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Corrode posted:Whose army is it? How would you handle it, then? A lot of people, myself included, are having trouble with fast melee armies. Hard to kill enough, especially if they get first turn. And this ork army will get first turn since it has a really low deployment count because of the battle wagons. The opponent is in your deployment zone turn 2 so there's not much room to fall back or to have a second line unengaged to shoot once the first rank falls back. People just keep brushing it off and saying we're bad, when floods of people all over the place are talking about how their melee.horde armies are undefeated and precious few are giving examples of how they've beaten them in 8th, just theorycrafting how they would beat them without having played against it.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:39
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Flyers are really, really good against horde armies. A couple Stormtalons will do some seriously heavy lifting against Orks in particular. Basically in my experience it's all about using a combination of screening units for your backfield and fast flankers (EG Stormtalons) to split stuff up. No, you can't kill enough Orks to survive 90 boys hitting your any at once- that's why you have to use your own mobility. E: I'm also thinking a Knight will be pretty strong with it's Titanic feet and ability to withdraw from combat and charge something on the other side. Pendent fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 18:00
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Pendent posted:Flyers are really, really good against horde armies. A couple Stormtalons will do some seriously heavy lifting against Orks in particular. Yeah I think flyers might really be a solid option. Orks REALLY struggle to take them on since their shooting is poor and there are only a few units (Stormboyz and Deffkotpas) that can engage them in assault.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:05
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Pendent posted:Flyers are really, really good against horde armies. A couple Stormtalons will do some seriously heavy lifting against Orks in particular. I agree that flyers are good, having to rely on them just feels like a bit of a crutch. And the thing with trying to use mobility is I never feel like there's a real flank. I always feel boxed in because there's models going from one end of the table to the other. The ork list at least has focal points because of the battle wagons.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:15
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yeah I think flyers might really be a solid option. Orks REALLY struggle to take them on since their shooting is poor and there are only a few units (Stormboyz and Deffkotpas) that can engage them in assault. It ends up being a little dumb, honestly. In my Ork game my two Stormtalons armed with Typhoon launchers ended up killing the vast majority of my opponents 90ish boyz by by themselves and he had a really hard time dealing with them. I think we talked about this in the thread back when I played the game but lootas seemed like they'd be one of the better options for anti flyer work.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:15
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Lobster God posted:Can anyone recommend a decent load out for a jump pack Death Company squad? Major Spag posted:General consensus is to go with Fists or Thunder hammers. No reason not to do Thunderhammers at all but fists let you at least have some shooty too. Axes are okay but you're hurting against high toughness models at that point (but for 5 points, it's super cheap). Chainswords help because you have 2 attacks and can get that extra chainsword attack in there for 3 base attacks (2 from sword, 1 from fist) to 4 total without buffs. See, I'm going to disagree here. When you're putting together a unit that large (and you want numbers here, Black Rage or no) then giving everyone a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer is going to break your bank point's wise. Have one or two big guy killers mixed in, sure. But your default load-out should probably be Bolt Pistol and Power Axe. Pretty much only buildings have T9-10 so T8 is what you'll be attacking worst case most of the time. S5 gets you 5+ to wound everything from Raiders to Imperial Knights, and as long as you've got lots of attacks that will shave off a ton of wounds. More to the point, it will also let you run right over anything that doesn't have stupid high Toughness without overkilling. You're paying 20 points for a penalty to hit and either d3 or 3 Damage. If you run that unit into a mob of infantry all that extra Damage is wasted, and the penalty to hit is going to hurt. I'd recommend something like: 15 Death Company Marines with Jump Packs - 300pts -12 with Bolt Pistol and Power Axe - 48pts -3 with Thunder Hammers - 60pts Total: 408pts That's still a huge amount of points for one unit, and this is the discount version! TKIY posted:Some guy just went 5-0 in a UK GT with this list: My brother keeps threatening to run this kind of list and having given it some thought it occurs to me that the solution is Snipers. If you can kill the Beastmasters, the Razorwings drop to LD4. So some Ratlings, Scouts, or Vindicare Assassins picking off the Beastmasters will let the rest of your army pour fire into the flocks and force Morale checks to clear out the rest of them.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:50
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jng2058 posted:See, I'm going to disagree here. When you're putting together a unit that large (and you want numbers here, Black Rage or no) then giving everyone a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer is going to break your bank point's wise. Have one or two big guy killers mixed in, sure. But your default load-out should probably be Bolt Pistol and Power Axe. Pretty much only buildings have T9-10 so T8 is what you'll be attacking worst case most of the time. S5 gets you 5+ to wound everything from Raiders to Imperial Knights, and as long as you've got lots of attacks that will shave off a ton of wounds. More to the point, it will also let you run right over anything that doesn't have stupid high Toughness without overkilling. You're paying 20 points for a penalty to hit and either d3 or 3 Damage. If you run that unit into a mob of infantry all that extra Damage is wasted, and the penalty to hit is going to hurt. My personal though on death company is either keep them cheap and use them for controlling hordes or don't bother running them at all. They're even more fragile than they were in 7th with only a 6+ fnp and can't get an invuln outside of having a buffing librarian. Company Veterans with jump packs are the new hotness for Blood Angels. Lots of loadout options and they can take storm shields.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:59
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Testing out base color schemes for my biglys and nurgle. Think I settled on Exorcist for my Marines and I really like the bone color for Nurgle. 
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Jul 4, 2017 19:02
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So I have a great use for ratlings. A squad of them plus a few sentinels can really cut down on deep strike shenanigans. Infantry guard can really saturate their deployment zone and on some maps you can deny a lot of area with a scout move and late setup outside your zone, at least for turn 1 charges
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Jul 4, 2017 19:37
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Working on the Minotaur "Ogryns" today before the usual 4th festivities. These are a bitch. I have to cut down the "A" version of a grenade gauntlet, and then trim down the minotaur's forearm to fit inside. I slabbed some green stuff on it, I figure I'll make them look grafted. The shield was fairly easy- going to use leftover plates from vehicles, and some hose bits for the strap. 1 down, 3 to go.  
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Jul 4, 2017 20:01
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Those Ogryn look good, gives me a real Doom Cyberdemon vibe. Can't wait to see your army at Nova! I've been meaning to take more pictures of my stuff; kinda dropped off once I stopped doing oaths. Here's some Deathwatch Termies I've been working on:   
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Jul 4, 2017 20:06
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Because they go in Battlewagons... Oh duh,was thinking it was the Ard Case that dropped it to 12 transport, it's the kannon, whoops!
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Jul 4, 2017 20:09
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chutche2 posted:How would you handle it, then? Fyi I'm not ignoring this, just haven't had chance to write a detailed response. MasterSlowPoke posted:Those Ogryn look good, gives me a real Doom Cyberdemon vibe. Can't wait to see your army at Nova! These are fuckin sweet my dude.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Ynnari leaders all come together as a set as well. $90 for two loving marines GW your hubris has reached a new level
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Jul 4, 2017 20:36
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Zaphod42 posted:$90 for two loving marines But they are so big.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:40
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Thanks for the thoughts all! Will have a careful look and price things up when my Index finally arrives. Am planning a small-ish jump pack based army (partly because I've always wanted to and 8th gave me an excuse!). I love the concept/ models for the Death Company so will definitely be bringing some!
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Jul 4, 2017 20:45
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90 dollars jesus christ.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:02
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At least with Yrvaine you can only really field one of those because she's a named character right? But Primaris Captain and Primaris Librarian are models you're going to theoretically want several of. This combined with people already not being crazy about mixed-scale armies means GW is really trying to hit our wallets even harder than they have before. But I don't play SMs anymore so I guess getting you guys to pay for the fact that you get all the best rules is kismet 
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Jul 4, 2017 21:14
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Goonpocalypse date change guys. It is now going to be 9th September. I have booked some tables, could I just get everyone to check in with the Goonmeet thread, thanks.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:16
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Eifert Posting posted:90 dollars jesus christ. Granted that's in Canadollars. Still though 70 Ameribucks is a loving joke.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:21
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theironjef posted:Granted that's in Canadollars. Still though 70 Ameribucks is a loving joke. Ah I missed he linked the CA shop  70 is better but still too much for non-character models
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Jul 4, 2017 21:27
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lol when I first saw it I thought it was 45 for both, how loving naive I was
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Jul 4, 2017 21:33
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Those Ogryn look good, gives me a real Doom Cyberdemon vibe. Can't wait to see your army at Nova! One day I'll edge highlight black armor this well.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:16
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LingcodKilla posted:Testing out base color schemes for my biglys and nurgle. I did some color correction, the original photo seems to be under yellow light:  Looks good! Any plans for the eyes and the weapons?
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Jul 4, 2017 22:21
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Zaphod42 posted:Ah I missed he linked the CA shop I probably should have pointed out my Canadianness. Both the Ynnari leaders and Primaris Heroes do not cost 90 American. But the Ynnari are still by far the better deal.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:29
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Post 9-11 User posted:I did some color correction, the original photo seems to be under yellow light: Well thank you that was very kind. Yeah I was just working on the big areas to see what looked good. I think the eyes are going to be green for both. The loyalists gonna get black guns with metal and the chaos is gonna get all metal with rusted out stuff. Red Gore was too strong of a contrast over the scarlet so I went over it with a think coat of scarlet and it blended nicely.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:48
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Monopose models are also a lot less disappointing if they're weird flying eldar gods or at least doing something interesting, rather than a space marine pointing a power sword. There are a hell of a lot of non-monopose marine kits that will let you make a guy pointing a sword.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:54
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TKIY posted:149 Razorwing flocks xtothez posted:Now I feel guilty. For the game I have arranged tonight my gimmicky list is a swarm of ~150 bodies with a bunch of Broodlords, Primes & Malanthropes to steer them around. After getting pasted by mass lascannons last week I'm kinda looking forward to any heavy weapons having nothing but gaunts to shoot at. So it turns out Tyranid swarms are also pretty effective! My opponent did manage to wipe out all of the combined 70 hormagaunts / genestealers, but by then all the characters were in his deployment zone forcing units to constantly fall back. The highlight of the game was when a Daemon Prince charged to finish off the last two genestealers left of a brood, only to totally whiff his attacks and end up getting caught by a Broodlord which killed the prince outright on the charge. Broodlords just tore poo poo up. The game finished something like 15-5 on VPs as the termagants across the centre of the board were largely untouched and could claim nearly all of the objectives at will. 
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Jul 4, 2017 23:07
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FiestaNinja posted:Monopose models are also a lot less disappointing if they're weird flying eldar gods or at least doing something interesting, rather than a space marine pointing a power sword. There are a hell of a lot of non-monopose marine kits that will let you make a guy pointing a sword. Yeah that's a fair point. Ahriman is monopose but that's fine because he's got all kinds of warpflame coming out of his hands like he's casting crazy psyker magic, couldn't really have it any other way. But dude pointing sword, we've got more of those than we know what to do with.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:14
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I played 2000 points a game today of my mostly Thousand Sons chaos mixed bag list against Tau. It was my 4th game of 40k. My bad list, since I don't have some stuff I want yet: Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment -Magnus Battalion Detachment -The Changeling -Demon Prince w/ Wings (thousand sons/tzeentch) -Exalted Sorcerer on Disc -10 Rubric Marines (2 flamer, 1 soul cannon, icon) -10 Tzaangors -10 Blue Horrors (enough points leftover for brimstone replacements) -7 Deathguard Plaguemarines (guys from the box) -Helbrute (twin lascannon, power scourge) -Rhino (w/ the havoc launcher) -5 Scarab Terminators (+soul cannon, hellfire missiles) his list: i don't know for sure and I was kinda miffed about how unclear he was about it. All I know for sure is that he had 7 total command points with two Outrider detachments and two other detachments. The Outrider detachments were just full of drones, such that he had 72 drones on the table. He had a handful of character suits that could jet around real fast and ignore penalties for advances. It was the Maelstrom darkness mission and I lost 17-15 on points. I scored a lot of early points since he just sat in his bubble and shot me while I got objectives but I couldn't get past the drone bubblewrap on the right side of the field and everything eventually died enough that he could freely move around. It didn't feel lopsided and I made boneheaded new player mistakes, but I might have just quit the game earlier if not for my early high scoring. It was a pretty unfun list to play against. The drones were all unpainted and not based, so it looked dumb as hell too. He also did not understand the rules for cover and consolidations after combat but fortunately it didn't matter much.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:38
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question about combat consolidations: You consolidate 3" after your unit fights, then combat continues right? My opponent insisted he could consolidate after all the fights happen, so that he gets within 1" of my Rubric Marines that weren't charged and the Rubrics don't get to fight back. I'm like 90% sure he was wrong but he insisted and I didn't care much since I could and did smite them off the table before shooting anyway. I'm liking 40k but I've never had so many weird rules disputes in other minis games.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:47
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Danimo posted:question about combat consolidations: After double-checking this it turns out I've been playing this wrong for the last few games. We've been making consolidate moves at the end of the fight phase, rather than after each unit activates & fights. In fact you're right; if you consolidate into another unit then that unit will get a 'free' activation to fight you that turn, which I guess is a nice compensation for not getting overwatch.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:11
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Kicked off a narrative league using 8th here in town. Huge response, 24 players signed up in a day and we are all crammed in a bar eating chicken wings and hamming. 8th certainly has issues but it's sure bringing people back to the game.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:19
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One of my issues with 8th edition is how everything fits into the same bland mold of "blob of small things accompanied by an upgraded small thing who gives them +1 to-hit and/or re-rolling hits while within six inches" Army-wide special rules tend to be situational at best and completely worthless at worst with the most offensive example of the latter being how Chaos Space Marines rarely get an extra attack only if they're up against an Imperial army while the Space Marines are more points-efficient in basically every single way and can re-roll morale checks that they'll likely be passing in the first place They did a fine job of homogenizing everything and making all sorts of formerly useless units useful again to the point that there isn't a single army that feels painful to play as but at the same time a lot of the old character is gone and I'm just really hoping that the proper codex releases are going to restore some color to the game
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Jul 5, 2017 00:26
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I'm super upset about the dropping of Traitor Legions rules and the awesome old psyker system and while they seem to be hinting that they'll restore both of those things I have a good feeling that I'm going to have to wait through a year or two for Games Workshop to get the usual pablum of Venerable Primaris Fastblade Deathmissile Striketeam and Venerable Primaris Killbeam Plasmastorm Megalauncher and Venerable Primaris Killmaster Landraider out of their system before we see something with actual personality
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Jul 5, 2017 00:33
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goose willis posted:I'm super upset about the dropping of Traitor Legions rules and the awesome old psyker system and while they seem to be hinting that they'll restore both of those things I have a good feeling that I'm going to have to wait through a year or two for Games Workshop to get the usual pablum of Venerable Primaris Fastblade Deathmissile Striketeam and Venerable Primaris Killbeam Plasmastorm Megalauncher and Venerable Primaris Killmaster Landraider out of their system before we see something with actual personality While I am sad about losing traitor legions, I can't say I miss the psyker phase at all. The game has some issues, and a few of them are bad but it is still so much better than 7th. Hopefully they'll release books quickly, I mean AOS did them pretty fast and it was a way less popular system than 40k.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:35
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I would fight that razorwing army with nothing but Blood Claws, the way Russel intended.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:36
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Black_Nexus posted:While I am sad about losing traitor legions, I can't say I miss the psyker phase at all. The old psyker phase was tedious I suppose but the main draw for me were all these RPG-style psyker schools and the ability to pick between multiple types of magic and the risk of rolling powers you don't want or getting lucky and having some truly awesome poo poo Sure you're gonna get power-gaming gently caress-asses that whine about not being able to pick their powers but it was one of those unpredictable things that made you change your play-style on the fly and adapt to the unexpected
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Jul 5, 2017 00:39
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goose willis posted:The old psyker phase was tedious I suppose but the main draw for me were all these RPG-style psyker schools and the ability to pick between multiple types of magic and the risk of rolling powers you don't want or getting lucky and having some truly awesome poo poo Counterpoint: this was the worst thing about Psykers. A single dice roll determining whether that single model that could be up to 10% of your entire army was going to be useful or useless is lovely and dumb. Random powers was, and still is, stupid.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:41
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I think eliminating the 6th/7th clusterfuck that was the old psychic rules was arguably the best change between them and 8th edition. It was a complete trainwreck.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:44
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