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Cythereal posted:The Mass Effect games have fun examples both ways. The main trilogy mentions that Confucianism and Buddhism have found turian converts, while one squad member in Andromeda is a human who follows the Athame religion of the asari. I kind of want to see a story about the plight of an alien missionary trying to win human converts when it is a squid immersed in a tank because our oceans don't contain enough ammonia for its species to survive in. All the metaphors are weird and humans communicate with vibrations in a gaseous medium rather than rapid changes in skin color and the whole thing is just a mess.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Bible says that humanity is the only intelligent life created by god. Catholics and Protestants in particular already had to deal with this issue 500 years ago when they discovered an entire continent full of people who had never had any contact with the rest of the world or possibility of hearing Christ's message or even discussed at all by the Bible. The issue of what the existence of Indians meant to Christianity was pretty much the same context of what aliens would mean to Christianity.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:27
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Snowman_McK posted:This is a really strange critique that i disagree with, but i'm having great trouble articulating why. It seems (and I may have misinterpreted) that the subtext/symbolic motivation of Luthor fails because of the literal facts of the plot. Is that what you're saying? That's about it - he's there attributing the powers of the divine on a alien that that can fly and punches stuff hard. He is powerful but not clearly not all powerful. As for good? Superman hasn't been around long enough for people to even attribute 'all good' to his mystique. At most they're all still trying to figure out who he is - Batman, the Government, the media, are trying to determine his motives, and whether or not they can trust him. No one is worshipping him, they're asking 'who is he?'. His lackey/girlfriend/business partners aren't swooning over Superman, literally no one is giving him the benefit of the doubt apart from that one crowd of Day of the Dead people that conceivably view him as something greater. Take Lex's quote: "The problem of you on top of everything else. You above all. Ah. 'Cause that's what God is. Horus. Apollo. Jehovah. Kal-El. Clark Joseph Kent. See, what we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Jo, because God is tribal. God take sides. No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fist and abominations. Mm-mm. I've figured it out way back, if God is all powerful, He cannot be all good. And if He's all good then He cannot be all powerful. And neither can you be. They need to see the fraud you are. With their eyes. The blood on your hands." "They need to see the fraud you are." - Who are they? Superman hasn't had enough time to defraud anyone. Lex is raging against the Ideal which hasn't even been created.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:21
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Hodgepodge posted:I kind of want to see a story about the plight of an alien missionary trying to win human converts when it is a squid immersed in a tank because our oceans don't contain enough ammonia for its species to survive in. All the metaphors are weird and humans communicate with vibrations in a gaseous medium rather than rapid changes in skin color and the whole thing is just a mess. I'd sign up for the swimming pool kaleidoscope religion.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:24
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Goffer posted:" He's been around for a year and a half in the public eye. Active and saving lives.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:36
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Goffer posted:Superman hasn't been around long enough for people to even attribute 'all good' to his mystique. At most they're all still trying to figure out who he is - Batman, the Government, the media, are trying to determine his motives, and whether or not they can trust him. No one is worshipping him, they're asking 'who is he?'. His lackey/girlfriend/business partners aren't swooning over Superman, literally no one is giving him the benefit of the doubt apart from that one crowd of Day of the Dead people that conceivably view him as something greater. 
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Jul 6, 2017 05:44
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Goffer posted:That's about it - he's there attributing the powers of the divine on a alien that that can fly and punches stuff hard. He is powerful but not clearly not all powerful. As for good? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lQxUqmnfU 
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Jul 6, 2017 05:46
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We put up quite a lot of statues. It doesn't mean they're perfect beings, just that they did something noteworthy  Although that pose does imply a rather benevolent being "literally no one is giving him the benefit of the doubt apart from that one crowd of Day of the Dead people that conceivably view him as something greater". Also those people in the flood. Mostly everyone else is questioning his motives. The writing in that is so tacky as well: "And when the saviour character actually comes to Earth we want him to abide by our rules?" "the fact is that maybe he isn't some sort of devil or jesus character" It's like he's a fictional being!
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Jul 6, 2017 06:34
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Goffer posted:We put up quite a lot of statues. It doesn't mean they're perfect beings, just that they did something noteworthy Right. You have to be able to tell the difference between the statements being made by the BvS statue a kneeling titan offering the sky to a monument to the dead and a Civil War general waving a gun around on a rearing horse. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 06:38
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Goffer posted:"And when the saviour character actually comes to Earth we want him to abide by our rules?" The scene is literally about what people are projecting onto him. What people are deciding he is. I think you only need to look at the last US election to realise how prevalent that is. Few people think he's actually jesus, but he is unbelievably powerful in a way that makes humanity kind of redunant. Imagine the adoration a remarkable human might recieve, then multiply it by the fact that they can actually fly, that they actually saved the planet, that they actually seem invulnerable. There's a point where, from a practical perspective, the way you'd regard god, and the way you'd regard superman don't actually have that much to differentiate them.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:42
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Sir Kodiak posted:Right. You have to be able to tell the difference between the statements being made by the BvS statue a kneeling titan offering the sky to a monument to the dead and a Civil War general waving a gun around on a rearing horse. Well, one of them was clearly done by an artist who hated the subject.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:16
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Gyges posted:Well, one of them was clearly done by an artist who hated the subject. Now, make me a statue of custard and maybe I'll enjoy it.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:17
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Back to the Spider-Man Homecoming Mary Jane thing: no, they didn't say anything because it's a dumb throwaway line at the very end of the movie that means literally nothing. Like Peter and Ned and everyone else call her Michelle throughout the entire movie and then at the very end she's like "uh my friends call me MJ" and then Ned says "uh you don't have any friends" and she's like "whatever". The logic was almost certainly either "well Liz has to be Peter's love interest for this movie but then she goes away so we'll just hide MJ under a different name until the very end so we don't distract people" or "well since Liz isn't a character that exists in the comics we have to have a comic character somewhere, just toss it in somewhere inconsequential." They literally put a third of the female cast on a truck to Oregon at the end of the movie so they had to do *something*
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Jul 6, 2017 09:44
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Jesus christ, that's horrifying. Good god man.
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Jul 6, 2017 10:16
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DC Murderverse posted:no, they didn't say anything because it's a dumb throwaway line at the very end of the movie that means literally nothing. Like Peter and Ned and everyone else call her Michelle throughout the entire movie and then at the very end she's like "uh my friends call me MJ" and then Ned says "uh you don't have any friends" and she's like "whatever". Liz Allen is actually a character in the comics. and Michelle being "MJ" is quite obviously a set up for the next one, she even gave a meaningful look.
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Jul 6, 2017 10:22
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:me when I was a child didn't tell me the entire truth!!!" or a scene where Ares said "Even if you stop me here I'll still win because the armistice is also part of my plans MU HA HA HA!" Ares did say that though!
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Jul 6, 2017 11:18
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What people really want is apparently for movies to explicitly explain everything in dialogue multiple times and spell things out to them as if they were a child
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Jul 6, 2017 11:46
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Al Borland Corp. posted:What people really want is apparently for movies to explicitly explain everything in dialogue multiple times and spell things out to them as if they were a child I feel like I got the two big takeaways from Wonder Woman. War bad Woman with the psychological development of a six-year old our only hope
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Jul 6, 2017 11:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC6wc03OjhY&t=30s
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Jul 6, 2017 12:20
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Gyges posted:Not if the whole movie the protagonist insisted that everyone would be happy because the mind control stopped just as soon as she killed the bad guy. Which is all Diana does and leads to the final bit of conflict between her and the other good guys when she rushes off to kill the guy she concluded was the bad guy instead of helping stop the evil plan. The whole movie presents the protagonist as ridiculously naive and hilariously wrong.
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Jul 6, 2017 13:14
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Kevin Feige says that Avengers 4 is "the end" of the 22-movie MCU Arc and "the last installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe." After the Spider-Man: Homecoming Sequel, there is going to be "a new MCU" with some major announcements to come. quote:Feige told the Toronto Sun that Avengers 4, which currently does not have a working title, would be the last installment in the current MCU. After that movie, Feige explained, the sequel to Spider-Man: Homecoming will represent a new period for Marvel. It will help to kickstart a new MCU future with new superheroes for audiences to get to know. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 14:01
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Al Borland Corp. posted:What people really want is apparently for movies to explicitly explain everything in dialogue multiple times and spell things out to them as if they were a child Don't diss on Shakespeare.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:05
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Back to the Spider-Man Homecoming Mary Jane thing: No they just shifted the shitstorm from Homecoming to the next Spiderman film I'm convinced that they called her Michelle so they have get out of jail free card in their deck once people realize what has happened
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Jul 6, 2017 15:07
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RBA Starblade posted:Don't diss on Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote for morons
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Jul 6, 2017 15:15
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Burkion posted:Shakespeare wrote for morons He wrote to the back row. Nothing wrong with that.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:25
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Probably late, pretentious and out of nowhere for multiple reasons, but my first thought on the Martha scene in Beavis, and especially the post-rescue followup, is that it's a moment when Batman realises that Superman is not his enemy, but his spiritual brother. The actual Martha later says "You must be a friend of my son. Y'know, the cape." like they're clearly a couple of kids who've been playing pretend together with costumes. (and I mean that with no intent to demean. Playing pretend is important.) The whole movie, especially in the Extended Edition, is basically how Lex has been very artificially setting up the conflict, subconsciously or consciously because if they actually sat down and talked to each other the two caped outsiders might actually have a lot to discuss. Also, not sure whether it's worth a look to read Diana's dialogue, especially 'They don't know how to mourn him except as a soldier' through a lens informed by Wonder Woman's own movie; she obviously has a certain view of soldiers, and clearly sees Superman, whom she only met very briefly (she seems to interact with Bruce Wayne with a lot more interest than Clark Kent, who I'm not sure she knows is Superman til the end) as something different. Especially since a big theme is that people see Superman as godlike, with wildly varying reactions based on that, and Wonder Woman has her own views on that as well. I do like the idea that the existence of Superman is driving the whole world a little crazy; that an alien who looks like a guy on the street in a fancy suit (I do like the idea of Superman wearing chainmail, adds to the 'knight in shining armour' imagery that Snyder is clearly a fan of) is in its own way as potent and terrifying imagery as Cthulhu risen from the deep, something out of nowhere that the human world could never be really prepared to deal with. Of course, maybe going a little mad isn't a bad thing. Also on the religion note; especially in the modern day, I think that the literal line of faith as written in the holy books and preached by the holy men isn't necessarily the same as the way the faith is internalised and interpreted by the flock, as much as said holy men would like to believe.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:The actual Martha later says "You must be a friend of my son. Y'know, the cape." like they're clearly a couple of kids who've been playing pretend together with costumes. (and I mean that with no intent to demean. Playing pretend is important.) And you've no doubt remembered that one of the last scenes in Man of Steel is a Martha flashback to Pa Kent, looking fondly on young Clark running around the backyard wearing a cape.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:19
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:And you've no doubt remembered that one of the last scenes in Man of Steel is a Martha flashback to Pa Kent, looking fondly on young Clark running around the backyard wearing a cape. Well I do now. Fits with the themes of childhood that have been big in Man of Steel and always central to the Batman mythos; Superman is a product of good parents, Batman is a product of dead parents. And on the Spider-man topic, I have to wonder if they're changing up stuff so much for the MCU Spider-man just as much because they're actively avoiding retreading the Raimi and Amazing movies doing everything to death, good or bad. When you reboot a franchise twice in the same decade, it probably helps to be as different as you can be if only so audiences don't feel like they're literally watching the same movie again.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:27
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Anyone can track down the source of these quotes? https://twitter.com/darththawne/status/882542626175463424
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Jul 6, 2017 16:50
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Anyone can track down the source of these quotes? https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/matt-reeves-teases-emotional-batman-story-pays-tribute-christopher-nolan-093839236.html
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Jul 6, 2017 16:53
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Hodgepodge posted:I kind of want to see a story about the plight of an alien missionary trying to win human converts when it is a squid immersed in a tank because our oceans don't contain enough ammonia for its species to survive in. All the metaphors are weird and humans communicate with vibrations in a gaseous medium rather than rapid changes in skin color and the whole thing is just a mess. Gives a new spin on the ending of Europa Report.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:57
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So we make it a decade and Marvel has to reboot the entire universe.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:17
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Steve Yun posted:https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/matt-reeves-teases-emotional-batman-story-pays-tribute-christopher-nolan-093839236.html Thanks 
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Jul 6, 2017 17:20
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Thanos is gonna kill the MCU and reboot it in Avengers 4 so Spider Man Homecoming 2 is the start of new actors in the same original roles. Peter: "Hello Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, Hulk, Hawkeye!" Ben Stiller: "Sup, loser. Join Globo Gym and you won't look like a turd. Where's your hot aunt?" Triple H:*15 minute entrance to Motörhead with skulls and blood paved road* *30 minute monologue into hard camera* Chris Pine: "Yup. Ok." Gina Carano: *bites lip* *punches air sexily* Rock: "Why do I talk like Lou Ferrigno?" Tom Cruise: "I got an upgrade and I'm the leader now." *runs hard*
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Jul 6, 2017 17:39
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Gatts posted:Thanos is gonna kill the MCU and reboot it in Avengers 4 so Spider Man Homecoming 2 is the start of new actors in the same original roles. Recast Ben Stiller with a mustachioed Channing Tatum and I'm there opening night.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:45
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DC Murderverse posted:no, they didn't say anything because it's a dumb throwaway line at the very end of the movie that means literally nothing. Like Peter and Ned and everyone else call her Michelle throughout the entire movie and then at the very end she's like "uh my friends call me MJ" and then Ned says "uh you don't have any friends" and she's like "whatever". That seems separate from, and not incompatible with, my assumption.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:55
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That's dumb. That's not something Thanos would do at all. It's more of a Red Skull getting his hands on a cosmic cube situation.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:04
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Anyone can track down the source of these quotes? Reeves is talking an awful lot about Chris Nolan but Snyder made the best Batman movie of the two of them.  I'm just defending my boy Snyder because he seems to get poo poo on for dumb reasons. That Jim Halpert guy better be saying he hopes Reeves continues what the DCU/Snyder started with his whole quote:1) Take the genre seriously. 2) See that despite the influx CBMs are less diverse than ever. 3) Show a vision. Drifter fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 18:12
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Drifter posted:Reeves is talking an awful lot about Chris Nolan but Snyder made the best Batman movie of the two of them. Reeves has said that The Batman solo film is going to be different from BvS and The Batman from BvS. He said he wants to do a Noir-style Batman that is very visually minimalist. He wants to focus on Batman as a Detective and Investigator and not the grizzled guy out for revenge. He said Batman is going to be similar to Caesar in the new Planet of the Apes movie, where he is an invisible/calm force in the middle of chaos trying to figure it all out.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:24
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I really hope they for the grey and blue Bat costume.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:29
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