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2house2fly posted:10 didn't regenerate into himself, he used a bit of energy to heal himself and then siphoned all the rest off into his spare hand before it could change his face. Respect The Lore That was as RTD wrote it, but Moffat specifically had 11 say it counted, it was a full regeneration. If there weren't 2 10s and War, Moffat never could have gotten his New Regeneration Cycle Moment.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:07
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Of course it counts, he made the hand grow into an entire other person!
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Jul 2, 2017 17:08
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I wish Nardole's backstory had more detail, he was the most interesting of the three.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:27
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I liked "You know what I was like when you found me, I'd sell them their own ship back to them, once a year! Putting me in charge of farming humans.."
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Jul 2, 2017 17:31
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We're losing Peter Capaldi, Michelle Gomez and Pearl Mackie by the end of the season? What the gently caress? I thought that was a stellar finale but I wish Missy had a death with a little more fanfare, and the Pilot coming back to whisk Bill off was odd to me.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:37
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Shneak posted:We're losing Peter Capaldi, Michelle Gomez and Pearl Mackie by the end of the season? What the gently caress? Yeah, it sounds like the BBC doesn't just want a younger, "more marketable" Doctor, they want to start with an entire clean slate. Which, well, Moffat got to do that too, so it might not be bad. But drat am I going to miss this cast.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:42
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Jerusalem posted:(click to view) NEVER TRUST A HUG
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Jul 2, 2017 17:45
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Do how did that Stephen Moffat you were all so "chuffed" about work out you limey idiots?
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Jul 2, 2017 17:57
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Arglebargle III posted:Do how did that Stephen Moffat you were all so "chuffed" about work out you limey idiots? On the whole, really well. Good times.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:58
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He worked out like so:
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Jul 2, 2017 17:58
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a couple of good episodes mixed in with some real stinkers, mostly bad finales. same as RTD tbh
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Jul 2, 2017 18:19
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jivjov posted:Ooh, now I hope someone gets McGann to read that speech at a convention. (Or not. I honestly feel a bit bad for the actors getting handed lines they've never seen before and expected to deliver them in character) I wish people would do this but with monologues that have nothing to do with Doctor Who. Like somebody just walks up and hands Peter Davison a piece of paper with Christopher Walken's speech about the watch from "Pulp Fiction" on it
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Jul 2, 2017 18:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgU5l5Tmmwg That's one hell of a violinist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rASnnDQeWZ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWQDclOZh3I
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Jul 2, 2017 19:00
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That reminds me, I loved the sequence in Heaven Sent where he's punching through the wall as hard as he can until his knuckles bleed and then he gets murdered and the cycle begins anew. It's a great montage, seeing him desperately tunnel through feet of thick ice while reciting a story.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:19
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happyhippy posted:Also nice to see Bill not give two shits about the rest now trapped with cybermen on one side, and a loving black hole on the other. The black hole was already a non-issue when they arrived on the ship. Personally, I think fighting for someone until your mangled and machinised body keels over is quite enough of a poo poo to give.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:22
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BioEnchanted posted:That reminds me, I loved the sequence in Heaven Sent where he's punching through the wall as hard as he can until his knuckles bleed and then he gets murdered and the cycle begins anew. It's a great montage, seeing him desperately tunnel through feet of thick ice while reciting a story. It's nice to have a live version at least
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Jul 2, 2017 19:27
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I thought Missy's death was really disappointing and I hope that she survived and comes back in a later episode. I don't know how that would work though cause it's hard for me to imagine her interacting with a Doctor besides Capaldi. Also I'm surprised no one is talking about how Simm Master got a boner for Missy and asked her if it was ok.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:29
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n4 posted:Also I'm surprised no one is talking about how Simm Master got a boner for Missy and asked her if it was ok. Yeah, he's a gross dude. I love it. Missy's response is also incredible: "Is it wrong that I…?" "Yes. Very." BioEnchanted posted:That reminds me, I loved the sequence in Heaven Sent where he's punching through the wall as hard as he can until his knuckles bleed and then he gets murdered and the cycle begins anew. It's a great montage, seeing him desperately tunnel through feet of thick ice while reciting a story. This piano cover is really great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJIGyRAHNU
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Jul 2, 2017 19:35
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Sorry about this. Bit of a rant incoming. I know it's an age-old tradition of Who fans to poo poo on whoever's steering the ship, but I've never understood the downright hatred for Steven Moffat - especially after he was seen as the Lord and Saviour when he stepped up the the big plate. Like, yes, his tenure has seen cack-handed scheduling and budgeting, but the man has devised far more excellent episodes and moments for Doctor Who than he has clunkers, and he has stewarded the Smith and Capaldi tenures, both of which have brought a copper-bottomed actorly solidity to the role of The Doctor. I've been a Who fan since a wee kid, after McCoy but long before the Eccleston series, and I remember well the feeling that RTD was running on cheap hack-fraud fumes towards the end and 'thank god Moffat is taking over and every episode will be an Empty Child or Girl In The Fireplace masterpiece', but the pitch and volume of this shrieking Moffat is cancer and I can't wait until he's gone and everything he touches turns to poo poo mentality is frankly, baffling to me. If the fans were so quick to set expectations based on Moffat's previous work on Who before he became showrunner, I can't understand why so many are so excited to see the franchise move to the hands of Chris 'Cyberwoman' / 'The Hungry Earth' Chibnall. I know this makes me look like the biggest Moffat fanboy/apologist - I think he has a lot of faults which I edited out here for the sake of brevity, but I think he has done far more good for Doctor Who than bad, and the dancing on his showrunner corpse seems very odd to me. Sorry to rant. I really liked the last episodes having not enormously liked a Moffat episode since Heaven Sent.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:38
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BioEnchanted posted:I liked "You know what I was like when you found me, I'd sell them their own ship back to them, once a year! Putting me in charge of farming humans.." The fact that he was bald and once blue makes me wonder if he's of the same species as Maldovar, and he was also a bit of a schemer. Though perhaps that's just me stereotyping bluish people...
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Jul 2, 2017 19:46
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HopperUK posted:On the whole, really well. Good times. I see the Brexit set has its Who fans.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:52
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Matinee posted:Sorry about this. Bit of a rant incoming. People loving hated RTD by the time he called it quits and couldn't wait for Moffat. Now people loving hate Moffat, wish RTD was back and can't wait for Moffat to quit. In a couple of years, everyone will loving hate Chibnall, wish Moffat was back and won't be able to wait for Chibnall to quit. I think it's one of those universal constants.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:53
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Arglebargle III posted:I see the Brexit set has its Who fans. So is this the weakest trolling of all time or s you have a point to make?
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Jul 2, 2017 19:56
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Matinee posted:I know it's an age-old tradition of Who fans to poo poo on whoever's steering the ship, but I've never understood the downright hatred for Steven Moffat - especially after he was seen as the Lord and Saviour when he stepped up the the big plate. I think the list goes something like this: - Terrible with money aka "Where are my two series worth of episodes, you fucker" - Can't stop saying terrible things in interviews - Sleeps with his producers - Season arcs are overly dramatic/ incoherent - Too much River All of that doesn't bother me, personally. His decision to hand over a two-parter and a three-parter to Peter Harness, though… 
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Jul 2, 2017 19:56
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I can't get enough of Twelves Theme aka A Good Man. I know that it played in nearly every episode, but I would get a kick out of it every time and I never tired of it. It's just a very powerful piece of music and the build up is simply epic. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 20:00
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Matinee posted:[snip] I think it's familiarity breeding contempt. The fact that the showrunner does so many stories per series, plus the number of series they do it for, leads to both some fume-running but also just getting tired of familiar tricks, jokes, and ideas that they draw upon. If there's only a couple of things Moffat does regularly, and he writes a quarter, a third, or even half of of the episodes that series and has done for the past few years, well... I think overall, I found the second Smith series to be the point where certain tics in Moffat's writing and arc plotting got a bit much for me. I think those were reduced a bit after Capaldi though and I've been pretty happy with the guy since this series began. I think it was his freshest since Series 5. Also the budgeting & scheduling stuff has been pretty annoying, but I'm just some guy. I don't know how to make TV.  I think RTD and Moffat ended up having quite similar interesting similarities in their writing styles, tics, and problems at points, especially around the period of the production issues in Moff's run, but I'd have to think about that and rewatch some stories before I could write anything solid about it.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:04
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Moffat lost me after series 6 and then won me back after Day Of The Doctor, and I'm a straight up Moffat Defender, as I think a lot more people will be as his era fades into the past. That said, he was in charge of the show, and if you're in charge you're authority, and what the correct attitude to authority is rebel
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Jul 2, 2017 20:17
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Wheat Loaf posted:In a couple of years, everyone will loving hate Chibnall, wish Moffat was back and won't be able to wait for Chibnall to quit. This is a drat dirty lie. We started doing that the moment he was announced. Including me.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:38
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Yeah, my major issues with Moff are that he is poo poo at season finales and even shitter at financing the show. RTD, for all his faults with dei ex machina, at least gave season finales a decent blockbuster feel. I mean, Nine telling the Daleks to basically do one still gives me chills. The only time Moff really got that style was probably Day of the Doctor and probably Time. Say what you want about Tinkerbell Jesus, I'd rather see that in my camp Saturday night scifi than The Doctor And Arya Stark Philosophise About Mortality For Fifteen Minutes.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:45
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TinTower posted:Yeah, my major issues with Moff are that he is poo poo at season finales and even shitter at financing the show. Yeah, agreed. I can't quite pin down how or why but I always had more affection and engagement with Rusty's excesses than Moff's. Maybe I just prefer something in RTD's writing style.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:54
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Nthing the I-Don't-Want-Missy-To-Go. Michelle Gomez's eyes are wonderful.n4 posted:Also I'm surprised no one is talking about how Simm Master got a boner for Missy and asked her if it was ok. I was gonna say this, but figured it'd be a bit gauche. Unrelated, a youtube comment of all things made me feel a little bit more  about the tragedy of the Doctor not knowing that Missy intended to stand with him: the last Companion-Saying-Doctor memory he had was of Missy. Somewhere in his brain, he knows Missy was going to help.Oh, and some choice bits from this might amuse some here: quote:"I tell you what," he said. "I wrote to Russell [T Davies] when I was doing this. I said, 'I'm going to bring back one of your characters. Do you want the spoiler or not?' And he went, 'Tell me, tell me'. quote:But no, there was something different in mind from Moffat, with help from Davies. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 20:56
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Stabbatical posted:Yeah, agreed. I can't quite pin down how or why but I always had more affection and engagement with Rusty's excesses than Moff's. Maybe I just prefer something in RTD's writing style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfkWiQnfb0Y  e: Actually, scenes like this make me miss big Murray Gold compositions like the Dalek or Cyberman theme, or Gallifrey, or Song for Victory and Vale Decem. Smith only really got his own theme and The Wedding of River Song and Capaldi got even less. There's a reason why Moff's second biggest excess – the Doctor getting another set of regenerations – used Gallifrey then Ten's theme, after all. TinTower fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 20:57
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Since it's all done but one last hurrah, I can safely say that I am firm in my assessment that Moffat is an excellent writer (though not without his foibles and flaws), and is not a very good showrunner. I wouldn't characterize his run on Doctor Who as bad at all, but I would characterize it as inconsistent, and especially prone (particularly later on) to what felt like first drafts being thrown up on screen without any time taken for polishing or editing. Some extremely low lows, but also some amazing highs.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:06
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Man, I forgot just how quaint the 2005-era spaceship ship sets and effects in general looked compared to the stuff that's in the latest few series. But it still works perfectly. docbeard posted:I wouldn't characterize his run on Doctor Who as bad at all, but I would characterize it as inconsistent, and especially prone (particularly later on) to what felt like first drafts being thrown up on screen without any time taken for polishing or editing. Some extremely low lows, but also some amazing highs. Basically was RTD then. 
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Jul 2, 2017 21:07
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To be fair, the Master and Missy did dance. That's established metaphor. 
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Jul 2, 2017 21:10
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Yeah, Eccleston's first season looks incredibly dated these days, but if you asked me to marathon any of the new series over a weekend, it would be top of my list, followed by series four. I also miss Rusty's bottle episodes, because concrete-loving aside, "Boom Town" and "Midnight" are two of his best scripts. docbeard posted:I wouldn't characterize his run on Doctor Who as bad at all, but I would characterize it as inconsistent, and especially prone (particularly later on) to what felt like first drafts being thrown up on screen without any time taken for polishing or editing. Some extremely low lows, but also some amazing highs. In fairness, "Midnight" was written in three days when RTD was high on Calpol. TinTower fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 21:10
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Having rewatched the first episode a couple of days previously, I have to say Heather coming back was more "unexpected" than an outright rear end-pull. At the end of The Pilot, she touches Heather even though the Doctor and Nardole tell her it's a really bad idea, and it's clear that Bill is a big part of her retaining/rebuilding her human identity. I actually like Bill's happy ending because it feels like something she's earned without the show telling us she's the super-special-awesome specialest companion ever. She resists memory control under the monks, she resists conversion into a cyberman. She's kind and loving to a messed-up watery spaceship lady with godlike powers, spaceship lady comes back to save her.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:16
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Murderion posted:Having rewatched the first episode a couple of days previously, I have to say Heather coming back was more "unexpected" than an outright rear end-pull. At the end of The Pilot, she touches Heather even though the Doctor and Nardole tell her it's a really bad idea, and it's clear that Bill is a big part of her retaining/rebuilding her human identity. And, as was mentioned earlier, this isn't just her 'well your life is over but you get this consolation prize' the way the thing with Clara kind of was, she's given a choice about what she wants to do with this new lease on life, and she's in control of her own destiny, arguably for the first time in her life. A Good Ending.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:22
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TinTower posted:There's a reason why Moff's second biggest excess – the Doctor getting another set of regenerations – used Gallifrey then Ten's theme, after all. It uses a wonderfully triumphant bit of the Gallifrey theme that I absolutely adore (it's real 'the Gods have arrived' type music). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzxx1WkITXg
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Jul 2, 2017 21:26
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I was really happy with this season overall, a couple of duff episodes but for the most part pretty good!
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Jul 2, 2017 21:28
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