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Oxyclean posted:Isn't there supposed to be xp awarded for participation now? Not participation, according to the patch notes: quote:Class/Job EXP gained from participating in PvP encounters has been adjusted to take match durations into account.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:46
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Which sections drop the chest pieces?
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Jul 4, 2017 12:47
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Adept Nightingale posted:This absolutely blows and is a really wrongheaded approach. Disappointed, but not really surprised-- they're probably going to continue in this vein until PVP gets back to its HW levels of irrelevance. I'm sorry that you get slightly less exp for AFKing
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Jul 4, 2017 12:48
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Freak Futanari posted:I'm sorry that you get slightly less exp for AFKing Yes, that is definitely what I said, you got me good If you don't care, fine, but what's your problem?
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Jul 4, 2017 12:51
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Freak Futanari posted:I'm sorry that you get slightly less exp for AFKing You're just assuming everyone AFK'd in PVP.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:54
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The Frontlines exp change was good, since it might convince at least a few more people to actually try playing the game instead of "guarding the base"
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Jul 4, 2017 12:55
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Freak Futanari posted:I'm sorry that you get slightly less exp for AFKing This isn't going to deter anyone who was AFKing before. Two teams have to lose every match, and most of the time it's entirely independent of the input of any of the individual players who randomly wound up there. Maybe you didn't play Frontlines in Heavensward, but as it exists now is always how it has been. Undirected chaos that winds up with you winning roughly 33% of the time for no discernible reason. It's a lovely game mode temporarily buoyed by its function as a relief valve for DPS leveling by pure virtue of being less awful than POTD.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:56
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Freak Futanari posted:I'm sorry that you get slightly less exp for AFKing Funny, but people AFKing are basically unaffected (who cares if they have to AFK another hour to the next level), unlike those who'd actually want to try and win, but happen to end up in groups with more AFKers than the other guys or against premades or whatnot. You're in a group of 24, even if you're a PvP super hero, whether your team wins or loses is not often up to you. It's not the end of the world or anything, but it's still a stupid design decision.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:57
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Freak Futanari posted:The Frontlines exp change was good, since it might convince at least a few more people to actually try playing the game instead of "guarding the base" It wont. So what. They have to AFK one more episode of whatever Netflix show they are watching to achieve the same goal. PVP is still good exp and fun to do if you like that sort of thing. I don't think anybody expected them to get rid of the AFK problem.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:57
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Shere posted:This isn't going to deter anyone who was AFKing before. Two teams have to lose every match, and most of the time it's entirely independent of the input of any of the individual players who randomly wound up there. I actually played a lot of Frontlines in Heavensward, and while it wasn't possible to win every single match there either, there were a LOT less people who treated it as Get Experience For Alt-Tabbing Out To Watch Netflix. Making PVP straight up the best levelling option for DPS players, while also giving the same reward if you win or lose, was a great recipe for really messing up Frontlines, since suddenly there were a lot less people bothering to play healers (because everyone wants to level their DPS), while also offering no incentive whatsoever to even participate beyond joining the match and then idling. It still gives decent exp, but it now actually gives you an incentive to play it. And if having rewards decided by team effort is a deal-breaker for some people, then maybe PVP isn't something they'd enjoy in the first place?
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Jul 4, 2017 13:01
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Freak Futanari posted:I actually played a lot of Frontlines in Heavensward, and while it wasn't possible to win every single match there either, there were a LOT less people who treated it as Get Experience For Alt-Tabbing Out To Watch Netflix. Making PVP straight up the best levelling option for DPS players, while also giving the same reward if you win or lose, was a great recipe for really messing up Frontlines, since suddenly there were a lot less people bothering to play healers (because everyone wants to level their DPS), while also offering no incentive whatsoever to even participate beyond joining the match and then idling. Having rewards decided by individual effort would make a lot more sense to fulfilling that stated goal, is more my feeling, and a change I wouldn't have a problem with. I don't really like nerfs that hit things out of my control.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:04
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Adept Nightingale posted:Having rewards decided by individual effort would make a lot more sense to fulfilling that stated goal, is more my feeling, and a change I wouldn't have a problem with. I don't really like nerfs that hit things out of my control. What's the difference between queuing for PvP, getting a bad team, and losing, versus queuing for something like Trials Roulette, getting a bad group, and disbanding after several wipes? Other than the fact that PvP still gives you exp for losing, just a little less, i mean.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:06
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The bad trial roulette situation is pretty rare, and losing in rando PVP groups happens about 2/3rds of the time? These aren't equivalent situations.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:07
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ilifinicus posted:they don't want tanks to do more damage than DPS jobs They'll be hard pressed to make anyone do less damage than the numerous bad DPS players short of taking a hammer to their fingers.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:07
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Bonfire Lit posted:We got one pedal and two bolts off V1. No, that chart is what order in which to take loot for "optimum" results. This is what you're looking for, a table of what drops where. Also goon-made. 
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Jul 4, 2017 13:08
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Adept Nightingale posted:The bad trial roulette situation is pretty rare, and losing in rando PVP groups happens about 2/3rds of the time? The point is that FFXIV is primarily based around group content, and group success has usually been what decides the rewards in that content. It feels weird to expect PvP to be the exception to that
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Jul 4, 2017 13:11
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I did a trial roulette this morning as lv67 pld. Got lakshmi, because of course I did. Both healers died as soon as the fight started (???), me and the rdm healed 80% of the fight, while he also spammed raise on people. It was a fun experience. Took forever too, there's no enrage and people kept getting killed all the time by dumbass mistakes.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:12
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Freak Futanari posted:The point is that FFXIV is primarily based around group content, and group success has usually been what decides the rewards in that content. It feels weird to expect PvP to be the exception to that In PvE you're not competing with other people also trying to win the same fight, while group composition is largely out of your control. Freak Futanari posted:I actually played a lot of Frontlines in Heavensward, and while it wasn't possible to win every single match there either, there were a LOT less people who treated it as Get Experience For Alt-Tabbing Out To Watch Netflix. Making PVP straight up the best levelling option for DPS players, while also giving the same reward if you win or lose, was a great recipe for really messing up Frontlines, since suddenly there were a lot less people bothering to play healers (because everyone wants to level their DPS), while also offering no incentive whatsoever to even participate beyond joining the match and then idling. Good news. The XP change solves absolutely none of your issues 
orcane fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 13:12
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orcane posted:Good news. The XP change solves absolutely none of your issues tbh it'll probably return all the bad players to potd.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:13
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e: nvm lmao
Minera fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 13:18
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Freak Futanari posted:I actually played a lot of Frontlines in Heavensward, and while it wasn't possible to win every single match there either, there were a LOT less people who treated it as Get Experience For Alt-Tabbing Out To Watch Netflix. Making PVP straight up the best levelling option for DPS players, while also giving the same reward if you win or lose, was a great recipe for really messing up Frontlines, since suddenly there were a lot less people bothering to play healers (because everyone wants to level their DPS), while also offering no incentive whatsoever to even participate beyond joining the match and then idling. All great points except: 1) I don't care how good or bad an experience it is, pre-Stormblood frontlines taking 40 minutes to queue into a game with 24 people in it was a far more dire issue than people allegedly idling or not caring. 2)There was nothing to "mess up" since what existed before was the same thing, but worse. 3) They didn't address the DPS:Healer balance with this at all. It's still the best-but-now-slightly-worse way to level any class. 4) No matter what you do, there's now 48 losers per match. Odds are not in your favor no matter how many of your teammates are catching up on Netflix. This wasn't a solution for the players, it's the result of yowling pubbies and PVP purists trying to comb through the decade+ storied chaos of battlegrounds-style MMO PVP to find some sort of input:output correlation. It's not there.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:18
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SonicRulez posted:The Good: Losing the token to the shittiest pubbie in the group for the 10nth time this week builds character.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:23
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SonicRulez posted:Aw nuts. I liked my big damage. It was affected by slashing, but not the trait. The change is pretty much a wash.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:24
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Obligatum VII posted:Losing the token to the shittiest pubbie in the group for the 10nth time this week builds character. Queue with friends hth
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Jul 4, 2017 13:26
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Shere posted:All great points except: 1: I'd rather have a longer queue and smaller teams if it means that the people playing are playing because they enjoy PvP, and not because it's the best exp per hour and they want to powerlevel. 2: That's subjective, personally i think PvP was better before SB. It's still decent, but they made some really weird design decisions when redoing it. 3: With more incentive to win, people might be more inclined to at least temporarily play healer just to improve their team's chances, and instead switch to the class they want to level before the match ends. 4: Yes, and the losers still get rewarded, just slightly less so. Just like how it has always been with Wolf Marks and PvP Exp.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:26
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7 minute tank queue for ldr, dead game
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Jul 4, 2017 13:27
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Finally got a 3rd place finish. Here are my final numbers. At 59: 3,888,000 to level First place 302300 Second place 216000 Third place 216000 Yes, it seems 2nd and 3rd are the same and I believe are the same or maybe slightly less than before the patch. So its not as bad as I thought. EDIT: Just got a Draw and still got 1st place exp. Givin fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 13:28
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Minrad posted:7 minute tank queue for ldr, dead game With healers having to actually pay a bit of attention in SB content, slight tank queues are probably going to start being a thing every now and then. I've seen tons of healers in DF exdr runs during HW who'd just sit there and spam cure 1/physick on everything including big pulls and it worked way too well.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:31
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Kettlepip posted:One of the problems, and it's the same everywhere, is once you've got your 310 set/s, there's no current reason to run expert roulette. It'll get a bit better as soon as the new tome goes in. Well... the EXDR dungeons do throw materia at you and if you're lucky, it's rank 6s. So there's that at least.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:35
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Freak Futanari posted:2: That's subjective, personally i think PvP was better before SB. It's still decent, but they made some really weird design decisions when redoing it.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:51
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Asimo posted:Why? When simplifying the PvP battle system, they removed a lot of class utility and tactical options in favor of one-button combos. Some jobs suffered more heavily from this than others, but nearly every class lost a lot depth and complexity. And that was the good kind of complexity, where you had a lot of options for approaching different situations and a lot of interesting PvP-exclusive tools to use. It's now a lot less hectic in terms of execution, and probably a lot more beginner-friendly, but it also reduces the gameplay to just gathering into a murderball, marking a target, and then having everyone mash their attack button.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:56
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I used to not AFK in PVP but now that I'm almost guaranteed to get less exp 66% of the time I might as well afk.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:06
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I'm glad they'll roll the one button per combo thing into pve in the next expansion.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:06
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Truga posted:I'm glad they'll roll the one button per combo thing into pve in the next expansion. I played Bard in HW, be careful what you wish for (Bard owns in SB)
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Jul 4, 2017 14:09
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Freak Futanari posted:When simplifying the PvP battle system, they removed a lot of class utility and tactical options in favor of one-button combos. Some jobs suffered more heavily from this than others, but nearly every class lost a lot depth and complexity. And that was the good kind of complexity, where you had a lot of options for approaching different situations and a lot of interesting PvP-exclusive tools to use. It's now a lot less hectic in terms of execution, and probably a lot more beginner-friendly, but it also reduces the gameplay to just gathering into a murderball, marking a target, and then having everyone mash their attack button. Stormblood PVP is faster, more accessible, has fronts that actually move, and has kills actually be a deciding factor in Shatter for once. All you lose is not having another dozen buttons to juggle. This is good. Also, Cao Ni Ma posted:I used to not AFK in PVP but now that I'm almost guaranteed to get less exp 66% of the time I might as well afk. Truga posted:I'm glad they'll roll the one button per combo thing into pve in the next expansion.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:13
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Truga posted:I'm glad they'll roll the one button per combo thing into pve in the next expansion. For Monks, the indignities never end Asimo posted:Buuuuullshit. Having the full suite of PVE abilities in PVP was a mess, since shock of shocks having tanks and healers set up with multiple cooldowns and options made for an intolerable goddamn slog. Let alone having a bunch of extra PVP cooldowns on top of your three hotbars filled with your PVE abilities. This is not good complexity! The only people it was better for was premades on voice chat stomping people who couldn't coordinate as well. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit, the old PvP style was way better, because you had to actually think about what you were doing and which skills and cooldowns you used, instead of mashing the autocombo button until either you or the other guy mashing his own autocombo button keels over dead. The only people new PvP is better for is people who somehow failed to grasp that MMOs, in fact, sometimes expect you to press several - and sometimes even many! - buttons Freak Futanari fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 14:14
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The Raid was extremely good.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:17
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Monks are the only class where combos are actually meaningful.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:17
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Freak Futanari posted:gathering into a murderball, marking a target, and then having everyone mash their attack button. So literally the same as it was before then
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Jul 4, 2017 14:21
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Asimo posted:Unironically agreed. The game would be a lot better if it was designed and balanced closer to the current PVP design. Although realistically you'd probably want to add a few cooldowns and similar things back in to allow for more varied encounter design with tankbusters, burn phases, and such that PVP doesn't really have equivalents for. TBH I don't mind having 3000 buttons to press, I just think the main rotation combo thing shouldn't be more than a few buttons (which is why I play BLM when I DPS, where I push 2-3 GCD buttons during fire phase and 3 during ice phase).
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Jul 4, 2017 14:29
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