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Sinteres posted:As another anti-interventionist, I want to say that I think the truther poo poo about sarin is embarrassing, and I wish more people felt that it was possible to find a middle ground between continually expanding our forever war vs parroting Russian propaganda.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:10
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khwarezm posted:Does anyone have any idea if this report basically alleging that last year's coup attempt in Turkey was a false flag has any validity at all? There were also reports that it might have been Kemalist, but Erdogan wanted to blame Gulen. I don't believe them mind you. Erdogan was supposedly very close to being deposed, and only incompetence saved him. Human Grand Prix posted:Yeah War Nerd is good stuff. He's REALLY into the White Helmets conspiracy theories.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:11
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Kim Jong Il posted:
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Jul 6, 2017 02:12
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Middle East Thread of Despair: The Seymour Hershey School for the Dumb
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Jul 6, 2017 02:15
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Woozy posted:Not even 5 minutes into the interview Hersh lays out why he's on infowars at all, and he's right: it doesn't matter what the venue is in the slightest, and if LRB is going to blackball him along with all the other muppets in the imperial core then the only real choice is to go through other channels and let the conditions do the talking instead. Which, if your skull hasn't been hollowed out by liberal brain rot and 15 unbroken years of being top-to-bottom wrong about everything, are speaking quite loudly in recent months. This whole sick game of claiming fealty to facts and rationality and credibility and sources and everything else but meanwhile you're prostrated beneath the tiny nerd dick of a fat wastrel who collates youtube videos for a living is infinitely more farcical than anything Alex Jones could ever dream up. This post is mind melting.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:19
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khwarezm posted:This post is mind melting. Yeah, I love that I'm somehow a neocon imperialist hawk despite being a pacifist who's opposed every US brushfire war since Afghanistan. It definitely makes them seen reasonable.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:34
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OctaMurk posted:Lmao, people in this thread unironically defending Hersh's chat log, claiming we are all conditioned to believe what we're told, even as they buy into the biggest pile of bullshit this war has produced. Not quite; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
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Jul 6, 2017 02:37
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Brown Moses has been doing pretty good work backing up his reports with publicly available information that everyone can check out for themselves. Apparently that's a bad thing, because stuff that everyone can conceivably find themselves can automatically be discounted? Lol, he just googles stuff and reads Wikipedia. Yeah, it's collating information and that's a very useful service to provide. Most people don't have the time and knowledge of where to look to find this stuff in a reasonable amount of time. I only read like 3 articles on his site, and yes you can disagree with the conclusions drawn, I too was not 100% convinced the presented evidence was always sufficient to support the claims. However I found it refreshing compared to a lot of normal journalism in that he actually provides and contrasts sources that go beyond parroting what quoted person X or Y say. If anyone came here pointing out why what he says is wrong that would be great, but for about the last hundred pages all I see is people dropping in with really stupid ad hominems. Like almost parody stupid.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:43
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Duckbag posted:It definitely makes them seen reasonable. That's not the point of their posting.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:56
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Thug Lessons posted:Breaking My Lai and Abu Ghraib isn't good enough for you? This is straight Argument from Authority. Something isn't right because person X says it, it's right because it's consistent with the facts. Smart people make mistakes. Nothing is right just because a smart person says it. Sy Hersh's article is complete nonsense. If it didn't have Hersh's name on it you would be laughing at it, too.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:29
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Hot Take: Alex Jones wouldn't have anywhere nearly as much traction as he got (and that applies to conspiracy theorists in general) if it wasn't for the US establishment's tendency to go nuts at the thought of bombing more countries and the sloppy coverups when war crimes do happen.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:46
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khwarezm posted:This post is mind melting. That's the liberal brain rot getting to you.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:54
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So is there any evidence at all anywhere of people at Khan Sheikhoun being poisoned by anything besides sarin?
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Jul 6, 2017 03:58
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El Disco posted:That's the liberal brain rot getting to you. Are you using liberal in the "not socialist enough" sense or liberal in the "stupid hippie" sense? I can't keep my ideologue trolls straight anymore.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:58
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Cease to Hope posted:So is there any evidence at all anywhere of people at Khan Sheikhoun being poisoned by anything besides sarin? Are you doubting the word of American Soldier?
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Jul 6, 2017 04:01
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Duckbag posted:Are you using liberal in the "not socialist enough" sense or liberal in the "stupid hippie" sense? I can't keep my ideologue trolls straight anymore. Don't know. I'm not even sure which one would be the most charitable assumption.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:06
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El Disco posted:Don't know. I'm not even sure which one would be the most charitable assumption. So you don't really have a perspective, you're just hurling insults, is that right?
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Jul 6, 2017 04:25
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Duckbag posted:So you don't really have a perspective, you're just hurling insults, is that right? He's on your side. It was sarcasm.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:27
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So I guess the GCC is just going to weakly "blockade" Qatar for however long? That was all their meeting in Cairo decided today correct?
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Jul 6, 2017 04:34
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litany of gulps posted:He's on your side. It was sarcasm. Was it now? Sorry, but this thread is Poe's lawing like a motherfucker. In a universe where people will argue that Sy Hersh going on Infowars is actually cool and good, I just don't know what to think.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:34
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Duckbag posted:Was it now? Sorry, but this thread is Poe's lawing like a motherfucker. In a universe where people will argue that Sy Hersh going on Infowars is actually cool and good, I just don't know what to think. Two posts back or so the same guy was implying that Sy Hersh going on Infowars was crazy. So yes, presumably sarcasm.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:38
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In Mark Ames is full of poo poo news, I've never applied for funding or received money from the organisation in those articles Ames quoted. The writer was just giving examples of what he considered fact checking organisations, and Ames read it wrong https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/880231756099719168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Jul 6, 2017 04:45
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El Disco posted:It's hosed up because it should be OK to say "American foreign policy is poo poo that continually fucks over the ME" AND "Assad is literally killing his entire country." But no, to these people anyone who disagrees with the Great Satan is automatically good and correct. It also should be ok to say that "Assad is a mass murderer" and "The Syrian opposition are also murderous sectarian assholes" without being called and "Assad apologist" but here we are.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:20
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Human Grand Prix posted:It also should be ok to say that "Assad is a mass murderer" and "The Syrian opposition are also murderous sectarian assholes" without being called and "Assad apologist" but here we are. Does anyone itt support the FSA even a little? I've not seen anyone argue they're not murderous sectarian arseholes/don't exist.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:22
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Seriously you guys would have a lot more ground to stand on (just like Sy Hersh) if you didn't cling to the retarded Gas Truther narratives of Syrians gassing themselves which is prima facie ridiculous. You can be non-interventionist without drinking the Kool-Aid. Sinteres manages to disagree with Volkerball all the time without appearing like someone with a mental disorder or citing Infowars.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:25
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The "Hersh had to go on Infowars because the MSM wouldn't let him!!!" excuse falls apart pretty fast when you recall Counterpunch, et al have an equally-large boner for non-American fascists and don't have the stigma of being run by the guy ranting about how the Illuminati is putting chemicals in the water to turn the frogs gay.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:27
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And pointing out Sy Hersh's past breaking stories, well cool, Brown Moses broke the CIA weapons story in the New York Times and Bellingcat conclusively proved the exact vehicle that was responsible for downing MH-17 and where it came from. Brown Moses was also extensively cited in the Human Rights Watch report about Ghouta. He does solid journalism work.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:35
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Does anyone itt support the FSA even a little? I've not seen anyone argue they're not murderous sectarian arseholes/don't exist. have you met these fellows Volkerball and Al Saqr?
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Jul 6, 2017 05:45
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Figured that was more just a lust for Kurd death.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:56
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Sergg posted:And pointing out Sy Hersh's past breaking stories, well cool, Brown Moses broke the CIA weapons story in the New York Times and Bellingcat conclusively proved the exact vehicle that was responsible for downing MH-17 and where it came from. Brown Moses was also extensively cited in the Human Rights Watch report about Ghouta. He does solid journalism work. I honestly don't understand the Brown Moses hate here. I don't buy into the Russian propaganda angle, at least in the sense that I don't think the people pushing the pro-Russian agenda are actually like Russian agents or stooges or anything like that, I think they're just fart huffing trolls. I guess it has to be jealousy, like this dude had the audacity to use the tools available to all of us to make a name for himself and build a new career out of literally nothing, while thug lessons and thatfatkid use those same tools to mainline their own turds into their own mouths.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:58
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Woozy posted:Not even 5 minutes into the interview Hersh lays out why he's on infowars at all, and he's right: it doesn't matter what the venue is in the slightest, and if LRB is going to blackball him along with all the other muppets in the imperial core then the only real choice is to go through other channels and let the conditions do the talking instead. Which, if your skull hasn't been hollowed out by liberal brain rot and 15 unbroken years of being top-to-bottom wrong about everything, are speaking quite loudly in recent months. This whole sick game of claiming fealty to facts and rationality and credibility and sources and everything else but meanwhile you're prostrated beneath the tiny nerd dick of a fat wastrel who collates youtube videos for a living is infinitely more farcical than anything Alex Jones could ever dream up. When you have some actual evidence that actually supports what Hersh has to say, you can start presenting it. I feel like if you're going to call out everyone on how they've sworn fealty to facts but are really just hypocrites... you should... you know... present some loving facts. I personally respect Hersh for My Lai and Abu Ghraib, but much like Dan Rather and the Rathergate band, he may have stepped over the line on this one (see there is a pattern of respectable journalists making poo poo up sometimes). It's perfectly possible to keep a healthy skepticism of US claims about Syria (and everyone should) without automatically buying into the worst count-theories and outright CT. The world is mostly composed of grey-hat actors trying to execute on their personal agendas, so trying to reduce those complexities down to any kind of simple explanation (ideologically consistent with your views or otherwise) does a pretty serious disservice to understanding how things work. Pembroke Fuse fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 06:04
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litany of gulps posted:I honestly don't understand the Brown Moses hate here. He's a goon, and we all know how awful they are.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:26
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hitchensgoespop posted:That report came out yesterday so less than 24 hrs. hosed up when you think about it. I guess I was a little too subtle on that one. See: Darkman Fanpage posted:Oh wow REALLY? You're telling me the country that exports Wahabbism funds extremism?
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Jul 6, 2017 06:28
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Pembroke Fuse posted:When you have some actual evidence that actually supports what Hersh has to say, you can start presenting it. I feel like if you're going to call out everyone on how they've sworn fealty to facts but are really just hypocrites... you should... you know... present some loving facts. I personally respect Hersh for My Lai and Abu Ghraib, but much like Dan Rather and the Rathergate band, he may have stepped over the line on this one (see there is a pattern of respectable journalists making poo poo up sometimes). It's perfectly possible to keep a healthy skepticism of US claims about Syria (and everyone should) without automatically buying into the worst count-theories and outright CT. The world is mostly composed of grey-hat actors trying to execute on their personal agendas, so trying to reduce those complexities down to any kind of simple explanation (ideologically consistent with your views or otherwise) does a pretty serious disservice to understanding how things work. Where did I say Hersh was right about a specific question of fact? What I specifically said was that he has the right idea about how much mainstream outlets actually matter, that Brown Moses is a pathetic stooge, and D&D liberals are trash people who in my entire lifetime and posting career have not once discovered a global imperialist conflict that didn't get them hard. All three of those things are absolutely the truth. The most important difference between Hersh and Brown Moses is that Hersh can go on Alex Jones and still find an audience, whereas Brown Moses is worse than useless without being picked up by the establishment press. This is the exact definition of a useful idiot: easily ignored when it doesn't suit foreign policy objectives, inescapable when he does. His whole job is to launder intelligence, which in some sense is actually a good sign because it means the majority of people aren't as dumb as you and at least need some horseshit underdog angle before they go cheerleading Iraq 2.0 again.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:30
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Iraq broke a lot of people's brains.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:39
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litany of gulps posted:I honestly don't understand the Brown Moses hate here. I don't buy into the Russian propaganda angle, at least in the sense that I don't think the people pushing the pro-Russian agenda are actually like Russian agents or stooges or anything like that, I think they're just fart huffing trolls. I guess it has to be jealousy, like this dude had the audacity to use the tools available to all of us to make a name for himself and build a new career out of literally nothing, while thug lessons and thatfatkid use those same tools to mainline their own turds into their own mouths. Yes but have you considered that Brown Moses is a very fat goon who is goony and fatty and obviously no one should trust him on anything because he is so fat and goony? Fatty.
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Jul 6, 2017 06:54
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Gen. Ripper posted:Yes but have you considered that Brown Moses is a very fat goon who is goony and fatty and obviously no one should trust him on anything because he is so fat and goony? I am so ANGRY THAT HE COLLECTS MONEY FROM THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL BASED ON INTERNET WORK. WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT???!!!!?....
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Jul 6, 2017 06:55
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Cease to Hope posted:Iraq broke a lot of people's brains. For real. It's one of the worst long term side effects of that loving war.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:06
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Woozy posted:Where did I say Hersh was right about a specific question of fact? What I specifically said was that he has the right idea about how much mainstream outlets actually matter, that Brown Moses is a pathetic stooge, and D&D liberals are trash people who in my entire lifetime and posting career have not once discovered a global imperialist conflict that didn't get them hard. All three of those things are absolutely the truth. The most important difference between Hersh and Brown Moses is that Hersh can go on Alex Jones and still find an audience, whereas Brown Moses is worse than useless without being picked up by the establishment press. This is the exact definition of a useful idiot: easily ignored when it doesn't suit foreign policy objectives, inescapable when he does. His whole job is to launder intelligence, which in some sense is actually a good sign because it means the majority of people aren't as dumb as you and at least need some horseshit underdog angle before they go cheerleading Iraq 2.0 again. The only Bellingcat story I've personally seen get widespread media coverage is their research into the MH17 downing: do you believe that Bellingcat's findings are false in that case? The Dutch seem to take Bellingcat's work pretty seriously
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Jul 6, 2017 07:06
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Umm, there are several hundred people who regularly post in dnd and they're mostly different people than posted here ten years ago. The one constant in my experience here is that there have always been contrarian trolls like Thug Lessons who rage against the mostly imaginary dnd "hivemind." The hivemind has never been a consistent group though, it's always just "people who disagree with me." E. Pretend I quoted someone here.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:09
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