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Didnt that game have no morale mechanics so every fight was a grind to the death
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Jul 6, 2017 13:38
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Don Gato posted:My dream total war game is still the Taiping Rebellion. Imagine Fall of the Samurai on steroids, where one faction is led by a dude who thinks he is Jesus's brother and also the English are coming in with Opium War 2: Opium Harder and literally a third of the empire not under Taiping control is in open revolution. Maybe have some kind of mechanic to limit the amount of modern units (something like the Brettonian peasant mechanics) if you aren't playing a western power but it worked great in FotS, no reason it can't work on an even larger scale. That'd be an interesting setting, the Taiping are pretty much realm divide friendly. Bonus points if you get an achivement for losing/killing a general called Gordon in a siege.
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Jul 6, 2017 13:39
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Rookersh posted:That game was a great first attempt at what eventually became Warhammer. Magic is OP because the AI didn't build diverse armies, so your lords can pretty much just slaughter half the endgame armies by themselves, then teleport your heavy unit on top of whatever archers they have left. Warhammer: Dark Omen was better. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 13:46
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Also, the people still posting on TWC are grognards and or insane.
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Jul 6, 2017 13:50
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SeanBeansShako posted:Also, the people still posting on TWC are grognards and or insane. i still refuse to play as pontus
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Jul 6, 2017 13:54
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Ofaloaf posted:The concept art shared a while back looked like a viking, so combined with that map piece I'd bet it's some British Isles thing. Maybe a Groans of the Britons campaign, maybe Alfred the Great.  Not much Viking about this guy. More of an earlier Germanic or possibly Celtic warrior. Maybe 4th/5th century at the latest? Hard to say.
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Jul 6, 2017 14:04
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That dude's armor looking pop-romanesque makes me think more King Arthur/romano-britons vs saxons. gently caress yeah this would own. You could even have quest battles where you get Excalibur and the Holy Grail and stuff. If they threw in Shogun II-style aesthetic customization for Arthur where you could pimp out his armor and horse I might never play another game. EDIT: or, better yet, quest battles to recruit more Knights of the Round Table, after which they give you missions to level them up or get unique abilities. "Hey Art, it's Lance. There's this Saxon dickhead up in York whose rear end I want to kick. After this I can duel-wield swords like I did in that one Clive Owen movie. You in?" ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 14:43
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John Charity Spring posted:
The Historical New Content team is a different thing from the Historical Flashpoint team/Total War Saga. The image there is about some new Campaign DLC, probably for Atilla. Total War Saga is something different, a 'small' standalone release. (The Historical team in turn is a third different thing, making a full sized historical TW game.) I think that my suggestion of Cromwell: Total War is a good one, really. Mostly because it would minimise the overlap to do a Pike and Shot game, while the DLC team is doing more Attila, Warhammer is moving away from gunpowder factions for a bit, and the full historical game team is doing ... something. If you're talking 'table flip moments in history', the whole New Model Army and Britain as a republic should be quite interesting. OTOH they did say 'an era we've already visited'. Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 14:52
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StashAugustine posted:Didnt that game have no morale mechanics so every fight was a grind to the death Pretty much. That first turned me off the game too, but it really doesn't matter too much whether an enemy unit with 10 guys left breaks or you have to take the 2 seconds to mop them up. I absolutely adored KA1 for its gradual shift from having "real" armies to everything but your heroes being pointless. Aligning with the Sidhe so your heroes can teleport, then teleporting a champion with gear that restores HP and MP on each kill into the middle of the enemy formation, and turning on Cleave which means he kills 8 units with each strike is so amazing.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:36
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Fangz posted:The Historical New Content team is a different thing from the Historical Flashpoint team/Total War Saga. The image there is about some new Campaign DLC, probably for Atilla. Total War Saga is something different, a 'small' standalone release. (The Historical team in turn is a third different thing, making a full sized historical TW game.) I had sort of interpreted this as the Historical New Content Team deciding to make the campaign DLC into a standalone thing based on an existing game, because what they were talking about there is very similar to what they're now saying for Saga - is that not the case? Honest question, I'm quite probably confused here.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:00
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TWC chat: is anyone else here in actual academic history? Good lord, they use "HISTROICAL ACCRUACY" as the main benchmark for good/bad and idk which is worse, the crap that they tout as "accurate" or the idea that real history would make a fun video game. Back in 2010-2011 or so I was in high school but going through a college level textbook about ancient egyptian writing. Lo and behold I download this Achaemenid-era TWC mod that has proper late Egypt as a faction and prepare to geek out and subjugate the ancient Med under Pharoah's badass heel. But everything is "native language"... which for the egyptians whose language we know through vowel-less hieroglyphs and supposition we get a faction called Kmt (decent) and units called poo poo like "t3mws" and "pt'3sha" (no no no). The older I get the more irate I get about faux-accuracy in video games. Just make a fun game and gently caress off with your sperg poo poo and your poorly-hidden xenophobic agendas. That said, give me a game where we can level up Gilgamesh, Cyrus has a badass blue line, and Ramses the Great can go mano-a-mano with Moses while a firestorm of possibly-divine origin rages over the melee. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 17:29
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I'm doing summer courses at the moment and my Greek Art History prof went on a tirade about how Rome Total War would be full of poo poo if it weren't for people like her studying art history to know the proper depiction of a phalanx.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:31
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John Charity Spring posted:I had sort of interpreted this as the Historical New Content Team deciding to make the campaign DLC into a standalone thing based on an existing game, because what they were talking about there is very similar to what they're now saying for Saga - is that not the case? Honest question, I'm quite probably confused here. Nah, I think you misunderstood. There's three historical teams. The DLC team, the fullsized game team, and the flashpoint/saga team. They announced the flashpoint team in https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-07-06-17/ It does not replace the Campaign Pack DLC they talked about in that same post which that image is attached to.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That said, give me a game where we can level up Gilgamesh, Cyrus has a badass blue line, and Ramses the Great can go mano-a-mano with Moses while a firestorm of possibly-divine origin rages over the melee. Man, some kind of Old Testament era TW game that takes the various myths of the time and treats them as historical fact would be awesome. It'd basically be Dominions with realtime battles and a non-poo poo interface.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:44
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Fangz posted:Nah, I think you misunderstood. There's three historical teams. The DLC team, the fullsized game team, and the flashpoint/saga team. They announced the flashpoint team in https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-07-06-17/ It does not replace the Campaign Pack DLC they talked about in that same post which that image is attached to. Ah cool. Then yeah, this is even more intriguing.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm doing summer courses at the moment and my Greek Art History prof went on a tirade about how Rome Total War would be full of poo poo if it weren't for people like her studying art history to know the proper depiction of a phalanx. She's right - the visual depiction of pike phalanxes in Rome 2 are a part of why I loved that game. A line of 8-9 pike blocs moving across a field is one of the coolest visuals in TW.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:21
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Unzip and Attack posted:She's right - the visual depiction of pike phalanxes in Rome 2 are a part of why I loved that game. A line of 8-9 pike blocs moving across a field is one of the coolest visuals in TW. Yeah, I know graphics are second to gameplay and blah blah blah but the visual spectacle is a huge part of the TW appeal, especially post-Empire. There's a lot of people from a lot of disciplines that'd give a crapload to see what a real phalanx or legion moved and fought like. I'd love to see a future TW with the computing power to portray intra-unit movements, like romans rotating out the front line. I worked as a british infantry 1800s re-enactor for a summer. It was really fun, but really drove home how difficult it is to move in formation- we had about 40 people in heavy jackets, with 11lb rifles, in Canada. The fact that the successor armies were based around hundreds or thousands of people moving in disciplined unison with 16-foot pikes, metal armor, and shields during a mediterranean summer is mind-blowing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39im-ytNEE Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 18:36
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I'd imagine it's kind of like a cellular automata thing - you don't so much train the whole army to move in formation as you train each individual soldier how to move relative to the troops around him, and things just kind of work themselves out. The main difficulty is instilling the discipline to make sure they follow their assigned movements exactly, because if one person is out of formation then anyone next to them will be basing their movements on the incorrect positioning and it will throw off the whole line.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:56
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Pike and shot era gets brought up all the time, and as someone with next to no knowledge of the period, I have to wonder what everyone finds so fascinating about armies of halberds with shooty men mixed in?
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Jul 6, 2017 19:10
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Pike and shot is the transition Era from classical warfare styles to modern gunpowder. Like how world war 1 brought automatic weaponry and artillery to the forefront, pike and shot adapted a lot over its time period and also like ww1, got extremely ugly and violent as a result. If you want to see a microcosm of how nasty tech changes can get such as with pike and shot check out shogun 2 and how devastating gunpowder gets when applied against old style armies.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:27
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It's also a pretty cool game changer since 90% of tactical games pre-WW2 are based around units of x dudes with y weapons. Units of x dudes with BOTH y and z weapons adds a potentially very fun layer to it. The said dudes being clad in flamboyant purple and conquistador helmets is icing on the cake.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:38
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I wrote my undergrad capstone paper on the topic of combat tactics not keeping up with technology in the American Civil War. The big jump in accuracy/lethality in 19th century firearms was not reflected in the battle tactics of most Civil War generals, who grew up learning linear 18th century warfare. The results can be seen in the insane jump in combat casualty percentages from the American Revolution and the ACW. It's crazy how relatively bloodless Revolutionary battles were compared to the wholesale slaughter of Gettysburg/Shiloh where whole regiments were wiped out. That being said, I think an ACW Total War would be pretty awesome.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:29
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Unzip and Attack posted:I wrote my undergrad capstone paper on the topic of combat tactics not keeping up with technology in the American Civil War. The big jump in accuracy/lethality in 19th century firearms was not reflected in the battle tactics of most Civil War generals, who grew up learning linear 18th century warfare. The results can be seen in the insane jump in combat casualty percentages from the American Revolution and the ACW. It's crazy how relatively bloodless Revolutionary battles were compared to the wholesale slaughter of Gettysburg/Shiloh where whole regiments were wiped out. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen it yet. But tbh, the Steam community for it would be horrid. Kind of how the art section for Hearts of Iron IV is full with nazi-circle jerking.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:14
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King Arthur was not made by CA
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Jul 6, 2017 21:21
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There have been multiple Gettysburg games but I can't recall any that encompass the whole war.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:21
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Unzip and Attack posted:I wrote my undergrad capstone paper on the topic of combat tactics not keeping up with technology in the American Civil War. The big jump in accuracy/lethality in 19th century firearms was not reflected in the battle tactics of most Civil War generals, who grew up learning linear 18th century warfare. The results can be seen in the insane jump in combat casualty percentages from the American Revolution and the ACW. It's crazy how relatively bloodless Revolutionary battles were compared to the wholesale slaughter of Gettysburg/Shiloh where whole regiments were wiped out. The neat thing about FOTS is basically early to mid 19th century firearms are very well represented alongside the obvious leaps in damage dealing they do.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:24
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Fall of the Samurai gets really unwieldy late game and the naval combat is an abysmal slog unless you like throwing ships away in auto-resolve, but late game rifle battles are probably my favourite combat in any total war game. There is just something magical about leveling an entire fortress with four sets of armstrong guns and offshore bombardment before charging in like its the goddamn Alamo. The Choshu are super overpowered thanks to their Kihetai special infantry. Modern rifles, decent melee stats, a morale aura around them, and they don't have a hard cap like foreign Marines. You can basically ignore Imperial infantry altogether and it makes transitioning to a Republic much easier since you don't automatically lose half your armies as you get locked out of Imperial military tech. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 21:32
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:There have been multiple Gettysburg games but I can't recall any that encompass the whole war. http://store.steampowered.com/app/502520/Ultimate_General_Civil_War/ It's even made by Darth, of Darthmod fame and it's pretty good actually. It's good to see someone trying to do the same scale of tactical battles as a Total War and do it competently.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:37
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I'd really like a Kingdoms-style Victorian game. Don't attempt a global map, just have like ACW, German Unification, Scramble for Africa, and choose one of Crimea/Triple Alliance/Opium and Taiping/India and Great Game Scramble for Africa could be a really fun total war especially if you could take Ethiopia or Zulu or Sokoto or something, modernize, and kick euro rear end, but would sadly also be a breeding ground for nazi fetish wankers. Does it seriously weird anyone else out how "historical accuracy!!" people will cry for days about female military leaders or indians conquering Europe or whatever but be totally happy to have pagan vikings reform the Roman Empire or 15th-century Byzantium convert the entire Middle East back to good honest white christians? Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 21:38
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Arcsquad12 posted:Fall of the Samurai gets really unwieldy late game and the naval combat is an abysmal slog unless you like throwing ships away in auto-resolve, but late game rifle battles are probably my favourite combat in any total war game. There is just something magical about leveling an entire fortress with four sets of armstrong guns and offshore bombardment before charging in like its the goddamn Alamo. Yeah one of the things about Total Warhammer is that the gunpowder units are balanced against the infantry/bow units (since it's not trying to be realistic at all) so you don't really feel the same sense of power using them that you would in a historical game. Guns were a game-changer in real life and it's fun to play in an era where that is represented.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
Nazi Germany promoted Norse mythology in their propaganda, and most of the grogs on TWC are at least somewhat fascist if not outright.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:51
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I popped up the other day to see what was up on TWC and amongst the first news is a Classical Age Total War mod with this image at the front. Historically accurate or not, maybe don't feature six Swasticas in your splash image - one of which is in the logo which is not a historical thing at all, just an idea. Unless, oh.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:02
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ZearothK posted:I popped up the other day to see what was up on TWC and amongst the first news is a Classical Age Total War mod with this image at the front. I like that the dude's shield is a generic variant featured in many cultures, whereas the logo makes sure to be orientated just like the nazi one.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:04
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I'd really like a Kingdoms-style Victorian game. Don't attempt a global map, just have like ACW, German Unification, Scramble for Africa, and choose one of Crimea/Triple Alliance/Opium and Taiping/India and Great Game This is sort of what I am hoping for the Flashpoint stuff. The Crimean War would be a great one especially for alt history where Imperial Russia decides it can also take on Austria-Hungary, the Ottomans say gently caress this noise and attempt to retake Greece and Anglo-French relations break down entirely.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:45
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Quick Rome 2 question. My favorite part of Rome 1 was the experience of growing Rome alongside the AI. You'd have the Julii going north to fight the Barbarians, the Scipii going south to fight Carthage, and the Brutii going east to fight Greeks. It led to this great campaign where I could scroll to any part of the map and see our borders expanding, despite the fact I only ever had to focus on my own corner. And it helped make the whole thing feel grander/more Roman, since we were all in it together ( but politically I knew those assholes were going to turn on me once I got strong enough. ). Any mods that add that back into Rome 2? It feels really lovely just starting as "Rome" who already owns all of Italy, and is just told to go north. Also is there a mod that makes the UI cards more readable? And should I mod out Imperium? It seems counterintuitive to have a system in place to discourage/penalize conquest in a Total War game. If I do mod it out, what's the best mod for it.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:46
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ZearothK posted:http://store.steampowered.com/app/502520/Ultimate_General_Civil_War/ I enjoyed playing this and kind of want to play it more, but there's some pretty important caveats to saying its "good". Largely, the documentation of the game is nonexistant, and the UI is very bad. Why are your guns not firing despite having LOS? Why are enemy cannons allowed to fire at you while engaged in melee? Why are my skirmishers routing with zero causalities and 200 kills? What influences morale/energy recovery/depletion rates? What does good terrain really do? And so on and so forth. There's a steam guide written by a dev that has some answers if you know of its existence, but its also delivered in a fairly patronizing way, because our game is so full of verisimilitude True Ultimate General will be able to grok our game mechanics via common sense. I'm not a fan of intentionally obfuscating game mechanics, so, yeah, kind of irritating to be expected to ~figure it out~. Also the Super Helpful Unit Assistance AI which was made to eliminate the need for micro!, will do things like have a unit waddle away slowly from their good cover because they're being shot at, blocking off the shooting lines of your other units. You can tell them to not do that by telling them to Hold Ground or whatever, but then they refuse to turn to shoot anything, and if you issue them any order at all, the Assistant AI will take over and override your orders with their own creative interpretation. It does nothing at all to improve micro, in lieu of making micro more annoying and fiddly. Like, I put all my cannons on a nearby hill, to shoot at the enemy as they assemble and advance at my lines. They refuse to fire. I tell them to fire. An arrow appears, then disappears. I check LOS; they can see what they're meant to shoot at. Nothing is apparently blocking them, but I can't tell because the map is fairly stylized and pretty but also lacking concrete definitions for what the various terrain types do, or the height of things (or if, say, your guns are on a massive hill behind your lines, can they shoot over your lines? (Or do they get PENALTIES, which are never defined, or indicated), or whatever. I order them to shoot again. This time, the arrow sticks around, so I go do something else (Yes, New York 23rd, I would enjoy it if you turned around to face the people shooting at you, thank you, also please shoot back, thank you), then look back and see, that they haven't shot at all, still. I'm playing union, my better cannons are supposed to be one of my strengths, but the rebel cannons are tearing me apart from a forested hill behind their lines (or just, directly in front of their lines, by themselves, in a giant cluster, that you can never actually attack, because even if you charge them, they can still shoot you in melee combat), so I check again. The arrow is now pointing at something they cannot shoot at for sure, because the Assist AI decided to be helpful. I send another order to shoot at the confederate deathball; the arrow them redraws itself back to the unit from before. There are no symbols indicating what the loving problem is. No voice clips saying WE CANT SHOOT THEM, nothing at all. Just a collection, of smiling, inbred, Irish degenerates, slowly polishing the cannons, whistling a merry tune, while I, the would-be Ultimate General, scowl from the trees, attempting to solve my conundrum via the power of Common Sense, mainly, wondering if them being shot themselves would provide the correct motivation. Suddenly, they fire, at a completely different unit, that just appeared in some woods a mile off. Good enough! I return my attention to trying to get the Assistant AI to stop having my elite regiment shift backwards off their 100 cover perch, into a barn where the rest of the line had slowly waddled into, for no discernible reason. I had a friend listening to me talk while playing it, and he made fun of the fact I kept insisting "oh its actually pretty good" despite every other comment being a complaint about the game being obnoxious. I still think its alright, and I'm certain that once I spend my requisite 40 hours humbling myself before the temple of the Darth, I will attain some of the lesser qualities of the battlefield gods of yore, and be able to play the video game without being irritated. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 06:24
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Instead of a pointless 30 years war game (remember Napoleon, the fairly crashy TW game of moving your faction's doomstack into one town after the other until you got bored or won? It's that but it will run slower), or yet more stuff about England (zzz), they should just do unhistorical mashup China total war. Ming arquebusiers getting charged by Shang chariots, Shaolin warrior monks + elephants from Tibet fighting Xiongnu horse tribes, Han crossbowmen seeing off Manchu banners, all with a turn counter but no year counter because it's Just For Fun. (obvious expansions: 3 Kingdoms with entirely historical spells, Taiping Rebellion/Opium Wars with a smackhead corruption mechanic)
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Jul 7, 2017 07:16
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Unzip and Attack posted:That being said, I think an ACW Total War would be pretty awesome. The ACW is probably the most-requested historical setting for a TW game and so I have to wonder if it's a longterm goal for the "Flashpoint" team if only because the main line of games typically focus on conflicts that last a significantly longer amount of time, with a wider geographic scope, and aren't confined to a single war. Rookersh posted:And should I mod out Imperium? It seems counterintuitive to have a system in place to discourage/penalize conquest in a Total War game. If I do mod it out, what's the best mod for it. You're not going to miss out on anything if you mod it out of your game. It makes such a small difference in the overall game that I never even bothered to look for a mod to do it, though. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Does it seriously weird anyone else out how "historical accuracy!!" people will cry for days about female military leaders or indians conquering Europe or whatever but be totally happy to have pagan vikings reform the Roman Empire or 15th-century Byzantium convert the entire Middle East back to good honest white christians? Nobody actually ever wants historical accuracy. They say they do, they may honestly think they do, but it's just an easy justification for why this feature they don't like should be removed, or why a certain feature or playable faction should be added. It's "but muh immersion!" for the Grand Strategy community. New Butt Order fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 07:19
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I am not sure the ACW would ever be a thing because why would you want it.it would be so god drat boring.
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Jul 7, 2017 07:22
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Personally, I don't really care either way, but since people have been asking for it since before I started playing these games over a decade ago, I'd be surprised if it isn't on the list of potential historical settings.
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Jul 7, 2017 07:27
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