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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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RedSpider posted:Thats the problem, there is none. That civil war has been going on for six years now and she hasn't given an answer on Assad. You flat-out said that she wants regime change two posts ago. My God, man, have some self-respect and admit that you were wrong.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:29
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Nothing makes me side-eye white American leftists more than spending months (rightfully) saying the democrats need to field better candidates and then floating Tulsi loving Gabbard. Hey man, you're the one that wants an old white lady to run again.  Majorian posted:You flat-out said that she wants regime change two posts ago. My God, man, have some self-respect and admit that you were wrong. I don't really see it that way. Why won't she publicly say no to regime change in Syria?
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Jul 6, 2017 08:32
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RedSpider posted:I don't really see it that way. Why won't she publicly say no to regime change in Syria? This is what you posted: RedSpider posted:You're making GBS threads me, right? She says Assad needs to be 'handled' and removed. Supporting Assad's stay is career suicide in the DNC right now. Stop trying to distract from the fact that you couldn't back up this claim.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:33
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Majorian posted:This is what you posted: Okay, I worded that poorly. I admit it. Now, answer my question please?
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Jul 6, 2017 08:34
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RedSpider posted:Okay, I worded that poorly. I admit it. Now, answer my question please? Here's a prose tip: when you use quotation marks it generally implies you're quoting someone rather than projecting your assumptions on their lack of a statement.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:36
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RedSpider posted:Okay, I worded that poorly. I admit it. Now, answer my question please? The reason why she hasn't said no to regime change in Syria is because, if Assad decides to start launching more chemical attacks against civilians, she would end up looking pretty stupid to a lot of voters. At this point, her criticizing the Trump administration's interventionism is a perfectly adequate response from her.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:36
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I don't really understand the point of this particular discussion with regard to a theoretical future version of the Democrats that could be considered anything better than a complete loving waste. Why should the American left be so very concerned about the fate of a doomed country in the middle east, exactly? I can't see much reason for the average person to give a poo poo what happens to Syria when they've got no healthcare and are making $4/hour or whatever the minimum wage in most of America is. I think enough people are getting wise to the fact that this is just going to be the way of things for a long long time in the parts of the world that are getting hosed over by climate change the worst. Whatever pitiful influence the American left can momentarily pull together before being torn apart by infighting should probably be directed toward worrying about what's going on inside the country rather than on the other side of the world.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:46
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ChairMaster posted:I don't really understand the point of this particular discussion with regard to a theoretical future version of the Democrats that could be considered anything better than a complete loving waste. I dunno man, why does the left care about things that aren't them personally? Crazypants
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Jul 6, 2017 09:13
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ChairMaster posted:I don't really understand the point of this particular discussion with regard to a theoretical future version of the Democrats that could be considered anything better than a complete loving waste. Help me understand how this goes against the idea that America shouldn't be intervening in the Middle East then
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Jul 6, 2017 09:25
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Tulsi's behavior re:Syria indicates she is probably on the take with Putin, which is a good enough to reason to never let her sniff higher office.
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Jul 6, 2017 09:25
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dont even fink about it posted:Tulsi's behavior re:Syria indicates she is probably on the take with Putin, which is a good enough to reason to never let her sniff higher office. The neo-McCarthyist has entered the thread.
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Jul 6, 2017 09:56
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Here's a better reason not to run Gabbard, literally no one outside of this forum has heard of her. Running a total unknown versus an incumbent candidate is not a recipe for success.
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Jul 6, 2017 11:49
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I'm willing to entertain other arguments as to why Tulsi's rhetoric on Syria matches RT's exactly, and why she ignored all diplomatic and government conventions to do publicity work for Assad with Dennis Kucinich, who for his part has gone one step further and become a Trump surrogate.
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Jul 6, 2017 11:53
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dont even fink about it posted:I'm willing to entertain other arguments as to why Tulsi's rhetoric on Syria matches RT's exactly, and why she ignored all diplomatic and government conventions to do publicity work for Assad with Dennis Kucinich, who for his part has gone one step further and become a Trump surrogate. Oh my god please don't.
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Jul 6, 2017 13:02
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I don't give a gently caress what some rear end in a top hat said about some other Indian rear end in a top hat if she promises to give my family healthcare and better jobs, tbqhChairMaster posted:I don't really understand the point of this particular discussion with regard to a theoretical future version of the Democrats that could be considered anything better than a complete loving waste. loving exactly, these comfortable corporate/college "leftists" will learn this soon enough. Nobody gives a gently caress about Syria and no one in America will ever change their votes because of it when they're loving dying due to cops, opiates, and lack of money. Maslow's hierarchy is a bitch. call to action fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 14:58
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call to action posted:I don't give a gently caress what some rear end in a top hat said about some other Indian rear end in a top hat if she promises to give my family healthcare and better jobs, tbqh Hey, remember when you wanted me to quote you saying something regressive? "gently caress them if I'm gonna get mine" isn't a good look.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:01
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WampaLord posted:Hey, remember when you wanted me to quote you saying something regressive? Red text me with it then, rear end in a top hat. We need economic populism now if we want to avoid full on fascism. The next crash will bring fascism to the US if we don't try to stop it now.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:01
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Hey everybody, just popping in to say you can stop debating this, good old Mark Penn has the answers for you!Back to the Center, Democrats posted:The path back to power for the Democratic Party today, as it was in the 1990s, is unquestionably to move to the center and reject the siren calls of the left, whose policies and ideas have weakened the party. You heard it folks!
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Jul 6, 2017 15:02
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Mozi posted:Hey everybody, just popping in to say you can stop debating this, good old Mark Penn has the answers for you! This is why I cringe at people hoping Trump gets impeached or even killed. There's a lot of non-trump republicans you could see Very Serious Democrats compromising with. Trump at least makes it clear that they're all horrible, whereas I could see Pence appealing to career democrats obsessed with looking professional and adult. Keep on posting WWE memes, president. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 15:05
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Mozi posted:Hey everybody, just popping in to say you can stop debating this, good old Mark Penn has the answers for you! The thing that gives me hope is that all of the comments are calling it out as loving insane.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:06
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WampaLord posted:The thing that gives me hope is that all of the comments are calling it out as loving insane. Why would that give you hope?
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Jul 6, 2017 15:18
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Why would that give you hope? That even NYT readers are realizing that centrism is a loving dying ideology.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:19
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Mozi posted:Hey everybody, just popping in to say you can stop debating this, good old Mark Penn has the answers for you!
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Jul 6, 2017 15:22
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WampaLord posted:That even NYT readers are realizing that centrism is a loving dying ideology. The opinion of the public has little to zero interaction with what the democratic party leadership and commentators do or say, as well as having almost no impact on policy. Cool to watch them get roasted all the same, though.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:25
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Upthread it was asked what could be done to win 2018 and a lot of obvious answers were given, so I figure I'd Xpost a less obvious point:Neurolimal posted:There's also the issue where republicans are much, much better at motivating their base. It doesn't matter if you have twice the other parties' registrations if only a third of them are interested in actually voting for the party candidate. Contrary to what centrist dems would have you believe, contested primaries are exactly what result in stronger candidates, and its ironic that the officials most likely to believe in a Free Market would be so opposed to the biggest regulators in that concept (competition). It's what weeds out people like Cruz and Jeb!.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:25
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:The opinion of the public has little to zero interaction with what the democratic party leadership and commentators do or say, as well as having almost no impact on policy. The opinion of the public has a lot to do with how they vote, though.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:26
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WampaLord posted:The opinion of the public has a lot to do with how they vote, though. Sorta, but that usually doesn't get translated into policy anyway (unless you are rich)
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Jul 6, 2017 15:51
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:The opinion of the public has little to zero interaction with what the democratic party leadership and commentators do or say, as well as having almost no impact on policy. It will when we primary all of their asses
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Jul 6, 2017 15:55
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Feldegast42 posted:It will when we primary all of their asses Probably a little more complex than that.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:13
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Feldegast42 posted:It will when we primary all of their asses twodot fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 16:28
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dont even fink about it posted:I'm willing to entertain other arguments as to why Tulsi's rhetoric on Syria matches RT's exactly, and why she ignored all diplomatic and government conventions to do publicity work for Assad with Dennis Kucinich, who for his part has gone one step further and become a Trump surrogate. I hear Seth Rich was gonna expose this and then he turned up dead.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:44
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call to action posted:Red text me with it then, rear end in a top hat. We need economic populism now if we want to avoid full on fascism. The next crash will bring fascism to the US if we don't try to stop it now. So your solution is to nominate someone who is both mostly unknown, and also has some really execrable opinions that would turn off a sizable portion of the Democratic base. Brilliant. And also your opinions on Gabbard are pretty FYGM. Mozi posted:Hey everybody, just popping in to say you can stop debating this, good old Mark Penn has the answers for you! Holy  Not a hint of self-awareness in him, is there?
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Jul 6, 2017 17:13
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Majorian posted:So your solution is to nominate someone who is both mostly unknown, and also has some really execrable opinions that would turn off a sizable portion of the Democratic base. Brilliant. I'm not sure you have the best track record at predicting what's going to happen re: voter response If wanting my American brothers, sisters, and non-conforming individuals of all races and ethnicities to succeed even if we can't save everyone else in other countries is FYGM, then I guess I'm FYGM.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:15
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Neurolimal posted:Economic leftism does not need to be colorblind. Neither do we have to ignore the fact that generic economic leftism will help black communities, even if it will not help them as equally as white communities. Actually, it will help them more, as minorities have disproportionately higher rates of extreme poverty, hunger, lack of healthcare, etc.. They will realize the biggest personal improvements, and faster.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:16
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call to action posted:I'm not sure you have the best track record at predicting what's going to happen re: voter response Yeah I bet you're real supportive of your races and ethnicities in regards to known Islamaphobe Tulsi Gabbard
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Jul 6, 2017 17:26
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Jaxyon posted:I dunno man, why does the left care about things that aren't them personally? Crazypants I understand your argument here, but this logic has a limit. If you take "America shouldn't prioritize its citizens over people in other countries" to its logical conclusion, then America should redirect a huge portion, if not all, of its current safety net spending (as well as other spending) towards poor countries (since a person living in poverty in a third world nation is usually worse off than a person living in poverty in the US). In practice this is a dumb idea, because less money directed to American citizens would end up harming domestic economic productivity and result in less to spend in the long term (without risk of an excessive increase in inflation, at least). In theory I'm all for removing borders and eliminating the existence of separate countries, but until that happens nations should prioritize the people who live there (and this includes undocumented immigrants in my opinion, since they also contribute to the domestic economy). One other thing that really rubs me the wrong way about this sort of argument is that it's usually made by liberals who never apply the same logic to the issue of dramatically raising taxes, instituting a wealth tax, or anything else that would significantly decrease domestic wealth inequality. They'll argue in favor of sweatshops because the people living in those countries might be technically better off than if there were no foreign investment at all, but they never bring up the idea of just taxing the wealth of the rich and greatly increasing its redistribution to the poor. As a result, it ends up coming off like a concern troll argument rather than serious concern for the global poor. call to action posted:I don't give a gently caress what some rear end in a top hat said about some other Indian rear end in a top hat if she promises to give my family healthcare and better jobs, tbqh Honest question - aside from supporting Bernie, what has Gabbard said that makes you think she's particularly leftist? I haven't seen any rhetoric from her that differs significantly from a number of other Democrats (on the topic of economic leftism, that is), and she doesn't really have much of a history of advocating for leftist causes so I don't see any reason to place much trust in her. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 17:30
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call to action posted:I'm not sure you have the best track record at predicting what's going to happen re: voter response I've been correct on every election call I've made over the past several years, except for Hillary losing - which is obviously an important one, but come on, even Trump was sure he was going to lose. So I'm not sure this is quite the zing you think it is. quote:If wanting my American brothers, sisters, and non-conforming individuals of all races and ethnicities to succeed even if we can't save everyone else in other countries is FYGM, then I guess I'm FYGM. Except for, you know, Gabbard being anti-marriage equality and being extremely likely to crack down on Muslim civil liberties if she's elected to the presidency.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:35
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah I bet you're real supportive of your races and ethnicities in regards to known Islamaphobe Tulsi Gabbard At least I didn't vote for a slaveowner Ytlaya posted:Honest question - aside from supporting Bernie, what has Gabbard said that makes you think she's particularly leftist? I haven't seen any rhetoric from her that differs significantly from a number of other Democrats (on the topic of economic leftism, that is), and she doesn't really have much of a history of advocating for leftist causes so I don't see any reason to place much trust in her. She supports single payer and all the idiots who are always wrong about poo poo hate her, which is pretty much good enough for me.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:36
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call to action posted:She supports single payer and all the idiots who are always wrong about poo poo hate her, which is pretty much good enough for me. Then you're an idiot who really shouldn't vote.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:37
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Majorian posted:Then you're an idiot who really shouldn't vote. Aww, but I do. And I live in a swing state, too!
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Jul 6, 2017 17:37
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