30, 2017 04:21
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ronya posted:no politicians have principles are the boat metaphors because of your love for Waterworld?
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Jun 30, 2017 04:26
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Saw someone on Facebook saying that Tom Watson condemned the Brexit amendment rebels today as divisive and opportunistic at worst or a poorly timed mistake at best. Stating that Corbyn was right to fire the shadow cabinet members for defying the whip. Can't find confirmation, has anyone seen anything?
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Jun 30, 2017 04:30
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I love waterworld let me tell you about waterworld: (I've never seen waterworld) it seems unclear to.me why some shad cab rebels were fired and some were not also: this Bravely Abstaining strategy is going to stink after a while; remember how well Bravely Abstaining the bedroom tax went down? people do not particularly care when you explain how Labour rebels are going to keep doing this and smirking at toothless whips; conversely Corbyn needs to be able to say "well we three lined it" in Brexit constituencies and still also have pro-Remain MPs hold on to their Remain constituencies. works for everyone, but it's a difficult line to maintain ronya fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 04:50
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I've seen a lot of middle class liberal types complain about this. It would bite Corbyn in the arse if they had anywhere to go but they don't. The extent to which some people think Brexit is the only issue and that Corbyn is just as bad as May because of this vote ignoring all the bad poo poo the Tories do that has nothing to do with Brexit rankles me. I hate the middle class types sometimes. Maybe I should stop reading Guardian comments and my Facebook news feed. I don't think Waterworld is as bad as some people make out either.
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Jun 30, 2017 04:55
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it is kind of funny to see white upper middle types getting to experience the marvel of "but this affects the lives of our families and close friends"/"lol nah our big tent has other demographic priorities. suck it up but remember to keep cheering for us" for themselves well done. this is what it's like being an ethnic minority. all the time. ronya fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 05:04
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Rupa Huq is my MP. We're a clear majority Remain constituency, and she campaigned very clearly on being the soft Brexit candidate in comparison to her mental Tory competition. So drat right she voted for the amendment, it's what we elected her for. Corbyn is great and all, but her mandate is the softest Brexit possible.
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Jun 30, 2017 05:39
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Remoaners (dear god, what has it come to that I'm using this term unironically) are newly-minted single-issue voters without a viable party to vote for and, to be quite honest, seeing the middle class constituency of economically agnostic metropolitan liberals that's dominated left-wing politics for so long fall into apoplectic rage at not getting what they want is deeply satisfying - albeit in a grim and spiteful way. Brexit is poo poo and terrible and we'll all suffer for it but if Tarquin's skiing holiday's hosed because of it, well it's a silver lining.
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Jun 30, 2017 05:40
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I've always been behind JC, we're of a mind on this point. Hope you brits break the EU leaving it.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:15
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TomViolence posted:Remoaners (dear god, what has it come to that I'm using this term unironically) are newly-minted single-issue voters without a viable party to vote for and, to be quite honest, seeing the middle class constituency of economically agnostic metropolitan liberals that's dominated left-wing politics for so long fall into apoplectic rage at not getting what they want is deeply satisfying - albeit in a grim and spiteful way. Brexit is poo poo and terrible and we'll all suffer for it but if Tarquin's skiing holiday's hosed because of it, well it's a silver lining.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:24
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They have ski resorts in Scotland. The working class could do alright out of Brexit, a new higher working minimum wage, plenty of work on the farms and plenty of work in the NHS.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:26
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One thing we haven't actually discussed is the No Deal approach. Do we actually think that the Tories would do this if they don't get a 'good deal' - whatever the gently caress that means because they wont tell us.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:27
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number one pta fan posted:
I was hoping that someone would point this out. This is really lovely and transparent move, deselection can't happen soon enough.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:36
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JFairfax posted:One thing we haven't actually discussed is the No Deal approach. JFairfax posted:They have ski resorts in Scotland.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:39
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forkboy84 posted:Anyway. Back to Grenfell, something I actually care about. I know MPs/lords have immunity over this sort of thing, but are councils immune to corporate manslaughter charges? These people have put a ridiculously low value on human life and they deserve to loving burn for it.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:41
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jBrereton posted:Yes also you're not us because you hosed off to America. brexit is gonna gently caress me over when I want to move to Europe.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:45
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I don't see much easier immigration from the Commonwealth after Brexit (and I'd like that too, not in the least because my girlfriend is from Commonwealth/not a UK citizen) outside of possibly a few "safe" countries like Canada, Australia and mayybe Singapore/Malaysia. British post-colonial history is one of tightening immigration rules, seems unlikely that it would suddenly change because of another step in a process that has been going on for decades.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:49
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Private Speech posted:I don't see much easier immigration from the commonwealth after Brexit (and I'd like that too) outside of possibly a few "safe" countries like Canada, Australia and mayybe Singapore/Malaysia. UK post-colonial history is one of tightening immigration rules, seems unlikely that it would suddenly change because of another step in a process that has been going on for decades. because brexit: Two countries have already told the UK they must relax immigration rules if they want free trade Australia and India both want a better visa deal for their citizens in exchange for a post-Brexit trade deal Australia's high commissioner to the UK, Alexander Downer, has echoed India’s calls for Theresa May to relax rules on visa restrictions on its citizens if she wants to form a lasting trading partnership outside the EU. Mr Downer told BBC Radio 4 that Canberra would seek "greater access" for Australian businesspeople before it agreed a deal with London. Informal ministerial talks between the two countries had already taken place to “explore the scope” of an agreement, he said. .. The Government’s attempts to woo India also hit a snag earlier this week. “Mobility issues are of importance to us; we cannot separate free movement of people from the free flow of goods, services and investments”, a senior Indian official said. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-a7540036.html
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Jun 30, 2017 06:51
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