|
It may be a bad idea for gameplay reasons, but I wouldn't mind if there was a countdown for the exploding boat level where it does kill you if you take too long. Add that sense of urgency. I would appreciate if the shaking camera doesn't launch you across the map while the boat is going through its explosions. Looks like they fixed the hologram becoming sentient bug. *Hologram NPCs no longer run away from projectiles. Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jul 2, 2017 |
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 15:14 |
|
|
Scalding Coffee posted:It may be a bad idea for gameplay reasons, but I wouldn't mind if there was a countdown for the exploding boat level where it does kill you if you take too long. Add that sense of urgency. I would appreciate if the shaking camera doesn't launch you across the map while the boat is going through its explosions. I'm not sure it ever occurred to me that it wasn't (liberally) timed. Kinda bullshit that it wasn't. Jedi Knight's level The Falling Ship was timed, and it was pre-Deus Ex.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
I haven't played Jedi Knight in years, check out this C-movie action (it's super bad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dw9nFt9Bw
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:This is completely backwards. Revision just changes the levels around arbitrarily and removes exploration rewards because they didn't hide things in the levels. Removing exploration rewards is a cardinal sin and a massive part of why I enjoy Deus Ex. Admittedly I only played about 1/4 of the game, but I hated every change I saw because none of the changes added anything to the gameplay. Oh look a new rooftop! Maybe I can get up there if I jump here.. and here.. and here... and yay I made it! Except there's nothing here at all. Repeat that scenario over and over. Don't even get me started about the massive locked door in UNATCO with literally nothing behind it. Not nearly enough games give exploration rewards; and one of the things I hate about modern Deus Ex and about most major DX mods is that they give you XP for kills. The thing is though, it's not inherently harder to kill people than to not kill people, and by giving you XP they make the best way to play a murderfest. There have been attempts to not do this, like the modern games giving you ghost bonuses, but really, then you just kill people quietly and get both. You can still play sneakily or avoidantly or really any way besides total psycho, but it's discouraged. Giving exploration points, however, is a great way to encourage the player to just see all the cool poo poo you made in the game, and reinforces the idea that if you go to new places just to see what's there, there's a reason for it!
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
aniviron posted:Not nearly enough games give exploration rewards; and one of the things I hate about modern Deus Ex and about most major DX mods is that they give you XP for kills. The thing is though, it's not inherently harder to kill people than to not kill people, and by giving you XP they make the best way to play a murderfest. There have been attempts to not do this, like the modern games giving you ghost bonuses, but really, then you just kill people quietly and get both. You can still play sneakily or avoidantly or really any way besides total psycho, but it's discouraged. Giving exploration points, however, is a great way to encourage the player to just see all the cool poo poo you made in the game, and reinforces the idea that if you go to new places just to see what's there, there's a reason for it! Well, in HR (I haven't played MD), you do get more xp for neutralizing enemies non-lethally than killing them, although that kind of ties into another problem with it which is that between non-lethal takedowns making less noise and getting more xp, it's actually easier to non-lethally take down most enemies than to kill them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 23:20
|
|
|
The whole idea of "knocking people out" doesn't make sense the way it's used, and it'll add new depth to the stealth genre when that's acknowledged. If you choke someone out, they arise a minute later, and sedative darts range from making the target woozy to killing them outright. A stealth game that tried to balance murder plus all of that would be amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:The whole idea of "knocking people out" doesn't make sense the way it's used, and it'll add new depth to the stealth genre when that's acknowledged. If you choke someone out, they arise a minute later, and sedative darts range from making the target woozy to killing them outright. The MGS games do this with varying levels of effectiveness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 23:36
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Well, in HR (I haven't played MD), you do get more xp for neutralizing enemies non-lethally than killing them, although that kind of ties into another problem with it which is that between non-lethal takedowns making less noise and getting more xp, it's actually easier to non-lethally take down most enemies than to kill them. It was an even bigger problem in HR; even when killing dudes, I would do a quiet tazer or melee takedown and then put a bullet in their unconscious form. All the XP none of the nonlethality. Also, you got headshot bonuses that none of the ranged non-lethal weapons were eligible for, so the difference between a headshot kill and a non-leathal was only ~5xp.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 00:10
|
|
|
The XP awards in HR were basically balanced around the available augs. There were a lot more stealth relevant augs than lethal, so the solution is buff stealth takedowns. The problem with that is it made hybrid playstyles pointless. And yeah lol the double dipping.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 00:14
|
|
|
Giving xp bonuses for different methods of taking out a guy is always going to make one playstyle more optimal. Just give xp bonuses for completing goals or side missions and you avoid that whole issue altogether
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
aniviron posted:Not nearly enough games give exploration rewards; and one of the things I hate about modern Deus Ex and about most major DX mods is that they give you XP for kills. The thing is though, it's not inherently harder to kill people than to not kill people, and by giving you XP they make the best way to play a murderfest. There have been attempts to not do this, like the modern games giving you ghost bonuses, but really, then you just kill people quietly and get both. You can still play sneakily or avoidantly or really any way besides total psycho, but it's discouraged. Giving exploration points, however, is a great way to encourage the player to just see all the cool poo poo you made in the game, and reinforces the idea that if you go to new places just to see what's there, there's a reason for it! Alpha Protocol is great for this. It gives you special perks depending on your playstyle. The game recognizes if you kill people, knock out people, or even just sneak by them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 06:58
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Except GMDX is awesome? quote:This is completely backwards. Edit - We had this discussion. We already had this discussion the first time GDMX was brought up, and the thread agreed it was poo poo. Why are we bringing this up again? Xander77 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jul 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 07:36
|
|
|
It's ok to have different opinions on things. Is this an idea too strange to the pro austism warriors of games
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
Psycho Society posted:It's ok to have different opinions on things. Is this an idea too strange to the pro austism warriors of games  Way to go, guy who doesn't understand why other people don't always want to talk about what you want them to talk about. You really called 'em out on that autism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 08:17
|
|
|
I'm sorry guys I don't want to fight. I just want to play awesome games 
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 10:04
|
|
|
gary oldmans diary posted:
i'm going to ignore this post. consider yourself lucky...
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 11:12
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:Edit - We had this discussion. We already had this discussion the first time GDMX was brought up, and the thread agreed it was poo poo. Why are we bringing this up again? I'm glad this matter has been solved until the end of times, thread opinion leader Xander77
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 11:22
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:It was good, but it could have stood to be a lot harder. Like, if you're doing level design for a maximum security prison, maybe don't make man-size air vents that go directly to the prisoners' cells? I mean if you're going to argue why there are mansize vents capable of carrying the weight of a fully augmented human I don't know why we're even going to bother with the series. Some things you just need to accept man. BrandorKP posted:How cheap is it now? £6.24 for the season pass. The individual DLC's are £4.74 so there's no reason not to get the bundle. Also I thought I'd posted that in the Mankind Divided thread but I guess that's dead now?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
I downloaded Revision via Steam and I've heard a lot about GMDX; would anyone care to summarize what each mod brings to the table without acting like an utter wanker? Presumably those here follow this thread because they are fans of the series (not so much 2, perhaps) and anything that can renew and extend interest is a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
GMDX adds way too much to be summarized in a post. The mod author did make some videos shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCa43BUf1a6p0hNmgvoQ96AA?videos And the feature list here: http://genericname112.wixsite.com/gmdx/features Revision mainly changes the level layouts and makes them 'prettier', but in my opinion the changes are significantly worse than the original. I wish I could find that post that someone made in here detailing how ridiculous some of the changes are... for instance, Manderley's office is now this giant super office for no reason. One of the cool aspects of the original level design is that there were a lot of hidden secrets everywhere. Almost every nook and cranny had some kind of little reward for exploring. Revision mostly does away with this. In my opinion the mod feels like a step back from the original game. 90% of the time the changes they make are unnecessary because the original game already HAD amazing level design. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 19:26
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:I downloaded Revision via Steam and I've heard a lot about GMDX; would anyone care to summarize what each mod brings to the table without acting like an utter wanker? SolidSnakesBandana posted:GMDX adds way too much to be summarized in a post.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:I'm sure GMDX changed the levels and the enemy AI in some way. That's not what struck me while playing it though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:I'm sure GMDX changed the levels and the enemy AI in some way. That's not what struck me while playing it though. Wow, we did have literally this exact same argument before. I totally forgot about it. Sorry guys! SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jul 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
One of the things I always liked (and disliked) about Deus Ex was the sheer amount of optional stuff it'd add in that people would never see. In I think the second or third mission where you have to infiltrate a building, one thing you could do is visit a smuggler who'd sell you poo poo. He gave you an optional objective to rescue his friend from an underground sewer. It was not a small area; it was a pretty sizeable area full of enemies with its own 'infiltrate any way you want' type thing going on. A mission within a mission so to speak. I loved it when I found it because my first playthrough I hadn't found it and there was suddenly this interesting new area to explore. Why did I dislike that aspect though? It bogged my game down to a crawl when I realized there were probably all kinds of crazy hidden areas and secrets that I didn't know about, and suddenly I started taking five times as long to complete missions because I wanted to explore everywhere and find everything. Nowadays I'd probably just use a walkthrough to find what I would have otherwise missed but the completionist in me was driven crazy when I realized just how many secret passages, hidden areas, and other interesting poo poo was out there that I'd never seen. I'm honestly tempted right now to reinstall and go through again, but since I already have too many games I've never even started I feel like I ought to get through some of my backlog first.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
I enjoyed gmdx a lot but I only played as a super sneaky spy who literally only whacked people with the stick on the back of the head.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:I enjoyed gmdx a lot but I only played as a super sneaky spy who literally only whacked people with the stick on the back of the head. Hey me too! Maybe that's the secret to enjoying GMDX. It seems like Xander was playing a guns guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 20:34
|
|
|
khy posted:One of the things I always liked (and disliked) about Deus Ex was the sheer amount of optional stuff it'd add in that people would never see. This is literally what everyone loves about Deus Ex. That you can play the game for a decade and still come across a new way of doing something or a reaction to something you'd never considered doing before that the devs took into account somebody somewhere might one day try.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Just a heads up for the people I see in this thread who, like me, were thinking of getting Mankind Divided in the Steam sale: The 'Everything Deus Ex' bundle has an even deeper discount than the individual games and it does the thing where the price of anything you already own is subtracted from the total, so because I have Human Revolution the whole thing was actually cheaper than MD with the season pass.  Plus I got Invisible War and the port of that mobile game thrown in to boot! Just make sure you check the megabundle before you pull the trigger on MD.
Lork fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Yeah, that's what I did and this was my cost breakdown for $10.39 total: Deus Ex: Invisible War $0.97 Deus Ex: The Fall $1.39 Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut $2.79 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided™ DLC - Season Pass $5.24 I had sort of wanted HR for PC anyway, so this ended up being cheaper than buying just the season pass and HR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
tempted, but that latest deus ex has some bad reviews i did like human revoution a lot though
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:tempted, but that latest deus ex has some bad reviews Its not actually a bad game, more that it was mistreated and now will never be resolved. Its worth the price now but people like me who bought it at launch are always gonna be a bit sore about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
I was tempted by Mankind Divided but I just can't stand an incomplete story which will never be completed. Human Revolution's last act was weak enough.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Alpha Protocol is great for this. It gives you special perks depending on your playstyle. The game recognizes if you kill people, knock out people, or even just sneak by them. It also had the two best end-of mission stats in games: Orphans created, and medical bills. The amount a kill/takedown added was variable based on region, too- a kill in china will never create more than one orphan. It also reacted to who you kill. Killing CIA operatives on the level where you infiltrate the listening post blows back on you and whatnot
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
jojoinnit posted:I mean if you're going to argue why there are mansize vents capable of carrying the weight of a fully augmented human I don't know why we're even going to bother with the series. Some things you just need to accept man. I also had a problem with the bank heist. OK, vents in general are goofy, fine. But in the original Deus Ex I feel like there usually aren't vents going into/out of hyper-secure facilities. There's goofy and then there's inorganic. I was embarrassed for the security people in those levels. "Hm, let's have a vent that goes from a prisoner's cell straight to the security office for this wing." Ugly In The Morning posted:It also had the two best end-of mission stats in games: Orphans created, and medical bills. The amount a kill/takedown added was variable based on region, too- a kill in china will never create more than one orphan. If that's true it's kinda weird, given that the China levels actually took place in Taiwan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 04:34
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:If that's true it's kinda weird, given that the China levels actually took place in Taiwan. Aren't you fighting PRC soldiers in the Taiwan levels, or am I misremembering?
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:Aren't you fighting PRC soldiers in the Taiwan levels, or am I misremembering? Oh yeah, you are, for two of the missions. I'm guessing that's what the guy I quoted meant. Presumably Triad gangsters leave more orphans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
I played through Revision around this time last year, basically pure nonlethal and stealth. I remember having a pretty good time, I think players will appreciate it more after playing through the original. All the levels were significantly expanded, but in more of a lateral way where there's more to do if you go out of your way. I didn't really find anything I disliked, and there were a bunch of changes to the later parts of the game (area 51, vandenberg, france) that made them a lot more interesting to go through. Area 51 especially was a lot lot lot larger and more interesting than I remember it was in the first. Anyways I haven't touched gmdx, I might when they release v9 but it'll be a little awkward going back to the smaller levels.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 05:15
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:I also had a problem with the bank heist. OK, vents in general are goofy, fine. But in the original Deus Ex I feel like there usually aren't vents going into/out of hyper-secure facilities. There's goofy and then there's inorganic. I was embarrassed for the security people in those levels. "Hm, let's have a vent that goes from a prisoner's cell straight to the security office for this wing." Honestly now that I'm thinking about it I feel like OGDE was actually way less heavy on vents than it feels like it was. I'm remembering a lot more shimmying and innovative use of wall bridging than actual vent crawling compared to the new ones. Maybe I just need to replay it again to refresh my memory. Its been a few years.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
The versalife and MJ12 facility in Hong Kong immediately comes to mind, you can cheese that entire subterranean base like a cyberpunk pop up pirate
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 10:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 15:14 |
|
|
jojoinnit posted:This is literally what everyone loves about Deus Ex. That you can play the game for a decade and still come across a new way of doing something or a reaction to something you'd never considered doing before that the devs took into account somebody somewhere might one day try. It wasn't until playthrough #20 or so that I discovered Lucius DeBeers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 13:41
|
|
