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Oxyclean posted:Nah, Savage mode shouldn't have drops. Why do you need better gear if you can kill the hardest stuff? The reward should be the sense of accomplishment and the friends you lost along the way! Savage might as well not drop gear either, since they seem intent on making every other patch be a complete gear reset.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:48
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Shy posted:So make it a bit easier so you can. hth i am not a game developer for ffxiv hth
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Jul 6, 2017 17:49
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Fister Roboto posted:Savage might as well not drop gear either, since they seem intent on making every other patch be a complete gear reset. welcome to mmos that arent ffxi?
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Jul 6, 2017 17:50
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Fister Roboto posted:Savage might as well not drop gear either, since they seem intent on making every other patch be a complete gear reset. Unless they're going to go back to FFXI design and make some pieces of gear relevant for years on end (something I should say I generally like but that brings with it its own huge suite of issues), that's the best way to handle it. When gear is largely just linear item level upgrades, and you want to lure as many people back in with each major patch as possible, it's best not to make people who skipped a couple patch cycles come back super far behind with no quick way to catch up to the "current" content, y'know? I definitely have my issues with FFXIV's gear design--I think going for linear power upgrades is really boring and I wish there was gear that had effects beyond higher numbers, or things like set bonuses, all of that--they've gone a couple expansions without making any moves to change it so I'd rather have gear resets that streamline the process when you jump back in after a few months than an ever-lengthening treadmill.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:52
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In WoW later on ilvl became king, but there were times where itemization made previous tier items best in slot, and not every tier had every type of item. I don't miss trinket itemization though.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:55
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Harrow posted:Unless they're going to go back to FFXI design and make some pieces of gear relevant for years on end (something I should say I generally like but that brings with it its own huge suite of issues), that's the best way to handle it. When gear is largely just linear item level upgrades, and you want to lure as many people back in with each major patch as possible, it's best not to make people who skipped a couple patch cycles come back super far behind with no quick way to catch up to the "current" content, y'know? I'm pretty sure you can make it easy to catch up without making gear from the previous tier immediately irrelevant when the new one comes out.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:58
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In my ideal MMO, gear is about what it does for you, not about how high its numbers are. I like equipment that actually changes something about your abilities other than their numbers, and I like it when equipment isn't about an ever-increasing item level forever and ever and that's it. But I also recognize that FFXIV is not that game, it isn't built that way, and it probably shouldn't be, given the kind of game it is. I still wish there were things like set bonuses or cool unique accessories that do cool things, really anything to inject some excitement into itemization.Fister Roboto posted:I'm pretty sure you can make it easy to catch up without making gear from the previous tier immediately irrelevant when the new one comes out. I mean, if you mean just have smaller item level jumps, I'm not entirely opposed to that. I didn't play during Heavensward but looking at it now, the difference between starting level 60 gear and Shire gear is insane. I'd assume that having big ilevel jumps makes it easier to balance new tiers--you want people to need new gear to complete new stuff, and smaller gaps in ilevel means you're going to have to balance it really tightly, which has its own problems--but it does have the side effect of totally invalidating gear very quickly. It's entirely possible I'm missing your meaning, though.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:02
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But if the new stuff isn't better than my old stuff, why do I care about it? Sides, being at the tippy-top of the line in terms of item level is only important if you're doing Savage. For everything else, you can do just fine squeaking by on the minimum item level requirement. Source: every tank I had in castrum abania, holy hell why are you so SQUISHY oh, unaugmented shire
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Jul 6, 2017 18:05
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Make all the bathing suits raid only. The outrage would be incredible.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:10
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nuru posted:Make all the bathing suits raid only. The outrage would be incredible. 
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Jul 6, 2017 18:16
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Whcih role actions should I be prioritizing as a Dragoon?
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Jul 6, 2017 18:17
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 these new hats are good
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Jul 6, 2017 18:18
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nuru posted:Make all the bathing suits raid only. The outrage would be incredible.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:19
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The Deltascape sets are almost painfully ugly. I have no glamour game and I don't care about glamour, and even I think they look terrible.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:23
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Bleu posted:The Deltascape sets are almost painfully ugly. I have no glamour game and I don't care about glamour, and even I think they look terrible. No they are real good & the weeb expansion needed to have Tall Hats.  The shogun set is cute as heck on Lalafell
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Jul 6, 2017 18:32
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Harrow posted:In my ideal MMO, gear is about what it does for you, not about how high its numbers are. I like equipment that actually changes something about your abilities other than their numbers, and I like it when equipment isn't about an ever-increasing item level forever and ever and that's it. But I also recognize that FFXIV is not that game, it isn't built that way, and it probably shouldn't be, given the kind of game it is. I still wish there were things like set bonuses or cool unique accessories that do cool things, really anything to inject some excitement into itemization. The problem is the crafted gear. Before Creator came out, the highest ilevel you could get was 245 for weapons and 240 for armor. The new crafted gear in 3.4 was 250, so you made a set and threw all your raid gear away. You might keep a piece or two for accuracy, but it was perfectly feasible to completely replace your old BIS set on day one of the patch. Of course, before 3.2, crafted gear was nearly worthless, so it sounds like they overcorrected. If it had been 240 I think it would have been fine.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:48
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem is the crafted gear. Before Creator came out, the highest ilevel you could get was 245 for weapons and 240 for armor. The new crafted gear in 3.4 was 250, so you made a set and threw all your raid gear away. You might keep a piece or two for accuracy, but it was perfectly feasible to completely replace your old BIS set on day one of the patch. Of course, before 3.2, crafted gear was nearly worthless, so it sounds like they overcorrected. If it had been 240 I think it would have been fine. I think that's hard to avoid when you have expansions that raise the level cap. I remember in WoW you like instantly got regular quest drops in Lich King that were better than dungeon gear from Burning Crusade. You gotta make the content worthwhile for the gear-driven people, and in the game where gear = numbers, that means numbers have to go up.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:59
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Saint Freak posted:I did a pony farm with goons once. The person that started it got super mad they didn't get the first drop and quit and then everyone else petered out. lmao this owns I ran through all the primals with goons and we didn't get a single pony drop. Then I punched them a few times with my friend, just 2 of us, and we got 2 of them to drop 
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Jul 6, 2017 19:00
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Harrow posted:In my ideal MMO, gear is about what it does for you, not about how high its numbers are. I like equipment that actually changes something about your abilities other than their numbers, and I like it when equipment isn't about an ever-increasing item level forever and ever and that's it. But I also recognize that FFXIV is not that game, it isn't built that way, and it probably shouldn't be, given the kind of game it is. I still wish there were things like set bonuses or cool unique accessories that do cool things, really anything to inject some excitement into itemization. Let me introduce you to my friend the Dragonspine Trophy.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:05
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i'm always a bit  about raiding with goons because i'm a.) super indecisive on classes i want to play and b.) always worried that i'm the bad in the group being carried.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:06
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:i'm always a bit Spoilers: Most of us are the bads. There's just a few superhuman goons that end up carrying the rest of us.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:21
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Speaking of rank VI materia, has anyone crunched the numbers and figured out if it's better to meld critical hit or direct hit when given the choice? I'm not sure if the numbers or even the idea behind it are accurate, so take it for what it is, but I read a reddit post that roughly 3000 crit is the point where crit outweighs a similar amount of direct hit. Crit still affects both rate and potency, where as direct hit only affects rate and is a static 25% increase in potency. The overall theoretical effective differences were said to be incredibly small beforehand though. However if you're a job with important crit mechanics, like Bard and Monk, Crit is always superior. Skaw fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 19:22
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Zaphod42 posted:lmao this owns I'm thinking now that they show up in Khloe's book I'll get them all eventually. At least one of the ones I do have is Shiva's which has my favorite song.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:27
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Yiguri is making it difficult to like her Zenos basically swatted away the WOL, who has slayed gods, like she was a fly. How could she possibly think she stood a chance of killing him?
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Jul 6, 2017 19:27
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:i'm always a bit ...I really need to go ahead and install a damage meter...
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Jul 6, 2017 19:27
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Zaphod42 posted:...I really need to go ahead and install a damage meter... Third Paty Tools Are Against the EULA I understand that they get used a lot but regardless the fact that you don't have some random pub in a roulette waving their dick around is one of the things I like about this game.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:29
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:i'm always a bit the first step toward not being bad is practicing, which in this case involves raiding.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:30
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damage meter story time: i did a susano ex clear party two days ago where any time there was a wipe this samurai (i assume he was either the leader or a friend of the leader, i forget) kept poo poo talking everyone, and naming and shaming the tanks when they did something wrong. i consulted Ye Olde Damage Meter and lo and behold he was by far the lowest dps, barely higher than the offtank and a good 60% of the other dps. my friends and i left after that.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:33
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Third Paty Tools Are Against the EULA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U&feature=youtu.be&t=6m2s YoshiP said its okay. log parsers won't be caught unless you announce that poo poo and nobody cares, tons of people use them. Not the same as a mod that directly touches the game. You get banned for bots. AFAIK FFXIV doesn't have any spyware poo poo like Warden so there's no way for them to know if you aren't actually modding the game.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:36
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Harrow posted:In my ideal MMO, gear is about what it does for you, not about how high its numbers are. I like equipment that actually changes something about your abilities other than their numbers, and I like it when equipment isn't about an ever-increasing item level forever and ever and that's it. But I also recognize that FFXIV is not that game, it isn't built that way, and it probably shouldn't be, given the kind of game it is. I still wish there were things like set bonuses or cool unique accessories that do cool things, really anything to inject some excitement into itemization. I think it really comes down to two different factors: 1 - Complexity for developer (wrt balace) 2 - Complexity for player (wrt gear choice) As for the first factor, allowing gear to "change things" is a hard thing to balance. How far do you take it? How much does it change things? Are we talking changes like having a 4-piece set bonus be "Black Mage Flare spell now adds a damage over time component equal to 10% of initial spell's damage" or are we talking changes like "The AST spell Benefic is changed to be a HoT instead of direct heal"? In some cases you'll end up sit items like I mentioned a few posts ago: The Dragonspine Trophy. It was a WoW item from one of the entry tier raid bosses (Gruul) in the first expansion (The Burning Crusade). It's effects were that it gave a boost to attack power and then any of your abilities had a chance to grant you 10 seconds of big boost of haste (with a 30 second hidden cooldown). This item was god tier in that expansion. Almost every DPS wanted it. It was dropped off the first major boss of the expansion and used by people throughout the expansion. I'm pretty sure many DPS even used it part way through the next expansion as well. So then the developers have 3 options. They can significantly buff the stat increase for every tier so that there is no way a previous tier's items would be better (but then this leads to massive stat inflation), they could make it so that the changes are so minor that it could never be a "hold onto this forever" item (but then why even add these features in the first place), or they could just be okay with players picking an item and using it across multiple tiers (but then why even create replacement items in later tiers). Each option has its pitfalls. As for the second factor, as soon as you start adding bonuses to gear that go beyond "This gear has +5 Strength over the previous tier" it adds a level of complexity to picking out gear that most players just aren't going to engage with. While playing currently, as soon as you get a new piece of gear in a new tier, you know you can equip it and it will be better. Most players aren't going to eyeball it and say "Well, this one increases my Int +10, but this one adds a dot to flare. But which is the higher DPS increase?" I don't want to make it seem like I'm making GBS threads all over your thoughts on this, because I really like the idea in theory. I always liked the idea of set bonuses and special gear features. The problem is that there are so many pitfalls we don't think about with it.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:38
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theblackw0lf posted:Yiguri is making it difficult to like her Yugiri is basically in a position where she is being driven to do something, anything, to provide her people with hope. Her master intends to commit suicide by Imperial Jackass if he thinks that his people truly do not want to be free. If she has to throw herself into a woodchipper to provide her people with suitable motivation to rise up she will.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:40
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speaking of log parsing, I always wondered, was there a reason a link to ACT was included in the OP's list of convenient links? I'm horribly paranoid about internet downloads, so I'm always a little leery of just google searching without knowing the website url name ahead of time because the possibility of some sort of imitator site hosting malware. Incredibly unlikely and I know it's not logical, but there you go, a small insight into my incredibly broken psychology.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:42
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theblackw0lf posted:Yiguri is making it difficult to like her She was hoping to assassinate him, which isn't the worst plan but she half-assed it. If she'd gone full Luca Blight on him maybe.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:45
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ImpAtom posted:She was hoping to assassinate him, which isn't the worst plan but she half-assed it. If she'd gone full Luca Blight on him maybe. I was WONDERING who it was that Zenos reminded me of... 
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Jul 6, 2017 19:49
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I'm curious what the WoL's Garlean body count is at the end of 4.0? Having to come face-to-face with the consequences of murderhobing away problems is probably the most interesting direction the story can take. I was pretty disappointed in DRK's 60-SB quest when we met the one person in Ishgard who didn't know who the Warrior of Light was
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Jul 6, 2017 19:50
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Mordiceius posted:I think it really comes down to two different factors: I think the problem with set bonuses, etc. is that A. They've always been attached to items with stats which will definitely become outclassed in relatively short order. So even if a set bonus is fun, if it's not stupidly good in a way the developers probably did not intend or forsee, then no matter how much you like the changes it applies, you'll have to abandon them B. They're often too bombastic in the potency of their effects (and oftentimes hideously uncreative, such as the mentioned dragonspine trophy and its haste) If I had to do set bonuses, I'd keep the potency of any effects they applied smallish (or have them apply changes to abilities that don't affect their overall numbers but more in how they function) and also have them applied via a rune system like Guild Wars uses so that they are divorced from items with stats and you can keep using your favorite set as long as you want if the way it changes up the gameplay speaks to you. Thus you can get some minor/moderate gameplay variation without creating entirely new classes and apply ideas that couldn't see play in a new class due to too much overlap with an existing class' niche by instead applying it as a variation option on that class itself. Still heinously difficult to balance though and in the end, set bonuses will always sound cool on paper but fall apart in execution. Edit: I would be very interested in seeing a game that took a whack at the "Sets as a way to implement class variants in a regimented way that doesn't fall under the illusion of choice issues present in talent systems" though. It'd be an interesting thought experiment if nothing else. I don't think FF14 is the game to do that though. Obligatum VII fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 19:53
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Mordiceius posted:I don't want to make it seem like I'm making GBS threads all over your thoughts on this, because I really like the idea in theory. I always liked the idea of set bonuses and special gear features. The problem is that there are so many pitfalls we don't think about with it. Yeah, definitely. I agree with all the issues that you pointed out and that's why I think, ultimately, FFXIV's never going to go that route and probably shouldn't. I'm the kind of player who wants to engage with those sorts of gear choices, but I think I'm seriously in the minority there. The most realistic thing to implement of all of that, I think, would be set bonuses. It's telling that they're one of the few areas where gear doesn't just flat increase numbers that WoW kept around: they're easier to understand, require less thought than trinkets, and as long as you balance the next tier of gear to be strong enough to justify breaking your full set bonus to wear some of it, you're golden. That said, it also has issues in a game with linear gear progression. What's the point of cool set bonuses that slightly change the way you play if they're only ever going to last you for one tier, because the next tier is definitely going to be stronger no matter how much you like your set bonus? This isn't Diablo, where a set can be the cornerstone of an entire build. That's true because a) Diablo doesn't have an ever-increasing item level progression and FFXIV does, and b) FFXIV doesn't even really have builds. Interesting gear is something I always liked about Destiny, actually. I liked how exotic weapons could behave really differently from other weapons of their category, or exotic armor could tangibly change one of your class's abilities. But those things work because every player's main method of interacting with enemies is shooting them with guns and that isn't class-dependent, and because each class only has three (I guess four in Destiny 2) active abilities outside of shooting guns, and they're all pretty strictly and narrowly defined (grenade, melee, super, that's it). That isn't how FFXIV works. You have at least a dozen active abilities that all play a role in what your job does in battle, and making tangible changes to them based on gear can have a huge effect on how each ability interacts with the other ones you have. It's just not feasible. The only way I could see set bonuses really working in FFXIV is if gear with set bonuses could have its item level upgraded with each tier, sort of like how you can increase your gear's Light in Destiny. That way, if you have a set bonus you like from 5.1 and you don't like the 5.3 gear's set bonus as much, you can consume that 5.3 gear to bring your 5.1 gear up to speed and keep your set bonus. The problem with that is that now set bonuses need to be balanced against each other or you risk a situation where a job gets their best set bonus in the first raid tier and just never gets a new, cool set of gear because everything's worse. All of this is a really long way of saying that I absolutely understand why FFXIV opts for very simple itemization, I guess. Obligatum VII posted:If I had to do set bonuses, I'd keep the potency of any effects they applied smallish (or have them apply changes to abilities that don't affect their overall numbers but more in how they function) and also have them applied via a rune system like Guild Wars uses so that they are divorced from items with stats and you can keep using your favorite set as long as you want if the way it changes up the gameplay speaks to you. That's actually a good point: tying set bonuses to something like GW2's runes is a good way to make sure that they're not tied to any specific tier of gear and sidesteps that last problem I mentioned. Of course, it still plays into all the other problems with set bonuses, like you point out, so again, I can see why they're never going to do that. Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 19:53
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Holyshoot posted:you can't kill the hardest stuff without the gear it drops. h t h 
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Jul 6, 2017 19:56
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My argument against "interesting gear set bonuses" isn't that they'll make other things obsolete, or make people do old content long into an expansion, but that if those things make a class more fun to play they should just be default parts of that kit. I played BLM in 3.X for two years and never got sick of it because I fundamentally enjoyed how it played, if the base class designs are strong, offer room for growth, and have cool toolkits then modifying them with temporary upgrades feels like an unnecessary design burden.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:56
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Holyshoot posted:you can't kill the hardest stuff without the gear it drops. h t h This was an actual dilemma players faced in gordias
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