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kant posted:Wait a minute. If all he did was change a 1 to a 2, assuming he meant number of hearts, then wouldn't the cybermen stop going after the humans?! He just broadened the definition, he didn't rewrite it. So any humanoid with one or two hearts are now on the menu.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:19
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kant posted:Wait a minute. If all he did was change a 1 to a 2, assuming he meant number of hearts, then wouldn't the cybermen stop going after the humans?! The way he described it, he widened the parameters rather than simply replacing the definition.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:21
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docbeard posted:The way he described it, he widened the parameters rather than simply replacing the definition. Still shouldn't have worked because Time Lords have time heads and space teeth, but whatever. 
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Jul 1, 2017 23:24
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I think my favourite part was the Simm Master trying on Missy's eyeliner.  The two Masters were perfect, especially Simm just revelling in every chance to be as pettily nasty as possible. Asking Bill for old bras, he's such a loving dick I also think this two-parter did the Cybermen justice pretty well, I liked that they were definitely the main threat of the second episode instead of playing second fiddle to the Master(s) again. Also Bill is probably the best companion in ages, Capaldi remains being only upstaged by his increasingly gorgeous hair, and oh my goodness gracious there's David Bradley. This was a pretty good season overall, yeah.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:32
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Was "Sontarans are interfering with all of human history" just a reference to the F2P mobile game, or is it something else? Really liked this episode, but also really hoping we get Nicholas Briggs re-dubbing all of Bill's lines in sassy cyberman voice as a DVD special feature or something.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:32
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I enjoyed that, though I feel a tad annoyed the cool Cybermen got overshadowed by the modern ones, but it wasn't terrible. Capaldi regenerating, though... he's been my favorite revival Doctor and it feels like he finally found his groove. If the rumors about him having another season on his contract but the powers that be decided to shove him out with everything else leaving this season in favor of a more Tennant-y Doctor makes me depressed. Capaldi is great, a hardcore fan, a man destined to play the Doctor, and it's ruined by poo poo behind the scenes. It's never easy watching the Doctor regenerate, but this time it hit harder than most. That was a good season, maybe the second best of the revival at least. Capaldi got to go out strong. Murderion posted:Was "Sontarans are interfering with all of human history" just a reference to the F2P mobile game, or is it something else? Was the first thing Four said after regenerating. Everything there was taken from other regenerations.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:36
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Murderion posted:Was "Sontarans are interfering with all of human history" just a reference to the F2P mobile game, or is it something else? "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" was what the Fourth Doctor mumbled post-regeneration, and I think the same lines were referenced in some earlier Capaldi episode as well? kant posted:Wait a minute. If all he did was change a 1 to a 2, assuming he meant number of hearts, then wouldn't the cybermen stop going after the humans?! loving loved the Doctor's ACTION TYPING mid-stumble, that was hilarious. Please consider that bit for your post-episode giffing, Jerusalem!
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Jul 1, 2017 23:37
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So if Missy can't regenerate, but we know she'll be back, I assume the next time we see her she'll be Peter Pratt or Geoffrey Beevers, right? That's a logical, sensible thing for me to assume.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:40
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Wow, that was great. Just how old were those jelly babies?
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Jul 1, 2017 23:45
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Fil5000 posted:So if Missy can't regenerate, but we know she'll be back, I assume the next time we see her she'll be Peter Pratt or Geoffrey Beevers, right? That's a logical, sensible thing for me to assume. It will probably just be Missy sitting up and saying "I remember a long time ago, I shot a strange woman, so I took precautions" or something like that. Though I don't know how she would have remembered being shoved up against a wall and being told pick a new dematerializer whatsit when The Master shouldn't have remembered anything due to the timelines being out of sync.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:49
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Unless I missed it I don't think it was shown Missy was the direct regeneration on from Simm. They acted like it was because that makes sense but my (new & dumb) theory is that it's entirely possible there are regenerations to come between him and her, especially with the "long time ago" line. All quite evil and wanted to dick around with the Doctor some more.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:57
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Murderion posted:Was "Sontarans are interfering with all of human history" just a reference to the F2P mobile game, or is it something else? Funny, even though it's likely it's more of a direct reference to Fours regeneration mumblings, I also initially wondered if that was a nod to the mobile game.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:58
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Cojawfee posted:It will probably just be Missy sitting up and saying "I remember a long time ago, I shot a strange woman, so I took precautions" or something like that. Though I don't know how she would have remembered being shoved up against a wall and being told pick a new dematerializer whatsit when The Master shouldn't have remembered anything due to the timelines being out of sync. Personally, I think she remembered everything and was lying and who cares if it's impossible because she's the Master. I also have the idea that she and the Doctor were playing Pass The Regeneration Energy a bit throughout the episode.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:58
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Capaldi saying "I don't want to go" as Ten seemed even more poignant knowing the situation of his departing.
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Jul 2, 2017 00:34
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I wish they'd stop writing HORRIBLE TERRIBLE TRAGIC NO WAY OUT endings for companions that then get magicked away. I really liked the Masters stabbing themselves in the back. I figured that was the only way a multi-Master episode could end, then kind of bought into the team up, but then when Missy called him over... that part was great.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:00
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I wish that the Capaldi not wanting to regenerate thing had been at all set up. Like have the Mondasian Cyberman who attacks him at the end be Bill, and he decides that if he's lost her he doesn't really want to go on. And I'm on the fence about David Bradley legit playing the First Doctor. He played a great Hartnell, but having him actually be the Doctor feels weird. Other than that, I quite enjoyed it.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:07
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Rochallor posted:I wish that the Capaldi not wanting to regenerate thing had been at all set up. Like have the Mondasian Cyberman who attacks him at the end be Bill, and he decides that if he's lost her he doesn't really want to go on. That's something I really liked. There is no overly dramatic "duty of care" moment because we've already been over that in series 9. Bill dies on her own terms, and the Doctor doesn't lose his mind over her death because they both went in expecting to die.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:21
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I remember posting something after the first episode this season saying that if they brought the star eye girl back it would ruin the impact of killing her.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:22
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And More posted:That's something I really liked. There is no overly dramatic "duty of care" moment because we've already been over that in series 9. Bill dies on her own terms, and the Doctor doesn't lose his mind over her death because they both went in expecting to die. Yeah, I actually really enjoyed how that all played out. He promised to help her, he found out he couldn't, they both accepted it and both decided to make the most of their last moments.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:24
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I liked how they folded in stuff from earlier episodes. Bill is able to hold onto her identity for a little while not because she is a magical person, but because she basically trained herself to do that while living under the monks, and she was able to that because her previous experiences with the Doctor. And then she is saved by the water monster they managed to peacefully disengage with back in the first episode. All of her experiences build her up into someone who can get a happy ending. I also loved that Cybermen are just something humans are prone to making. Cybernetic enhancement seems cool and good to us, right up to the point where it becomes horrifying.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:33
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Cojawfee posted:It will probably just be Missy sitting up and saying "I remember a long time ago, I shot a strange woman, so I took precautions" or something like that. Though I don't know how she would have remembered being shoved up against a wall and being told pick a new dematerializer whatsit when The Master shouldn't have remembered anything due to the timelines being out of sync. Yeah, even without directly remembering it, the Master/Mistress is a little too smart to turn her back on herself. The Master has come back from being turned into ashes, I don't think that a little blast that leaves a pretty corpse is going to prevent a regeneration or from them just hopping up and walking away.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:34
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Halfway through the episode, the Doctor stumbles and a little bit of regeneration energy glows in his hand. So the Doctor had an injury bad enough to make him start regenerating, even before the final blow? What was going on? How far back in this season was he regenerating? Is this important?
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Jul 2, 2017 01:36
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I think Missy gave him a stabbity stab on Floor 1056, or something.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:37
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glowing-fish posted:So the Doctor had an injury bad enough to make him start regenerating, even before the final blow? What was going on? How far back in this season was he regenerating? Is this important? He got a big zappy hug from a Cyberman while they were still on the roof of the hospital.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:38
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I'm watching on Amazon Prime where new episodes don't air until midnight, so I turned off my phone and all Internet-ready devices so as not to be spoiled for the Surprise Reveal of the Thirteenth Doctor in this episode. I feel a bit silly now.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:44
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I'm 25 minutes in and I just have to pop in to say this stuff with Bill is B R U T A L Moffat has written the most horrifying Cybermen episodes, maybe ever. GodDAMN.
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Jul 2, 2017 01:57
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The scene with the Cybermen coming out of the misty forest would have been much spookier if they'd just been the Mondas Cybermen.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:03
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Nice to know Nardole and the kids will be turned into Cybermen, theres still a time dilation and even if most were killed they would still have thousands of years to evolve further to try again.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:10
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Box of Bunnies posted:He got a big zappy hug from a Cyberman while they were still on the roof of the hospital. Yeah, and after that is when he started quoting previous incarnations and pulling out the old jelly babies.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:13
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Facebook Aunt posted:Yeah, and after that is when he started quoting previous incarnations and pulling out the old jelly babies. I actually didn't make the connection yet...its kind of hard to tell, because all the Doctors will occasionally mention things they liked in their past regenerations. Is there a list of all the past regenerations quoted or referenced?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:24
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Rochallor posted:And I'm on the fence about David Bradley legit playing the First Doctor. He played a great Hartnell, but having him actually be the Doctor feels weird. I'd be inclined to agree, but I think the casting of Hurndall opened the gates for this kind of thing, as long as it's done respectfully.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:55
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"One day, I shall come back."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ2tRqYLiNs
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Jul 2, 2017 02:58
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Carbon dioxide posted:That was a great Londo Mollari impersonation by Simm. My take was 100% Zathras, but I guess I can see that.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:04
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That was a pretty awesome episode in my book. Just absolutely perfect. Great use of the Cybermen, a tour de force performance by Pearl Mackie showing the truth of what it is to become a Cyberman, and great back and forth between The Two Masters. Props to the folks who called it weeks ago that they would kill each other, because I do recall reading that ITT! Simm was fantastic. His best turn as The Master as far as I'm concerned. I really felt those last lines about not wanting to change were Capaldi speaking personally. And man, him laying out on the floor with the hair and the red cape was 100% Pertwee. I think Bill will be disappointed if she traded up travelling the universe with The Doctor for going with a hot girl if he ends up regenerating into a hot girl. I think Nardole's ending is a bit lame though--there's no reason The Doctor can't go back for him. Well maybe when Missy regenerates she'll grab him and they'll come up with a way off the ship. The ending was perfect. Was not expecting David Bradley to show up here (though I knew he was in the Christmas Special). This will be very good indeed!
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Jul 2, 2017 03:11
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Fil5000 posted:So if Missy can't regenerate, but we know she'll be back, I assume the next time we see her she'll be Peter Pratt or Geoffrey Beevers, right? That's a logical, sensible thing for me to assume. CaptainCaveman posted:I wish they'd stop writing HORRIBLE TERRIBLE TRAGIC NO WAY OUT endings for companions that then get magicked away. happyhippy posted:Nice to know Nardole and the kids will be turned into Cybermen, theres still a time dilation and even if most were killed they would still have thousands of years to evolve further to try again.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:13
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Astroman posted:I think Nardole's ending is a bit lame though--there's no reason The Doctor can't go back for him. Well maybe when Missy regenerates she'll grab him and they'll come up with a way off the ship. The Doctor never expected to get back to his TARDIS, and by the time he did and was conscious again, he wasn't in any condition to pilot it anywhere. But then, the story isn't exactly over yet.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:17
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I think the most terrifying thing was the pre-Cybermen scarecrows.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:18
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BSam posted:I'd be inclined to agree, but I think the casting of Hurndall opened the gates for this kind of thing, as long as it's done respectfully. I am all for it, if you are writing and acting in the spirit of the characters. Plus, it's Doctor Who, it's basically made for British actors to take over roles.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:30
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I wish The Moff hadn't decided to do a story with a ghoulish parody of the First Doctor, but I only have to trust him for one more episode. He did well enough with Bill's ending I thought, there was some talk about how killing off a black lesbian character would be evil and explicitly giving her the option to go back to her unsatisfying life helps establish that she's ultimately going to get what she wants, whatever that is. And boy did she earn it.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:34
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I realize a lot of you are iffy on last year, but with some rare hiccups, I've really liked Moffat's whole run, (with the notable exception of Smith's last series which is completely a wash since Day of the Doctor was so amazing) and this year might be his best since his first. I haven't given a single poo poo about the cybermen ever until these last two episodes, and now I find the Mondasian brand genuinely terrifying.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:38
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