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The thing with the X-Men comics is a bit funny since Morrison was partly inspired by Bryan Singer's X-Men movies that Whedon helped write.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:54
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Shall we say I'm knockin' the wasps? The MSJ posted:The thing with the X-Men comics is a bit funny since Morrison was partly inspired by Bryan Singer's X-Men movies that Whedon helped write. Mostly the aesthetic. Brother Entropy posted:a slavering devotion to the status quo undoing interesting story conceits is just superhero comics in general and not really a unique failing of whedon Also following writers undoing all of Morrison's changes is just the story of his career in the Big 2.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:12
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Alexander Hamilton posted:The character arc Tony Stark goes through from Avengers -> Iron Man 3 -> Avengers 2 -> Captain America: Civil War is loving bizarre. I'm not sure what the Hell is trying to be communicated, to be honest. There is no arc. It's just a straight line. Gyges posted:The celebration at the end slightly confuses the message because it doesn't clearly enough delineate between "Yay, now our minds are clear and we can give peace a chance!" and "Holy gently caress we just survived a literal clash of gods, I'm alive and I'm celebrating who gives a gently caress who with! Also the armistice will hold so no more war!" That's how the actual armistice worked in real life. People just stopped fighting, but they also killed each other right up until the moment it stopped. WW1 was really loving weird. BigglesSWE posted:, but it sure as hell wasnt a good movie either. I'm sure I'm 100% the only goon to have stated this not obnoxiously obvious fact. That's not how facts work. On a fundamental level, that's not what the 'fact' means. Goffer posted:Which obviously doesn't make any sense because last episode had a whole lot of superman's kin came and wrecking part of the city. The people know, and the audience knows that they are super powered aliens, not divine beings. Trying to apply tests to determine the omnipotence and omnibenevolence of Superman seems like a dumb logical leap. Hence why some people (me) might find Lex's motivation lacking. This is a really strange critique that i disagree with, but i'm having great trouble articulating why. It seems (and I may have misinterpreted) that the subtext/symbolic motivation of Luthor fails because of the literal facts of the plot. Is that what you're saying? Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 01:32
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Snowman_McK posted:That's how the actual armistice worked in real life. People just stopped fighting, but they also killed each other right up until the moment it stopped. WW1 was really loving weird. They were not reacting to the Armistice.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:44
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Gyges posted:They were not reacting to the Armistice. The point is that the actual end of conflict produced the same elated feelings in real life without any mind control. It's weird to watch people be happy that the slaughter has stopped and think 'well, mind control stopped.'
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Jul 6, 2017 01:52
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If actual super-powered aliens came to Earth and looked exactly like humans, I'm pretty sure people would not rule out the possibility that they're divine. If anything, I think this would reinforce a lot of people's beliefs that the Earth "matters" in some kind of universal plan.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:00
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Martman posted:If actual super-powered aliens came to Earth and looked exactly like humans, I'm pretty sure people would not rule out the possibility that they're divine. If anything, I think this would reinforce a lot of people's beliefs that the Earth "matters" in some kind of universal plan. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all explicitly rule out the idea that aliens could possibly exist (God chose earth and granted it life and nowhere else). So, most of them would probably just think it was a lie/test from Satan/The hidden Imam
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Jul 6, 2017 02:04
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Snowman_McK posted:The point is that the actual end of conflict produced the same elated feelings in real life without any mind control. It's weird to watch people be happy that the slaughter has stopped and think 'well, mind control stopped.' Not if the whole movie the protagonist insisted that everyone would be happy because the mind control stopped just as soon as she killed the bad guy. Which is all Diana does and leads to the final bit of conflict between her and the other good guys when she rushes off to kill the guy she concluded was the bad guy instead of helping stop the evil plan.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:05
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Martman posted:If actual super-powered aliens came to Earth and looked exactly like humans, I'm pretty sure people would not rule out the possibility that they're divine. If anything, I think this would reinforce a lot of people's beliefs that the Earth "matters" in some kind of universal plan. It would make like 75% of all religious mythology true. Divine beings that resemble humans would freak people the gently caress out.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:09
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all explicitly rule out the idea that aliens could possibly exist (God chose earth and granted it life and nowhere else). There are more iterations of each of these religions being practiced today that explicitly allow for aliens to exist than there are ones that don't. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It would make like 75% of all religious mythology true. Divine beings that resemble humans would freak people the gently caress out. This.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:10
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Neo Rasa posted:There are more iterations of each of these religions being practiced today that explicitly allow for aliens to exist than there are ones that don't. Which iterations? Catholicism, Mormonism, and Evangelical Protestantism 100% reject the idea. Some mainline protestants might be able to make it fit. Sunni and Shia Islam are extremely clear that it is not possible. Suffi Islam might allow it under certain hadith interpretations. Technically, all forms of Judaism reject the idea. But reform Jews would probably be okay with it because they consider most of the Old Testament to be metaphor.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:28
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The majority of people are not fundamentalists. People can adapt to new information (i.e. wow aliens actually showed up) and incorporate it into their beliefs instead of being like "welp turns out we were wrong, pack it up boys, religion is over."
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Jul 6, 2017 02:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Catholicism, Mormonism, and Evangelical Protestantism 100% reject the idea. Nah, the Vatican is comfortable with the idea of extraterrestrial life. Pope Francis has talked about it.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:36
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Martman posted:The majority of people are not fundamentalists. People can adapt to new information (i.e. wow aliens actually showed up) and incorporate it into their beliefs instead of being like "welp turns out we were wrong, pack it up boys, religion is over." I agree, but I'm saying that aliens showing up would cause a lot of people to alter their beliefs or re-evaluate them to fit into their narrative. Most religions wouldn't see the arrival of aliens and go "We were right all along!"
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Jul 6, 2017 02:37
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Sir Kodiak posted:Nah, the Vatican is comfortable with the idea of extraterrestrial life. Pope Francis has talked about it. As has the Southern Baptist Convention, which is officially okay with the notion of alien life. The reaction of most religious groups to be aliens would not be "DEMONS!" it would be "Hello, have you heard the Good News?" Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I agree, but I'm saying that aliens showing up would cause a lot of people to alter their beliefs or re-evaluate them. It probably wouldn't. Most religions have survived bigger shocks than that just fine. People and belief structures are marvelously flexible. If anything, I'd expect people to become more religious after Earth makes first contact with aliens. People usually want answers to things they don't understand, and religion has always provided that. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 02:37
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It would make like 75% of all religious mythology true. Divine beings that resemble humans would freak people the gently caress out. Jesus was just a mutant, man. If he were alive in the X-Men universe people would be hatin' on him. Not like those good ol' Fantastic Four, oh no siree. This reminds me how awesome Noah is for some reason. Jesus: "But, brother, I can walk on water!" Dude 1: "Yeah so can half the superhero population." Jesus: "I can turn water into wine!" Dude 2: "That's just...like...midochloridans, man. Go back to Lucas and Star Wars."
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Jul 6, 2017 02:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Which iterations? Catholicism officially considers the existence of aliens a scientific, rather than religious question, although the current Pope has speculated on the subject. Mormonism is actually super friendly to the idea of aliens because they believe that the God they and other Biblical religions worship was a being from another world who ascended to Godhood to create life, that similar beings exist who have created life on other worlds, and that you can become a similar being through Mormonism. That's why Mormon sci-fi and fantasy writers are a dime a dozen. You haven't a loving clue what you're talking about and should stop assuming you do.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Most religions wouldn't see the arrival of aliens and go "We were right all along!" Say you're the pope. You can say Superman is an angel, and defer massive religious authority to him. You can say he's a demon, and take sides against the man who just saved the world. Or you can be cool with aliens. Seems like an easy choice.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:53
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Hodgepodge posted:Catholicism officially considers the existence of aliens a scientific, rather than religious question, although the current Pope has speculated on the subject. Mormon Cosmology is not the same as scientific cosmology. Mormon cosmology is metaphysical. The planets are not physical planets or "other worlds."
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Jul 6, 2017 02:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Mormon Cosmology is not the same as scientific cosmology. This would not stop the LDS for a hot second. And Islam already acknowledges djinni, who can convert to Islam. Every major religion in the world has already considered the idea of aliens, and I've not heard of a single one that said anything but "Quite possible and we'd like to chat with/convert them if we can manage to communicate."
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Jul 6, 2017 02:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Which iterations? I think you are outdated or misunderstanding something on this because Catholicism has been down with aliens since at least the 80s. Like there's literally a Vatican Astronomer who comments on this, it'd be mentioned in sermons even when I was a little kid. The Quran has a few passages that are very regularly interpreted to mean that there are infinite" "earths" out there on which divine intelligent creations dwell. Islam also acknowledges the djinni who are literally life forms inhabiting other worlds. In Judaism there's been discussion on this being acceptable as early as the 1300s. A lot of this is based on there not being much there against it, and also on the brief mentions of a place called "Meroz," described as a star or planet that explicitly has inhabitants. Some Rabbi interpret the idea of saying that alien life can't exist when obviously there are other planets out there is the same as saying that God's power is limited, and so seeking out extraterrestrial life is cool and good. Extraterrestrial life that are similar/identical to humans is an explicit part of Mormon doctrine and teaching so I'm not sure where you're getting it from that they "100% reject the idea." You can argue about the semantics of "other worlds" vs. "different planes of existence" or "different levels of perception," but every single one of those sure as hell meets the definition of "extraterrestrial" so it's a meaningless distinction. tldr: Divine beings of light from the sky being alien life isn't a particularly out there (  ) stretch of one's faith and for many people the appearance of such would do more to vindicate their beliefs than to conflict with them.Even better version: Cythereal posted:Every major religion in the world has already considered the idea of aliens, and I've not heard of a single one that said anything but "Quite possible and we'd like to chat with/convert them if we can manage to communicate." Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 02:59
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I like the implication in Spaceballs that Barf, an alien that looks half-man/half-dog, was either born into or converted at some point into Christianity (when Lonestar asks him to give him a reading, he starts reciting the Lord's Prayer).
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Jul 6, 2017 03:01
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Neo Rasa posted:I think you are outdated or misunderstanding something on this because Catholicism has been down with aliens since at least the 80s. Like there's literally a Vatican Astronomer who comments on this, it'd be mentioned in sermons even when I was a little kid. The Quran has a few passages that are very regularly interpreted to mean that there are infinite" "earths" out there on which divine intelligent creations dwell. Islam also acknowledges the djinni who are literally life forms inhabiting other worlds. Protestants, too, generally take the idea that God created us in His image but nowhere does the Bible say we were the only beings He created so it's quite possible there's alien life out there that was also made in God's image.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:04
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ruddiger posted:I like the implication in Spaceballs that Barf, an alien that looks half-man/half-dog, was either born into or converted at some point into Christianity (when Lonestar asks him to give him a reading, he starts reciting the Lord's Prayer). I take it back all, please keep talking about Beavis
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Jul 6, 2017 03:07
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Of course, the punchline is that he's Superman. Right there in the name.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:09
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Mormon Cosmology is not the same as scientific cosmology. It has been interpreted as potentially such by some LDS leaders. Smith's statement that God "once was a man like one of us and … once dwelled on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did in the flesh and like us" gives a lot of room for interpretation and speculation. Smith talked a lot about other worlds like our own, and while open to interpretation as metaphysical rather than an account of our own physical universe, the fact is that Mormonism is explicitly comfortable with Earth and humanity being non-unique and that this is in fact part of their doctrine.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:10
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I think people here should watch They Call Me Jeeg 's not exactly a comic book movie but it does deal with superhuman people and its pretty good. On Netflix right now.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:18
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ungulateman posted:Of course, the punchline is that he's Superman. Right there in the name. Of the house of El, no less.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:20
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Cythereal posted:Protestants, too, generally take the idea that God created us in His image but nowhere does the Bible say we were the only beings He created so it's quite possible there's alien life out there that was also made in God's image. The Bible says that humanity is the only intelligent life created by god. There's also a ton of other quotes that would lead protestant evangelicals to reject the idea of alien life. The Church is described as the bride of Christ and covers all life in creation. Creation covers all material space, but life exists only on earth. The bible also says that man was created first in god's image and endowed with craftsmanship immediately after. God blessed mankind to always be closest to him (in intelligence and craftsmanship). If another species were able to travel to earth, then that would mean they were either more intelligent or possesd more craftsmanship, and would therefore be closer to god, than humanity. Which is impossible because humanity was created in god's image. Jesus also says that all life exists on earth and will eventually be united in one flock under him, bringing all of creation under Christ. I'm just saying that acceptance of aliens in religion is mostly a recent development and no religions are explicitly positive on alien life.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Bible says that humanity is the only intelligent life created by god. The Bible does not say that humanity is the only intelligent life created by God and many world religions are explicitly positive on alien life even if they don't say "Little green men are awesome!" You also immediately contradict your arguments with your bit about creation and life. You can drop the r/atheism nonsense.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:23
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Looking into it, the idea that humans are super-special and that alien life would be theologically devastating is very specific to Evangelical Christianity. As I really dislike the tendency of Americans to extrapolate their notion of religion from Evangelical belief, I'm glad to make this public service announcement: Evangelical Christians do not have a monopoly on the idea of religion and are in fact not good representatives of the nature of religious belief and if you assume these things you will make avoidable mistakes and possibly look dumb in the process. While most religions are theologically neutral when it comes to alien life, Mormonism, Hinduism, and to a degree Buddhism seem the most alien (and also superhero) friendly theologies. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Bible says that humanity is the only intelligent life created by god. I made my post before reading this, but yeah. Evangelical interpretation of the Bible is not authoritative beyond their own churches. You seem to be giving a specific sect bizarre authority to speak not only for other Christian sects, but even other religions, in a very chauvinistic manner. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 03:31
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Cythereal posted:The Bible does not say that humanity is the only intelligent life created by God quote:The Bible does not explicitly confirm or deny the existence of intelligent life from other planets. Although the subject is not addressed explicitly, the Bible teaches implicitly that the only things He created with intelligence are the angels, man, and the animals of Earth. In the Scripture God declares that after the sixth day, he has completed his work and that there are no other intelligent beings besides man, animals, and the angels.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:33
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I blame all the sci-fi out there that uses fictional religions or doesn't approach the subject at all unlike Babylon 5 which correctly realizes poo poo wouldn't even skip a beat.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:34
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Papal infallibility is a controversial idea, and actually far more limited idea in scope that most people assume. But I'm glad that forums user Leon Trotsky 2012 has discovered the miracle of random unsourced google search infallibility. Fun fact: Tolkien, being a devout Catholic, ran everything he wrote past his Bishop to avoid heresy. His Bishopric was down with Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, and magicians who are actually incarnated angelic spirits. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 03:40
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Hodgepodge posted:I made my post before reading this, but yeah. Evangelical interpretation of the Bible is not authoritative beyond their own churches. You seem to be giving a specific sect bizarre authority to speak not only for other Christian sects, but even other religions, in a very chauvinistic manner. Even the Southern Baptist Convention says alien life is possible and also created in God's image. It's just not a subject most Evangelical Protestants think about or give the theological time of day to because as far as we currently know, we are alone in the universe, and therefore it's a bit silly to speculate on. There isn't a religion on Earth that would be paused for a moment by learning of sentient alien life, and most would immediately set about extraterrestrial missionary work.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:42
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Cythereal posted:There isn't a religion on Earth that would be paused for a moment by learning of sentient alien life, and most would immediately set about extraterrestrial missionary work. Even this is an assumption based on our immediate experience with (small-e) evangelical Biblical religions. The Jewish reaction seems to be that, much as with the Gentiles, Judaism doesn't apply to aliens. Buddhism has some traditions that the god-like beings such as Asuras and Devas were so impressed by the Buddha's philosophy that they honored him despite being a mere mortal, and many divine and even demonic beings came to learn from him. I'd guess that Hindus would be likewise open to non-human devotees, but they do not seem especially evangelical. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 03:48
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Hodgepodge posted:Even this is an assumption based on our immediate experience with (small-e) evangelical Biblical religions. The Jewish reaction seems to be that, much as with the Gentiles, Judaism doesn't apply to aliens. Buddhism has some traditions that the god-like beings such as Asuras and Devas, were so impressed by the Buddha's philosophy that they honored him despite being a mere mortal, and many divine and even demonic beings came to learn from him. I'd guess that Hindus would be likewise open to non-human devotees, but they do not seem especially evangelical. True, I'm mostly speaking from experience with Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism. I can't see any of those three religions feeling threatened by the discovery of alien life aside from the odd wackadoodle sect.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:52
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The fun thing, religiously speaking, in an alien encounter isn't people throwing their bibles down in disgust because clearly all their beliefs are lies. The fun thing is when the aliens try and convert us to their religion(s). Especially if they happen to have one or more that obviously parallel one or more of our religions. Mormonism would be fun because then we get another religious book about how after Jesus came to North America to chill out with the indigenous peoples he flew off to Zentari 3 to spread the good news to the Zentarians. Of course there's also the multiple aliens with separately co-supporting religions, or perhaps an alien race with a religion based around a deity flying off to found fake religions that sound suspiciously like the religions of both Earth and Zentari 3.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:52
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Cythereal posted:True, I'm mostly speaking from experience with Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism. I can't see any of those three religions feeling threatened by the discovery of alien life aside from the odd wackadoodle sect. They should probably be worried about the aliens sending missionaries, if our own history applies. We've already seen a few weird cults like the Raelians make up aliens to preach to humanity.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:54
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Hodgepodge posted:They should probably be worried about the aliens sending missionaries, if our own history applies. We've already seen a few weird cults like the Raelians make up aliens to preach to humanity. The Mass Effect games have fun examples both ways. The main trilogy mentions that Confucianism and Buddhism have found turian converts, while one squad member in Andromeda is a human who follows the Athame religion of the asari.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:57
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