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Ramadu posted:How do I learn to play a thamagaturage if I don't know how to make the big deeps?? That's all I can do! Unfortunately there's no central repository of class guides. There's a google doc that I know of but that was for pre-SB BLM. However, you're somewhat in luck, aside from AoE rotations, BLM gameplay is rather intuitive and straightforward, with the problem being that it will completely change at 60 Vs 50. At 50 you fish for firestarter and thundercloud procs. Keep lightning DoT up and hammer out F1s with an F3 whenever you get a proc and B3 whenever you run out of MP (generally you should try to refresh thunder in umbral to give yourself some time to regen). You also F3 at the start to get immediately into Astral Fire 3. For AoE, you use F2 until you have just enough mana for a Flare, then you use that (ideally with swiftcast) and from that point you transpose, wait until you get an MP tick, and then delay maybe half a second more depending on your spell speed before casting F3 followed by 2 F2s and a Flare again. If you have convert or an x-ether up, you can tack on additional flares before transposing. Although come to think of it, now that Thunder 2 is AoE, you probably want to fit that in after the transpose before F3ing back to Flare. If you do that, you don't have to delay regardless of cast speed. At 60, it's all about F4. At this point the name of the game is using F4s with a minimal number of F1s to keep up astral fire (and you can sub in F3 if you get lucky and get a proc or use sharpcast). Once you're out of MP, B3, same thing as 50 applies with trying to line up thunder refreshes in umbral (you should also try to avoid clipping the DoT as much as possible, although letting a thundercloud proc drop is wasteful, because as long as it gets at least a few DoT ticks, it beats F4 for potency and as of SB will no longer mess up your rotation timing). Cast B4 once to give yourself umbral hearts and then back to astral via F3. Thanks to the umbral hearts, your time in astral fire will be greatly extended, but what you do there doesn't change at all. I have no idea if it is better to start fights in umbral and do a B4 cast before starting into your first astral phase or not. Thankfully, your single target rotation does not change again at 70, it just provides a bunch of utility and now you also slip in a Foul cast whenever you have it up (although I prefer to save it for umbral phases where possible). However, your AoE rotation DOES change at 68, because now umbral hearts applied to flare. Using flare will consume any remaining umbral hearts (effect is the same with 1 Vs 3) and now will only consume 2/3 of your MP. This allows you to flare twice before transposing if you have umbral hearts. Thus your rotation becomes B3, B4, F3, maybe an F2 or two, then two Flares, transpose, B4 for umbral hearts (same caveats with slipping in Foul applies here as with single target rotation and you still want to maintain thunder 4). Same stuff with convert still applies as with the 50 AoE rotation, though now you'll need max-ethers. That's my general gist, but I'm sure I got stuff wrong or explained it poorly or forgot something. Edit: I should've included this initially, here's the link to the google doc. Looks like it will be updated eventually but is not yet updated: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iws0GeBJv2fJLJOJX4TyywPy6f0x_eR5uHMC8EiyGLI/preview Obligatum VII fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 18:43
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SKULL.GIF posted:
The music part doesn't bother me; I actually really enjoy being able to support my team. The new ranged TP/MP restores make me feel real useful, and when I play melee I feel like a champ being able to use Goad now. Bard getting a sweet toot flute is far from a downside. My main issue with the class is that, to my understanding, the basic gameplay loop is babysitting two DoTs while mashing one attack ad infinitum. I really wish they would just give ranged DPS a proper combo class that doesn't rely on fishing for procs, but I guess that's the domain of melee. If that's not how Bard plays then feel free to correct me.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:43
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I love how this is literally part of the Bard quest line, that everyone looks at Bard and goes "pfft? music?"
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Fister Roboto posted:You have to be Sergeant 2nd Class to be able to do this unfortunately. The best way to get seals for ranking up before that is definitely supply missions. And honestly just do supply missions anyway to level up your gathering and crafting classes. Even if you never touch them otherwise, it doesn't hurt to have them as an option later (or to just be able to repair your own gear).
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Jul 3, 2017 18:44
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Okay the NoClip documentary has me wanting to play again. I want to start fresh with goons. I only have the base game on PS4, if starting from scratch am I missing a whole lot by not buying the expansions right away? I'm hoping at least for right this moment I can just download the game again, resub and play until I'm ready to buy the expansions.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:48
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Gally posted:I want a naadam front lines that is 8v8v8v8v8v8v8vEct. It will be horrible chaos forever. That would be hilarious, I approve. Throw in various Xaela NPCs too just to spice it up further.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:51
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Unless your heart is set on being a dragonman/woman you won't be missing out for not having the expansions until level 50.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:52
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Ularg posted:Okay the NoClip documentary has me wanting to play again. I want to start fresh with goons. I only have the base game on PS4, if starting from scratch am I missing a whole lot by not buying the expansions right away? I'm hoping at least for right this moment I can just download the game again, resub and play until I'm ready to buy the expansions. The only thing the expansions give you before level 50 is the lizardpeople race. If you don't care about that right away (you can swap to it later for  ) then you're set with just the base game.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:52
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nuru posted:I'm torn between "PvP is popular" and "Everyone is just using PvP to level and doesn't care about PvP itself". There's no functional difference tbh. Says me as I sit here glowering at shitass potd.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:52
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Ularg posted:Okay the NoClip documentary has me wanting to play again. I want to start fresh with goons. I only have the base game on PS4, if starting from scratch am I missing a whole lot by not buying the expansions right away? I'm hoping at least for right this moment I can just download the game again, resub and play until I'm ready to buy the expansions. You dont get anything from the expansions until level 50, except making a dragon person in character creation.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:53
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Well time to buckle up because I'm coming in... about 5 hours according to the download manager. Not including patches, prob. Oh, one last thing, the account website has like two different accounts linked to it. I guess user error (dumb me) made one for the Beta then another for release but last I checked when you had to select which one you wanted to sub it's just a bunch of random numbers.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:58
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Obligatum VII posted:Unfortunately there's no central repository of class guides. There's a google doc that I know of but that was for pre-SB BLM. Quoting this for future reference 
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Jul 3, 2017 19:07
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Rainuwastaken posted:My main issue with the class is that, to my understanding, the basic gameplay loop is babysitting two DoTs while mashing one attack ad infinitum. I really wish they would just give ranged DPS a proper combo class that doesn't rely on fishing for procs, but I guess that's the domain of melee. If that's not how Bard plays then feel free to correct me. what you're missing is the amount of ogcd stuff and cycling between songs bard's also got going on to keep up with
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Jul 3, 2017 19:14
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When are they going to let me date my Adventurer Squad/let me set up dates between my Adventurer Squad? This is a big missed opportunity sqeenix and shipping market is huge! Fister Roboto posted:You have to be Sergeant 2nd Class to be able to do this unfortunately. The best way to get seals for ranking up before that is definitely supply missions. Oh wow it's been so long I don't think I remember or ever knew that.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:18
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Rainuwastaken posted:The music part doesn't bother me; I actually really enjoy being able to support my team. The new ranged TP/MP restores make me feel real useful, and when I play melee I feel like a champ being able to use Goad now. Bard getting a sweet toot flute is far from a downside. You're right, you want Stormbite and Caustic Bite up, then refresh them every 30 seconds with Iron Jaws, while keeping Straighter Shot up and using Heavy Shot on cooldown. That's the basic line, but it gets more complicated quickly when you start mixing in songs and their oGCDs. You'll rotate through three songs, all of them run off your DOTs critting which gives you a Repertoire. All 3 songs give 2% crit to the party. Wanderer's Minuet gives you a stack of Pitch Perfect for each Repertoire, you want to burn these when you hit 3 stacks (or 2 if you have absurdly high crit%) for 420 potency. Mage's Ballad instantly resets your Bloodletter every time your DOTs crit. Army's Paeon gives you 4% haste per Repertoire up to 4x. Then on top of that you add in Empyreal Arrow which gives you a free Repertoire stack each time it's used, Refulgent Arrow which consumes a Straighter Shot proc, and Barrage which you want to use on Refulgent Arrow ideally but probably will be using on Empyreal Arrow. It's not a combo class, no, but there's so much stuff going on you're never lacking buttons to push. Rotating between three songs does a lot for keeping it varied, too, instead of repeating the same actions for the entire fight.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:22
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i dunno if i need to let anyone in here know but i applied to the omega fc please let me in and trash my glamours
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Jul 3, 2017 19:25
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Failboattootoot posted:There's no functional difference tbh. Says me as I sit here glowering at shitass potd. There is though because the former group plays to win (or their idea of what that means) and the latter is more likely to not give a poo poo and /intensely/ defend the base.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:28
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Triple casting flares is the funniest loving thing in this game. It's less funny when I forget to pop diversion beforehand but it's worth it. Question regarding the new BLM rotation at 70. I'm doing: bliz 4 > fire 3 > fire2 x2 > flare > t4> flare > transpose > bliz 4 > repeat (fouls where appropriate obviously) I'm hearing some people say it's best to skip the 2xfire2s and just flare more. Has anyone actually parsed it out? The damage from the flares is huge but I feel like there's just too much downtime between flares.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:29
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Brother Entropy & SKULL.GIF posted:bard stuff I was not aware that there was that much extra stuff going on. The class felt frustrating to me when I leveled it in Heavensward due to feeling like I didn't have much else to do after applying DoTs but spam Heavy Shot, but that might have been down to Wanderer's sucking the fun out of things and my stats being too low to have crit fever giving me more to do. I'll give it another try for sure, since OGCD frenzy + no cast times sounds like a fun combination. Thanks for the heads up. 
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Jul 3, 2017 19:30
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nuru posted:There is though because the former group plays to win (or their idea of what that means) and the latter is more likely to not give a poo poo and /intensely/ defend the base. You're lucky if they're "guarding" the base. I mostly see a few people vehemently guarding spawn.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:31
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I still can't make up my mind on whether to level PLD or DRK from 62. Tell me, how often does DRK get to realistically use The Blackest Night in an encounter? What about PLD and the seemingly-weaker Sheltron?
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Jul 3, 2017 19:35
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Ciaphas posted:I still can't make up my mind on whether to level PLD or DRK from 62. Tell me, how often does DRK get to realistically use The Blackest Night in an encounter? What about PLD and the seemingly-weaker Sheltron? Sheltron is amazing. In shield oath holy spirit generates 20 oath, so you'll generate enough to use sheltron at least twice per minute. I use it on every single tankbuster and then some more. Also note that my block mitigates 24% damage currently, so it's not really weaker. Philonius fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 19:41
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:this sort of thing always sounds cool in theory because you imagine like people guarding their gatherers and stuff but what actually happens is people just wait until the server is asleep to go do it This is a little disingenuous, the reason a lot of people on the OF poo poo themselves over the PVP minion was because it was specifically being considered as a Season 2(?) PVP reward, and since the rewards change every season, people were worried they were pulling some dumb "limited time only" poo poo with it before taking it out of circulation altogether. Reactionary? Sure, but its not like SE doesn't have a track record of making dumb decisions in this game, so I get why the people that care about that sort of thing (lol) would be concerned.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:58
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Ciaphas posted:I still can't make up my mind on whether to level PLD or DRK from 62. Tell me, how often does DRK get to realistically use The Blackest Night in an encounter? What about PLD and the seemingly-weaker Sheltron? pld beats drk in basically every respect and this is like the 10th time you've asked the thread this
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Jul 3, 2017 19:59
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Fun fact: blackest night procs after any damage shields are depleted so if you put a critlo on a DRK with it up they get annoyed.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:01
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Ciaphas posted:I still can't make up my mind on whether to level PLD or DRK from 62. Tell me, how often does DRK get to realistically use The Blackest Night in an encounter? What about PLD and the seemingly-weaker Sheltron? Everything I've read says that the MP spent on Blackest Night should just be spent on Dark Arts DPS instead. Bloodspiller is just kinda piss-weak for what it costs to generate 50 blood quickly. 
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Jul 3, 2017 20:04
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its crazy how their combat rebalance or wahtever resulted in like half the classes hating the changes
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Jul 3, 2017 20:07
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It's hilarious how the classes everyone say are unambiguously better for it are both the ones that changed the least (PLD, WHM, AST) and the one that was changed the most (BRD.) Everyone else has something to complain about.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:16
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Sheltron is without a doubt the best active mitigation ability, and that's a lot of the reason paladin is so good right now. It's on demand 20+% mitigation (and the value will increase as the expansion cycle goes on), and the only opportunity cost is Intervention, which isn't useful as the MT anyway. In fact it actually increases your dps by giving you MP for more Holy Spirits. Blackest Night is in the middle because it has a high dps opportunity cost, but makes up for it by giving blood gauge. Inner Beast has a huge dps opportunity cost and requires being in tank stance, which neither Sheltron or Blackest Night do, and it has a secondary effect that might as well not exist.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:17
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hobbesmaster posted:Fun fact: blackest night procs after any damage shields are depleted so if you put a critlo on a DRK with it up they get annoyed. I hate healing DRKs, not because they're bad or anything (they certainly aren't), but because of poo poo like this and them wanting to take damage to refill their resources. I always have to second guess myself when I go to use my AoE stun because sometimes it just leaves the tank with no resources. It's not a wipe or anything but if my DRK friends are to be believed it's frustrating.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:20
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Well, decided to go ahead and buy the base game. Any particular difference between the goon guilds for a new player likely to have a lot of questions, beyond the one guild's spoiler policy?
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Jul 3, 2017 20:32
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e: blech nevermind it started working as soon as I posted.
A Spider Covets fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 20:33
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Cythereal posted:Well, decided to go ahead and buy the base game. I have friends in all of them and we seem to all have the same praises/complaints so I think they're basically the same barring the spoiler thing.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:36
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tomorrow's the Omega Normal update right? I'm up to the point where I just found out about Lakshmi, how much more MSQ do I have to go?
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Jul 3, 2017 20:37
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Augus posted:tomorrow's the Omega Normal update right? Not too far, you could finish it in an evening.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:40
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With regards to tanking: Is there any good way to figure out what Dark Mind works on? It's by far my biggest problem with Dark Knight and I actually end up forgetting it exists more than I like simply because outside of the really obvious ones I'm never 100% sure. (I tend to assume that anything beamy/energy-y is a magic attack but am never 100% sure.)
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Jul 3, 2017 20:52
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ImpAtom posted:With regards to tanking: Pretty much if it looks magic/energy based then it's likely a magic based attack and Dark Mind will help reduce the damage. It can be a little harder to tell if you're tanking on PLD now because you can block every type of attack now but some enemies will also have magic based auto attacks like Lakshimi and Sophia.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:02
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ImpAtom posted:With regards to tanking: ACT will tell you, but other than that not really. It's dumb.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:02
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There are a lot of laser-like attacks that do physical damage, which makes sense when you think about it.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:09
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Condiv posted:Pretty much if it looks magic/energy based then it's likely a magic based attack and Dark Mind will help reduce the damage. It can be a little harder to tell if you're tanking on PLD now because you can block every type of attack now but some enemies will also have magic based auto attacks like Lakshimi and Sophia. The major exceptions to this rule of thumb tend to be with enemies that are mostly physical in animations IE: Titan, the Garlean's etc. If they do something that looks magical it's actually (probably) physical. Or in other words if something is punching you with magic, whether said attack is physical or magical depends on what else they typically throw at you.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:12
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Renegret posted:Triple casting flares is the funniest loving thing in this game. It's less funny when I forget to pop diversion beforehand but it's worth it. I have, and on four or five enemies, your potency/second is marginally higher if you skip the F2s, while on six+enemies a pair of F2s mildly wins out. IMO they need to slightly up F2's potency so that the intuitive AoE rotation is always the correct one but we're in pretty good shape either way.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:39
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