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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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https://twitter.com/DavidNir/status/882682356259336192
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Jul 5, 2017 22:01
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Jaxyon posted:It's possible that she didn't, some sites run like that. I tend to base my opinions on articles on the article, and if I didn't like the title i complain about it but don't consider it part of the article, no. Passages like this make me think that the title of the piece is, in fact, meant to reflect the theme of the article: quote:“Every dollar spent wooing Republicans is money flushed down the drain,” stated Steve Phillips of Democracy in Color on the Georgia 6th Congressional District race. Phillips is urging the Democratic Party to focus on its base and not Trump’s “white working class voters” that have become the party’s obsession. Let’s see if anyone listens going into 2018. Or will there be another “billion dollar blunder” as Phillips defined it, like in 2016. This is a weird bit of alternative history, because it wasn't white working class voters that Clinton flushed $1 billion down the toilet to woo. It was affluent white conservative suburban types in places like Philadelphia. WhiskeyJuvenile posted:... they frequently don't I realize this, but I don't think it's something that we can assume, unless the title flies in the face of the rest of the piece, which isn't the case here. Majorian fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 22:01
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I think the problem with that article (and many, many other similar articles) is that, as I think I mentioned in a previous post, it assumes that "white working class" is a coherent block with shared characteristics (at least to the point where it can be generalized). Like, they look at a statistic like "most white voters without a college degree voted for Trump, have racist opinions, etc" and interpret that in a way that concludes "the only way to increase white working class votes is to move closer to opinions expressed by the majority of them", when this is not a logical conclusion to come to. Basically it's the mistake where you take a subset of people and ignore the fact that it's made up of further subsets (I think the specific term for this misuse of statistics is "overgeneralization").
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Jul 5, 2017 22:37
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Immigration is the only issue I side against Democrats, with the idea that sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants are wrong. I guess we need to kick people out of the party when they disagree with even one plank of the platform, but only when they take positions that are against the business owning class. They make up some 8% of my city's population, and if you try to get a minimum wage job in the back room of a restaurant that doesn't involve talking to customers, nearly 100% of the other employees are illegal immigrants, and they don't speak any English, but they expect you to be trained by them. They act to decrease pressure on employers to pay employees more or face unemployment. There was someone complaining about how cities with liberal cities toward the homeless just get shipped busloads of homeless by rear end in a top hat conservative cities, overwhelming the city's social service system. It's like that, but on an international scale. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 23:20
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galenanorth posted:Immigration is the only issue I side with Republicans on, the idea that sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants are wrong. My particular city has . I guess we need to kick people out of the party when they disagree with even one plank of the platform, but only when they take positions that are against the business owning class. They make up some 8% of my city's population, and if you try to get a minimum wage job in the back room of a restaurant that doesn't involve talking to customers, nearly 100% of the other employees are illegal immigrants, and they don't speak any English, but they expect you to be trained by them. They act to decrease pressure on employers to pay employees more or face unemployment. There was someone complaining about how cities with liberal cities toward the homeless just get shipped busloads of homeless by rear end in a top hat conservative cities, overwhelming the city's social service system. It's like that, but on an international scale. So you want to punish poor people who are trying to make a living because business owners are assholes who break the law?
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Jul 5, 2017 23:22
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I think that laws like these shouldn't be considered, and legislators should do everything they can to penalize the businesses that are doing the hiring first. The problem is that Republicans have chosen to try to solve the illegal immigration problem by attacking illegal immigrants first, instead of passing legislation which increases the monetary penalties for businesses and ramping up enforcement of these monetary penalties. That is, I prefer the position espoused by McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012, but I don't support this particular bill. Democrats, on the other hand, generally don't think illegal immigration is a problem in any respect. I think that any country that offers social services that are much stronger than surrounding nations will have increased immigration because of it. Migrants tend to cross borders toward the countries where these social services are strongest. The country in question needs to make sure that either the funds available aren't immediately drained by neighboring citizens from poorer countries before they've finished providing the services to citizens.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:31
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Glazier posted:I don't want Tulsi because shes a raging Islamophobe and racist who supports genocide, her leftist economic positions don't play into it. Calling anti-interventionists 'genocide supporters' is apparently a favorite tactic of neoliberals and centrists now.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:34
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galenanorth posted:I think that laws like these shouldn't even be considered until they've done everything they can to penalize the businesses that are doing the hiring first. The problem is that Republicans have chosen to try to solve the illegal immigration problem by attacking illegal immigrants first, instead of passing legislation which increases the monetary penalties and ramping up enforcement of these monetary penalties. That is, I prefer the position espoused by McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012, but I don't support this particular bill. I'm on board with penalizing businesses, who are the ones driving illegal immigration. quote:Democrats, on the other hand, generally don't think illegal immigration is a problem in any respect. I think that any country that offers social services that are much stronger than surrounding nations will have increased immigration because of it. Migrants tend to cross borders toward the countries where these social services are strongest. The country in question needs to make sure that either the funds available aren't immediately drained by neighboring citizens from poorer countries before they've finished providing the services to citizens. Most democrats are for immigration reform. Canada has better social services than the US, but you don't see a ton of illegal American immigrants crossing the boarder. What you do have is Mexico essentially becoming a vassal state to the US where we use them for cheap immigration and let them deal with the blowback from our idiotic drug policy. We have an immigration policy set up to cause this exact problem, which is why we don't really focus on the business owners and instead focus on the immigrants...which keep in mind, Obama heavily deported. For most of our countries history, we had essentially open borders...for white folks. Our current immigration policy is mired in racism and has been for at least 100 years. If we were serious about it, we'd immediately crack down on businesses and then set up a more sensible immigration policy towards Mexico and other nations in our hemisphere. But we don't. What we want as a country is a source of cheap labor we can use to make profit off of, and blame for all our problems.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:38
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galenanorth posted:The country in question needs to make sure that either the funds available aren't immediately drained by neighboring citizens from poorer countries before they've finished providing the services to citizens. You do realize that, in a rather large number of cases, these immigrants explicitly do pay taxes and in most cases likely will never actually be able to benefit from the system that they are paying into, right?
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Jul 5, 2017 23:40
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international working class solidarity, so long as you stay on your side of the fence bucko
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Jul 5, 2017 23:44
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galenanorth posted:I think that laws like these shouldn't be considered, and legislators should do everything they can to penalize the businesses that are doing the hiring first. The problem is that Republicans have chosen to try to solve the illegal immigration problem by attacking illegal immigrants first, instead of passing legislation which increases the monetary penalties for businesses and ramping up enforcement of these monetary penalties. That is, I prefer the position espoused by McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012, but I don't support this particular bill. Democrats, on the other hand, generally don't think illegal immigration is a problem in any respect. I think that any country that offers social services that are much stronger than surrounding nations will have increased immigration because of it. Migrants tend to cross borders toward the countries where these social services are strongest. The country in question needs to make sure that either the funds available aren't immediately drained by neighboring citizens from poorer countries before they've finished providing the services to citizens. Ah, yes. Social services are the reason for illegal immigration. That is why states with such generous social services like Texas and Florida are near the top. Also, I don't think you know what "sanctuary cities" actually refer to.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:45
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Ikari Worrier posted:You do realize that, in a rather large number of cases, these immigrants explicitly do pay taxes and in most cases likely will never actually be able to benefit from the system that they are paying into, right? Also the fact that Mexico has universal healthcare and better immunization rates than we do.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:46
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personally i think progressives ought to place the protection of exploited individuals above hypothetical concerns over mendicants slipping over the border to steal all our healthcare, and that failing to do so disqualifies you from calling yourself one
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Jul 5, 2017 23:52
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galenanorth posted:Migrants tend to cross borders toward the countries where these social services are strongest. This would explain net migration being people going to Mexico from the United States.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:57
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Notice how nobody is actually denying that illegal immigrants place downward pressure on wages, it's just that you need to get the gently caress over it you poor redneck
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Jul 6, 2017 00:18
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call to action posted:Notice how nobody is actually denying that illegal immigrants place downward pressure on wages, it's just that you need to get the gently caress over it you poor redneck Actually what people are saying is that cheapskate business owners put downward pressure on wages but hey if you want to get mad at brown people, rock on. MAGA.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:19
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call to action posted:Notice how nobody is actually denying that illegal immigrants place downward pressure on wages, it's just that you need to get the gently caress over it you poor redneck Immigrants in general do, but that's more a consequence of global income inequality and the desire of capitalism to exploit it. I agree, though, it's a message that the Democratic Party is unlikely to adopt.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:21
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RedSpider posted:Calling anti-interventionists 'genocide supporters' is apparently a favorite tactic of neoliberals and centrists now. Are you serious? Is he serious?
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Jul 6, 2017 00:23
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call to action posted:Notice how nobody is actually denying that illegal immigrants place downward pressure on wages, it's just that you need to get the gently caress over it you poor redneck criminalizing the existence of a segment of the working class is insanely bad
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Jul 6, 2017 00:23
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Jaxyon posted:Actually what people are saying is that cheapskate business owners put downward pressure on wages but hey if you want to get mad at brown people, rock on. MAGA. Actually I want full amnesty, and to prosecute the gently caress out of those businesses so they can't hire illegals ever again. I get that as a liberal you're really into the de facto legal slave underclass though, maga
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Jul 6, 2017 00:29
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I was wrong and also stupid
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Jul 6, 2017 00:33
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Jaxyon posted:Actually what people are saying is that cheapskate business owners put downward pressure on wages but hey if you want to get mad at brown people, rock on. MAGA. that's why i propose fining these owners brutally or closing their enterprises when they're found employing illegal labor like that.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:35
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Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:42
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reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. this gives me warm fuzzies
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Jul 6, 2017 00:44
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Glazier posted:Are you serious? Is he serious? Are you stupid? Have you watched CNN or read the NYT lately?
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Jul 6, 2017 00:44
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reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. im down
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Jul 6, 2017 00:48
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call to action posted:Actually I want full amnesty, and to prosecute the gently caress out of those businesses so they can't hire illegals ever again. I get that as a liberal you're really into the de facto legal slave underclass though, maga I literally just argued against that but you're really bad at reading and/or posting, but I applaud you don't let that stop you from doing it.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:50
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Majorian posted:The very title of the article spells out the problem: "As Democrats Keep Chasing Trump Voter Waterfalls, Will They Ever Listen to Their Actual Base: Black People?" Characterizing the effort to recapture white working class votes as "chasing waterfalls," and labeling black voters as the Democrats' "actual base" makes it pretty clear that the author sees catering to these two groups as mutually exclusive. That's my problem with it. A cynical person would point out that black people are only 13% of the country, and as such they're too small a group to be the base of any political party.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:08
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reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. Strongly concur.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:10
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RedSpider posted:Calling anti-interventionists 'genocide supporters' is apparently a favorite tactic of neoliberals and centrists now. Tulsi Gabbard isn't an anti-interventionist, and she is way too comfortable in the company of genuinely genocidal lunatics. reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. Very good idea. Majorian fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 01:43
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RedSpider posted:Are you stupid? Have you watched CNN or read the NYT lately? Hell no, I dropped that subscription a while ago.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:48
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reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. 
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Jul 6, 2017 01:49
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I bet if the dems ran on charging anyone who hires illegals 100k every time and then made that a law, they would definitely get some chud votes.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:54
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guy who thinks some workers be should less able to earn the means of subsistence due to their place of origin or heritage, you are aware that that's how the separate classes of race/caste are formed right?reignonyourparade posted:Put any illegal immigrant who reports getting paid less than the local minimum wage on a fast track for citizenship. good start. now let's abolish the concept of citizenship, everyone gets the same full set of rights for merely existing in a place Rodatose fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 01:56
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neoliberal North American Informal A Democrat the speaker does not like. cf.Centrist
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Jul 6, 2017 04:29
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RedSpider posted:Calling anti-interventionists 'genocide supporters' is apparently a favorite tactic of neoliberals and centrists now. Didn't you get the memo? Tulsi lusts for muslim death with her anti-interventionist policies and support of a scummy Hindu leader that the rest of the world has forgiven. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are friends of the muslim people as displayed by their general disregard of muslim countries' sovereignty, neverending drone strikes against muslim civilians, steady flow of weapons to Saudi Arabia so they can continue committing war crimes against Yemen and their non-use of the phrase 'Islamic extremism'. (and before anybody else tries it, yes, I condemned Trump for his SA weapons deal and had a fun time trying to explain to all my pro-Trump friends & family why that was actually a bad thing) (also Tulsi's support for drone strikes is bad but if we can reel back our horrible foreign policy to just slaughtering civilians with flying death machines, it'd be a net positive over the status quo we get from the average democrat or republican) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 04:33
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Lightning Lord posted:This thread sucks. It’s gone to poo poo in the past few days as what appear to be neoliberals posting and calling people racists.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:32
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Call Me Charlie posted:Didn't you get the memo? Tulsi lusts for muslim death with her anti-interventionist policies and support of a scummy Hindu leader that the rest of the world has forgiven. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are friends of the muslim people as displayed by their general disregard of muslim countries' sovereignty, neverending drone strikes against muslim civilians, steady flow of weapons to Saudi Arabia so they can continue committing war crimes against Yemen and their non-use of the phrase 'Islamic extremism'. Word. The Middle East thread is full of fuckheads like Volkerball and Al-Saqr who hysterically promote interventionist policies identical to the Bush Doctrine in alluring ways that would even make Dubya himself envious; apparently Tulsi is the bloodthirsty genocidal racist for opposing more Middle East regime changes.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:47
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Trust me guys, the people that support the slaveowner definitely actually care about Gabbard's position on Modi
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Jul 6, 2017 06:00
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RedSpider posted:Word. The Middle East thread is full of fuckheads like Volkerball and Al-Saqr who hysterically promote interventionist policies identical to the Bush Doctrine in alluring ways that would even make Dubya himself envious; apparently Tulsi is the bloodthirsty genocidal racist for opposing more Middle East regime changes. Tulsi is pretty racist against Muslims though.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:02
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