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what's your opinion on sex with your dad?
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# ? Jun 16, 2017 03:29 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 08:12 |
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crabrock posted:what's your opinion on sex with your dad? 4/10
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# ? Jun 16, 2017 03:41 |
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FunkyAl posted:Sheriff Niles - A Cheers/Frasier Expanded Universe Fanfiction
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# ? Jun 16, 2017 04:40 |
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Do you have any metroid fanfic
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# ? Jun 16, 2017 22:44 |
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I skipped it but read it with your edits. Nice.
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# ? Jun 17, 2017 02:53 |
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CantDecideOnAName posted:After The War, if you ever want to do a big genre breakdown effortpost, I would love to read it. Sociopastry posted:that's actually super interesting, and once you're off work I'd love to hear more about genre. Uh oh, looks like I’m in for it, now. Genre is one of those things that can be tricky to talk about, with pretty extreme reactions ranging from “you can’t tell me what to write, Genre Dad” to “I’m working on something solely to capitalize on the Zombie Wedding Planner Mystery market.” And while I’ve heard writers declare genre to be a bookstore creation to divide and conquer customers, it’s human nature to want to group things together. More than that, though, I’d argue that genre acts as a sort of pact or agreement between author and reader. My thinking on this came about from my time in of the few general Fiction Writing workshops that didn’t bar “genre” fiction submissions. Usually, such restrictions are attributed to snobbery or lack of imagination in the Academic Industrial Complex, but something interesting happened when one student shared a sci-fi story. Transhumanism, consciousness in the Net, nothing new to a venerable goon such as myself, but the class simply couldn’t handle it. Not that the concepts were too out there or the writing too esoteric, they just weren’t capable of approaching a sci-fi story. They lacked the frame of reference necessary to engage with it, and rather than a critique of the story itself, the session turned into an endless litany of “what does this mean” and the dreaded “I just don’t understand this at all.” Thankfully, I don’t think he was put off writing sci-fi altogether, but he certainly didn’t get what he needed from the workshop, either. Now, imagine if he had rewritten his piece to suit that group’s requirements, then brought it to a sci-fi workshop - they would have been bored to tears as he took time to explain ideas they were already familiar with. It would have been just as much a betrayal of expectations as with the first group, and that’s how I’ve come to define genre: a series of expectations on the part of both the reader and the writer. To go back to a question asked earlier in this thread, if we’re reading a Friends Killing Zombies story, we don’t need extensive detail about why they don’t leave it to the proper authorities. We know the police won’t take over from our characters, that’s not the kind of story we were promised, or wanted, or. A Cozy Mystery fan doesn’t need an extensive rationale for why Grandma is going after the murderer herself, that’s what they signed up for. Of course, it’s entirely possible to take this too far. I opened one of my mother’s trashy Paranormal Mysteries and the first paragraph would have been utterly incomprehensible to anyone not already familiar with the terminology. And this was the first book in a series! Likewise, there’s ample opportunity for abuse of genre conventions, skipping out on defining characters or story elements because of assumed reader familiarity. (This can be spun into an advantage as well - my gf found an article by someone who loved sports anime series specifically because of their formulaic plots. With an assumption that the viewer already knows the story beats, there’s more time for character development. Apparently.) Marketing aspect aside, it’s ultimately suggestions and guidelines. That’s one reason I mentioned tonal consistency in the earlier post - understanding reader expectations (and knowing when to go against them) can make the work as a whole feel more cohesive and satisfying. If the protagonists in a Lovecraft story mastered the Necronomicon halfway through and started kicking Elder God rear end, it would feel like a betrayal after all the time spent on the fragile human mind’s futility in understanding the terror of existence. More importantly, it would go against the reasons I read Cosmic Horror in the first place. On the other hand, It could work if rear end-Kicking Space Fantasy had been the genre from the beginning and it stayed consistent with with the story as implied to the reader. Don’t view any of it as a straightjacket, though! It’s absolutely up to the author where they want to go with something, and certainly not something to worry about in first drafts. Plus, genres are being created, reworked, and dissected all the time, and there are plenty of works that stubbornly refuse classification - I don’t know where the hell you’d put Gravity’s Rainbow, but it’s my favorite book (Sorry to be way later and much broader than originally indicated. We could always start a separate “What genre would you call that?” thread if people want to discuss and argue about this more at length.)
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 05:26 |
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That was super interesting, thank you!
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 07:04 |
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That was a good read, yeah. I do like you touching upon "reader expectations" because I never really linked that with genres specifically. It's the reason why so much fantasy seems to be formulaic as well: the reader signed up for a story about elves, dragons, possibly kings and queens. To market yourself as a fantasy story and then to not deliver on that is a waste of your reader's time, no matter how good your story is. Conversely, people who might like your story, dodge your book because they expect traditional fantasy poo poo and they have 0 interest in any of that world-saving magic nonsense.
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 13:40 |
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Deltasquid posted:That was a good read, yeah. I do like you touching upon "reader expectations" because I never really linked that with genres specifically. It's the reason why so much fantasy seems to be formulaic as well: the reader signed up for a story about elves, dragons, possibly kings and queens. To market yourself as a fantasy story and then to not deliver on that is a waste of your reader's time, no matter how good your story is. Conversely, people who might like your story, dodge your book because they expect traditional fantasy poo poo and they have 0 interest in any of that world-saving magic nonsense. You might want to go check the date on a newspaper, because if you're finding mostly Elves and Dragons on your fantasy shelves you may have traveled 20 years into the past. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 21, 2017 |
# ? Jun 21, 2017 17:10 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:You might want to go check the date on a newspaper, because if you're finding mostly Elves and Dragons on your fantasy shelves you may have traveled 20 years into the past. my expectation is now excel spreadsheets about the magic system
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 18:30 |
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anime was right posted:my expectation is now excel spreadsheets about the magic system What Wiz Zumalt could do with computers was magic on Earth. Then, one day the master computer hacker is called to a different world to help fight an evil known as the Black League. Suddenly, the Wiz finds himself in a place governed by magic--and in league with a red-headed witch who despises him.
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 19:07 |
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I love fantasy and I don't think I've read a single book with an elf. Dragons are cool though.
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 20:52 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:You might want to go check the date on a newspaper, because if you're finding mostly Elves and Dragons on your fantasy shelves you may have traveled 20 years into the past. I recently read Robin Hobb and although probably not an elf, the Fool (if that's his name in English?) is definitely similar enough to count. Spades of dragons though. EDIT: I may have been reading fantasy books written 20 years ago
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# ? Jun 23, 2017 17:26 |
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Deltasquid posted:I recently read Robin Hobb and although probably not an elf, the Fool (if that's his name in English?) is definitely similar enough to count. Hmmmmm a series that started in 1995....
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# ? Jun 23, 2017 21:28 |
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In my defence I did see a Belgian book called "the dragon queen" in a store recently. It was written in 2014. So maybe us belgians are just traditionalists. EDIT: Published in 2013 actually. But it's the first book in a trilogy! According to the description on goodreads, it's about an evil queen who uses magic to plant thoughts in her subjects' minds. In this tyrannical queendom, the people only look forward to a lethal competition that is organized whereby the contestants vie for the throne. Thus far, the Queen has won every single competition, but this time, her daughter unexpectedly registered to vie for the throne herself... Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jun 26, 2017 |
# ? Jun 24, 2017 13:37 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
Fukkin Isekai stories are a dime a dozen jeeze
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 02:20 |
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why did you need to use a japanese word for the thing
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 02:42 |
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Djeser posted:why did you need to use a japanese word for the thing Because Japanese is matched only by German in "single word to mean incredibly specific thing," and even then, the German would probably be something like hauptfiguranderetransportiertwerden.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 05:52 |
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Djeser posted:why did you need to use a japanese word for the thing i love anime
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 22:20 |
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After The War posted:Because Japanese is matched only by German in "single word to mean incredibly specific thing," and even then, the German would probably be something like hauptfiguranderetransportiertwerden. But "Fukkin Isekai" is two words????
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 00:17 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:But "Fukkin Isekai" is two words???? "Fukkin" is a prefix modifier , like "Neo-", "Post-", or "Sexy."
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 01:52 |
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borrowed words are only helpful if they're ubiquitous enough to convey the same meaning to lots of different people, otherwise you sound like that dumb "all according to keikaku" meme
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 07:01 |
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Sitting Here posted:borrowed words are only helpful if they're ubiquitous enough to convey the same meaning to lots of different people, otherwise you sound like that dumb "all according to keikaku" meme * "keikaku" means plan
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 07:33 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
I actually have no idea what the point of the Isekai post was. I was just posting this as a bad joke about computing wizards. But anyway, after posting it I decided I actually wanted to read it again, so I bought it on kindle.... Then yesterday I found the actual paperback in my basement :/ p.s. It cost more than a dime and I only got two of them p.p.s. The villain of this book is named Toth-Set-Ra. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jul 4, 2017 |
# ? Jul 4, 2017 10:20 |
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What do you guys do for printing manuscripts? I'm discovering that 40,000 words (which is just the first half) is really expensive to print out at like Kinko's at 10 cents a sheet. I feel like I get better responses from my beta readers when I give them a physical copy and tell them to go hog wild writing all over it if they want, but it's starting to be cost prohibitive. I haven't sold the book yet, I don't have $20 to print per copy! And as word of mouth gets around, other people are requesting copies. Do you guys print one manuscript and share with a group, letting them each take a turn with it? Do you just suck it up and figure it will pay for itself eventually? Am I getting ripped off and should explore other printing options? Do I just distribute digitally? (I've been really burned by digital copies before, where I sent out over a dozen PDFs to my usual readers and not a single person bothered to read it.)
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:30 |
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ExtraNoise posted:What do you guys do for printing manuscripts? I'm discovering that 40,000 words (which is just the first half) is really expensive to print out at like Kinko's at 10 cents a sheet. I have about five people who have read my first manuscript. Two of them are former copy editors, and so I have only bothered printing out physical copies for them, which wasn't super expensive on legal-sized paper, 1.5 spacing, regular margins, etc. If you are at the stage in the book where people could reasonably pick apart grammatical structure and spelling (which is the only reason you'd need a physical copy worth marking on), more than two or so people making suggestions on your writing is going to be at best, convoluted. It depends on your future goals, but if you're not intending to have your book published, people who want paper copies of your book should pay for them. You can self-publish on lulu.com, and they can pay the $3.40+shipping themselves. If they can't be arsed to do that, well, then they are the same people who can't be arsed to read a PDF. Sad, but you can only lead a horse to water.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:39 |
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Oh, right, gently caress. I also came here to ask a question. Speaking of FIRST MANUSCRIPT, I was going to start looking for an agent after I finish the second draft. I'm having an issue with query letters, and I am not sure if this is the right place for it. I am having some trouble figuring out the genre of this book, and therefore, which agencies/agents I should target. I understand the sci-fi market is highly saturated, and frankly, my book isn't in line with what most hardcore sci-fi readers would expect to be reading, either from a linguistic or plot standpoint. Also, from a really pedantic perspective, my book is technically "speculative fiction that happens to set in space". How would I explain this to an agency in a way that sounds less airy?
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:45 |
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cash crab posted:Oh, right, gently caress. I also came here to ask a question. Speaking of FIRST MANUSCRIPT, I was going to start looking for an agent after I finish the second draft. I'm having an issue with query letters, and I am not sure if this is the right place for it. I am having some trouble figuring out the genre of this book, and therefore, which agencies/agents I should target. I understand the sci-fi market is highly saturated, and frankly, my book isn't in line with what most hardcore sci-fi readers would expect to be reading, either from a linguistic or plot standpoint. Also, from a really pedantic perspective, my book is technically "speculative fiction that happens to set in space". How would I explain this to an agency in a way that sounds less airy? that distinction is ridiculously pointlessly pedantic and I'd recommend never saying it out loud.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:12 |
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"It's soft sci-fi focusing on plot and theme" or something. I don't know what your book actually focuses on or to be honest what it is that sci-fi readers want aside from a big ships that are guns in space
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:21 |
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what makes your book interesting and also different from every book in that market
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 08:37 |
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Query letters don't need to state what genre the book is. Just send your blurb. For agents, I am sure there are other books that are speculative fiction that just happen to be set in space. Read the acknowledgements, authors thank their agents. Look at "normal sci-fi" agents and then look at what books they have sold. See anything that looks kinda close to yours? Send the query. Sorry if you were hoping for magical keywords Check out Query Shark for tons of advice on writing query letters. With respect to printing, I'd you're looking at 5 copies at $20/each, you may as well start looking into buying your own printer.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:42 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:With respect to printing, I'd you're looking at 5 copies at $20/each, you may as well start looking into buying your own printer. Actually this is a great idea. B&W laser printers aren't too expensive these days. (I have an ink jet but trying to print out hundreds of pages on it seems like the worst idea.) I hadn't thought of this option. I think I will start saving my pennies.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 17:24 |
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ExtraNoise posted:Actually this is a great idea. B&W laser printers aren't too expensive these days. (I have an ink jet but trying to print out hundreds of pages on it seems like the worst idea.) Be sure to check how much the refills are -- my first laser printer was $80 and the refills were $60 On the other hand the refills did like 5k pages at least, so still waaaaaaay cheaper than kinkos.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 17:49 |
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cash crab posted:Oh, right, gently caress. I also came here to ask a question. Speaking of FIRST MANUSCRIPT, I was going to start looking for an agent after I finish the second draft. I'm having an issue with query letters, and I am not sure if this is the right place for it. I am having some trouble figuring out the genre of this book, and therefore, which agencies/agents I should target. I understand the sci-fi market is highly saturated, and frankly, my book isn't in line with what most hardcore sci-fi readers would expect to be reading, either from a linguistic or plot standpoint. Also, from a really pedantic perspective, my book is technically "speculative fiction that happens to set in space". How would I explain this to an agency in a way that sounds less airy? You could always try posting the query in here and see what genre people think it is based on your summarization. Note: this will only help if your summary is a decently accurate reflection of the book itself (which ideally it should be).
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 18:12 |
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Sorry if you were hoping for magical keywords No, I don't need anything really specific, but all the agencies I've looked at are pretty specific about people assigning genre with their queries. But thanks for the tip about the letters. Djeser posted:"It's soft sci-fi focusing on plot and theme" or something. I don't know what your book actually focuses on or to be honest what it is that sci-fi readers want aside from a big ships that are guns in space The reason I got so pedantic about the genre is because I've spent the last ten years or so in close contact with sci-fi writers and readers, and I know that they're like. In sci-fi, the science propels the story, therefore, Star Wars is technically space fantasy. But yeah, that's a good idea. Naerasa posted:You could always try posting the query in here and see what genre people think it is based on your summarization. Note: this will only help if your summary is a decently accurate reflection of the book itself (which ideally it should be). I will do this, when I actually finish it. Thank you.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 18:20 |
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cash crab posted:No, I don't need anything really specific, but all the agencies I've looked at are pretty specific about people assigning genre with their queries. But thanks for the tip about the letters. Yeaaaaah, looking at samples again, this does look like standard practice. Good job me. Maybe try: THE BEST BOOK is an 85,000 word speculative fiction novel set in space. Though I guess that would be obvious from the query. ---- Can confirm that the Sci Fi community cares deeply about the purity of the term Sci Fi. Surely someone has made a big list of other genres people should be calling things instead? Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 21, 2017 |
# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:06 |
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No, that could probably work. I'll look around. Also:ExtraNoise posted:Do you guys print one manuscript and share with a group, letting them each take a turn with it? I was just thinking, this could be a pretty good solution to your problem. In addition to getting your own printer, you could probably cut costs by having just a few people test read it at a time and circulate those copies, presuming they don't get marked up.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:45 |
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cash crab posted:No, that could probably work. I'll look around. Also: If you do this, I suggest you pay the extra to get it spiral bound, because passing a manuscript between 5 people with just a butterfly clip seems like asking for trouble. Plus the spiral binding makes it feel fancy.
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# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:48 |
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Anybody who cares about Genre Purity is probably a dweeb you should ignore
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# ? Jul 22, 2017 04:38 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 08:12 |
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I hope my gf believes me when I say that my browser history is now full of "babycenter.com" visits because I was trying to come up with accurate names from the 1930s. This could get awkward. I should probably start doing my research in a private window, right? EDIT - Turns out the Social Security Administration has a less creepy site for looking up popular names. After The War fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 22, 2017 |
# ? Jul 22, 2017 23:39 |