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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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WampaLord posted:says man in country lead by President Donald Trump. There's a definite logic behind why you have President Donald Trump though.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:38
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Cerebral Bore posted:There's a definite logic behind why you have President Donalt Trump though. In theory, in a logical world, the GOP would have stopped his campaign during the primary, but in our world they were too incompetent/cowardly to do so.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:39
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It can be explained why they were too weak and cowardly. But once again, that in no way implies the status quo should be seen as immutable.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:43
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WampaLord posted:says man in country lead by President Donald Trump. I expected Trump to win, not because I liked him but he is the culmination of a sickness in the American political system that has only gotten worse. Admittedly I am fatalistic about our current course, but to be honest, I think it is a bad system that leads to bad results, and I simply think it is salvageable. However, we aren't the first country with a system that couldn't be fixed from within itself. As what to do, that is comparatively unclear but our current situation isn't.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:48
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WampaLord posted:In theory, in a logical world, the GOP would have stopped his campaign during the primary, but in our world they were too incompetent/cowardly to do so. I dunno, I think Republicans, and politicians in general, being cowards is something that we can logically assume. The number one priority for most political actors is survival. Trump's base of support made the GOP leaders fear for their survival, particularly if they "rigged" the election against them. The lesson there for the left is pretty clear.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:54
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WampaLord posted:In theory, in a logical world, the GOP would have stopped his campaign during the primary, but in our world they were too incompetent/cowardly to do so. Yeah, see, now you're assuming that the world we're talking about would be good and logical instead of bad and logical.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:14
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Hey guys, Cory Booker 'paused' taking bribes from big pharma. HOW INSPIRING!!!  At least it shows socialist activism from the likes of OurRevolution & JusticeDemocrats is working.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:21
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Also, Cory Booker is an irredeemable, two-faced piece of poo poo no matter what he does; especially in relation to other potential 2020 candidates. Please don't fall for the obvious bait he's putting out there.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:26
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Avirosb posted:If you seek enlightenment then surely you'd be better off avoiding internet armchair discussions about politics, Actually, according to a teacher Alan Watts knew, any writing can be used to teach Zen.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:57
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readingatwork posted:Bad voting didn't get us here. It was the Supreme Court deciding in the 70s that money=speech. Once bribery became legal your vote meant precisely dick. Meanwhile in reality trump ran his campaign on a shoestring budget and was outspent a billion to one. Wow!!!
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Jul 4, 2017 22:56
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WampaLord posted:In theory, in a logical world, the GOP would have stopped his campaign during the primary, but in our world they were too incompetent/cowardly to do so. Lol. A logic master here fellas, watch out for the fedora!
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Jul 4, 2017 23:05
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RedSpider posted:Also, Cory Booker is an irredeemable, two-faced piece of poo poo no matter what he does; especially in relation to other potential 2020 candidates. Please don't fall for the obvious bait he's putting out there. Cory Booker is not going to be on the ballot for 2020. Cory Booker, being from NJ is also not going to go against NJ's high paying high earning Pharma industry.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:16
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Meanwhile in reality trump ran his campaign on a shoestring budget and was outspent a billion to one. Wow!!! It wasn't exactly a shoestring, unless over half a billion dollars is chump change to you. Also I'm not sure Hillary outspent him a billion to one because I think we would have noticed if she spent hundreds of times more money on her campaign than actually exists in the world. And did his campaign translate into policies the voters want? The median voter doesn't want to cut a trillion dollars from Medicaid to give the 400 richest Americans a tax cut, and yet... VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 23:27
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I love that people (and a TYT section) are asking why the Republicans aren't pushing hard for Trump's impeachment. Don't they realise he makes them look bad!? It might be because the Democrats and establishment followers never did tie Trump fast to the Republicans. People are acting like he's this lone entity with all the horribleness exuding from him and just getting rid of him will make things better. Of course they're not going to impeach him. He's perfect cover for poo poo they'd be doing anyway.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:11
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Impeachment would be the perfect political cover for corporate Democrats, because then they could help Pence destroy the safety net in the spirit of bipartisanship because he's respectful and polite and smiles a lot and conducts himself with decorum. And they'd fund the wall too because he'd ask nicely and use the right national security dogwhistles.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:17
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VitalSigns posted:Impeachment would be the perfect political cover for corporate Democrats, because then they could help Pence destroy the safety net in the spirit of bipartisanship because he's respectful and polite and smiles a lot and conducts himself with decorum. And they'd fund the wall too because he'd ask nicely and use the right national security dogwhistles.  edit gently caress forgot which thread I was in, response stands but is slightly less effective than screaming fruitlessly into the void
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Jul 5, 2017 02:19
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Probably one of the only good things about Trumps election is that he was like a bottle of smelling salts to alot of people. There are so many more engaged in politics now that weren't before. So many more people paying attention to the poo poo that's been going on with both parties.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:22
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Kokoro Wish posted:Probably one of the only good things about Trumps election is that he was like a bottle of smelling salts to alot of people. There are so many more engaged in politics now that weren't before. So many more people paying attention to the poo poo that's been going on with both parties. Yup. Dem voters are slowly but surely realize that they need to do what the Tea Party did to the GOP: make them more afraid of their base than of the other side.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:40
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rudatron posted:The BLM people who gate crashed sander's speech, is like the textbook example of parasitic douchebags using activism to benefit themselves. The BLM who crashed Sanders speech are idiots. "Oh, we weren't welcomed at the Sander's event we crashed! They didn't want us to take the mic!" Yeah no poo poo. No one likes their event crashed. Sanders handled it far better than most would. They probably could have just asked to speak by showing up earlier to the event, and judging by Sanders reaction, he may have let them. The BLM women never mentioned trying to contact Sanders' organizers before or on the day of the event. Willie Tomg posted:there is literally video of the event showing none of this happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rSbLzWayQ Said event with commentary by Killer Mike. Deadly Ham Sandwich fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 02:58
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Yes I'm sure if black people just asked nicely someone would have done something about their situation by now.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:07
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VitalSigns posted:Yes I'm sure if black people just asked nicely someone would have done something about their situation by now. This is a terrific response to something nobody ITT said.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:12
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VitalSigns posted:Yes I'm sure if black people just asked nicely someone would have done something about their situation by now. This is a bad post right here.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:13
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The BLM who crashed Sanders speech are idiots. "Oh, we weren't welcomed at the Sander's event we crashed! They didn't want us to take the mic!" Yeah no poo poo. No one likes their event crashed. Sanders handled it far better than most would. They probably could have just asked to speak by showing up earlier to the event, and judging by Sanders reaction, he may have let them. The BLM women never mentioned trying to contact Sanders' organizers before or on the day of the event. i dunno, crashing sander's speech drew a lot of attention to them. a lot more than some pre-prepared speech would've at least. i mean you could make the same arguments about "why doesn't blm not protest on highways and instead go to a nice park where they have a permit to protest?" and a good answer is that they need the attention and they need to disrupt things so people can't just ignore them. VitalSigns posted:Yes I'm sure if black people just asked nicely someone would have done something about their situation by now. 
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Jul 5, 2017 03:19
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It brought a lot of attention to them personally. Didn't do anything at all for the movement as far as I can tell.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:25
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The Kingfish posted:It brought a lot of attention to them personally. Didn't do anything at all for the movement as far as I can tell. got bernie paying better attention to them and their issues right?
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Jul 5, 2017 03:26
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As a Sanders supporter, one of my issues with his campaign was how loudly he talked about raising taxes for the middle class. Republicans make sure the services that will have to be cut in order to cut taxes without adding to the deficit are always whispered, always in small print. I'm not an incrementalist when it comes to the level of services offered, but I'd prefer if taxes were raised as much as possible for the 0.1% first and 1% and then on downward until they've raised taxes as much as voters will let them get away with it, rather than mentioning the lowest bracket first.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:48
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:This is a terrific response to something nobody ITT said. It's implied by the pearl-clutching over someone...uh...not raising their hand before speaking in the face of America's insane levels of police brutality and violence. The Kingfish posted:This is a bad post right here. Let me put this in terms you can understand: the US labor movement was not exactly known for being nice and respectful to power, patiently waiting their turn to speak. Condiv posted:got bernie paying better attention to them and their issues right? Yes, and integrating opposition to the brutal policing, carceral state, and the racial divide-and-conquer strategy of the 1% into a broader campaign of economic justice is essential for success.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:57
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VitalSigns posted:It's implied by the pearl-clutching over someone...uh...not raising their hand before speaking in the face of America's insane levels of police brutality and violence. It's not pearl-clutching to point out how crashing a Bernie Sanders rally is a damned ineffective way of addressing said police brutality and violence.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:07
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"This quilting nonsense is an ineffective way of solving the AIDS crisis." - this thread in the 80s
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Jul 5, 2017 04:09
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's not pearl-clutching to point out how crashing a Bernie Sanders rally is a damned ineffective way of addressing said police brutality and violence. So are you advocating vigilanteism or an armed insurgency or.....?
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Jul 5, 2017 04:10
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WampaLord posted:"This quilting nonsense is an ineffective way of solving the AIDS crisis." - this thread in the 80s Look at these picketers being so loud and causing all this trouble for business, you're hurting your own cause! If you'd just channel all that energy into your work, really put that nose to the grindstone, why you'd get so much farther and engender the goodwill that will really win capital and government over
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Jul 5, 2017 04:18
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VitalSigns posted:So are you advocating vigilanteism or an armed insurgency or.....? Punching left at a social security and medicare event was dumb as gently caress. Also largely done because one of them is a crazy-rear end Tea Party fundie.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:23
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Oh Snapple! posted:Punching left at a social security and medicare event was dumb as gently caress. Was it? Bernie made changes to his campaign in response to better address criminal justice, so could you explain how it was dumb as gently caress and ineffective? E: Oh you edited in content. Who is a Tea Party fundie? And if true, how does that discredit a different statement about criminal justice reform? If the concern with criminal justice is "a Tea Party fundie might insincerely use our lack of a criminal justice plank to attack social security", isn't adding a criminal justice plank the most effective possible way to make us invulnerable to such cynical manipulation? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 04:26
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Bernie wasn't actually hostile to racial justice, but the event allowed the media & clinton campaign to hamstring his campaign by portraying it as out of touch or racially insensitive, which contributed to his primary loss. The post-event reaction of hiring people was pure damage control, but it failed to contain the damage already done, and Bernie lost the primary.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:31
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So the goalposts have moved from "ineffective" to "effective, but I don't like it"
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Jul 5, 2017 04:35
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It was effective at destroying Bernie as a candidate. Does that constitute success?
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Jul 5, 2017 04:38
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VitalSigns posted:So the goalposts have moved from "ineffective" to "effective, but I don't like it" It was effective at loving over the Sanders campaign, yes. Decreasing police brutality? Not so much.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:40
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I am doubtful that Bernie's loss can be solely attributed to that instance, I'd be very interested to see data to the contrary if you have it. I am especially skeptical because other campaigns, including Bernie's primary rival, had similar instances and dealt with it much worse than he did. In fact this sounds suspiciously like the Jefferson Clay argument that it's Bernie's fault Hillary lost for bringing attention to economic issues. In any case, if the result is that not having a strong criminal justice plank and a staff member dedicated to it is fatal to a leftist campaign, then the obvious solution is to do that from the beginning to improve our odds of success and prevent future incidents before they happen, and since we should be doing that anyway, there's no reason not to.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:45
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lol Sanders would have won if not for BLM causing him to lose harder than Hillary did in 2008 with a single protest. The sickness in D&D goes deeper than I thought.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:47
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Again - viewing it as an instance of 'direct action' is a mistake, it was a publicity stunt. Direct action, real direct action, always carries real, tangible risk, because you're taking on the centers of power. They will use violence and intimidation to protect themselves. Bernie, by contrast, was a marginal political candidate, campaigning under a party that actively despised him - he's not at the center of power. He didn't even have a security detail. So, gate-crashing it carries absolutely no risk, and therefore it cannot be direct action. But there are cameras there, and they did get on the news. They then used that fame to try and push products/make money. So that's how you know it was a publicity stunt. Of course, it's rude to actually point this out, even when it's obvious to everyone, because that would mean admitting to problems of how activism is organized. The other angle is that suggesting PoC are just as likely to be self-serving or otherwise as bad as white people, triggers some extremely online people - something I think these women exploit for their own benefit, by portraying all opposition to their actions as being rooted in racial prejudice.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:52
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