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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Post 9-11 User posted:While it's true that both the RNC and DNC have been coopted by private interests, it's cute that people still argue that the party that openly and explicitly states its goal is to enrich the elites at the expense of the poor is somehow no worse than Democrats. That's the dem objective too That's why they support payday loans I guess the fact they say they care about the poor makes all the difference though Condiv fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 12:11
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Majorian posted:Oh sure, believe me, I'm 100% onboard with that. Nuclear nonproliferation is very much my pet cause. I just think it's helpful to remember that, even discounting the possibility of nuclear war, the no-fly zone was still a bad idea. Was your textbook Sum of All Fears or Clear and Present Danger, I forget
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Jul 8, 2017 12:18
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While the GOP is clearly worse than the dems, there are definitely people in the Democratic party who sure try their damnedest to give them a run for their money.Majorian posted:Oh sure, believe me, I'm 100% onboard with that. Nuclear nonproliferation is very much my pet cause. I just think it's helpful to remember that, even discounting the possibility of nuclear war, the no-fly zone was still a bad idea. I'd say that calling it a bad idea is a bit of an understatement, but I get your point.
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Jul 8, 2017 12:24
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Post 9-11 User posted:While it's true that both the RNC and DNC have been coopted by private interests, it's cute that people still argue that the party that openly and explicitly states its goal is to enrich the elites at the expense of the poor is somehow no worse than Democrats. They are better because at least they are honest about their objectives.
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Jul 8, 2017 13:25
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NewForumSoftware posted:They are better because at least they are honest about their objectives. Pretty much this. They both actually do the same thing. Democrats just manage to actually pass the really bad poo poo (like lovely trade deals and permanent enshrinement of certain tax cuts) because they still wear the cloak of their FDR and civil rights past. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 14:01
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Condiv posted:it is. the big source on all this fraud bs is a loving vermont republican and ranking member of the vermont republican party so just as valid as most Clinton "scandals", in other words
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Jul 8, 2017 14:20
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Polygynous posted:so just as valid as most Clinton "scandals", in other words Yep Which makes the hillary faithful peddling this scandal particularly funny and ironic
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Jul 8, 2017 14:53
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Was your textbook Sum of All Fears or Clear and Present Danger, I forget Hey now, my MA was distinctly anti-Clancy, thank you very much.  ("Red October" is a drat good movie though, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise)
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Jul 8, 2017 16:11
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Majorian posted:Hey now, my MA was distinctly anti-Clancy, thank you very much. My dude you took some bullshit Tom Clancy rear end class
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Jul 8, 2017 17:07
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:My dude you took some bullshit Tom Clancy rear end class My career since then would suggest otherwise. But hey, I'm sorry your own life is going so poorly that you feel you have to get personal with me. 
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Jul 8, 2017 18:55
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NewForumSoftware posted:They are better because at least they are honest about their objectives. This isn't even true, but even if it was it'd be dumb as gently caress.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:02
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NewForumSoftware posted:They are better because at least they are honest about their objectives. Helsing posted:This isn't even true, but even if it was it'd be dumb as gently caress. Yeah, I'm not sure you know who you're talking about, NFS. The GOP doesn't keep winning by telling its voters that it will cut Medicare and give tax cuts to billionaires. It wins by telling them that they're going to make health care cheaper, create jobs, etc.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:11
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Condiv posted:That's the dem objective too As far as I can tell a single high profile democrat (Debbie Wasserman Schultz) supported payday loans and has been slammed for it by Elizabeth Warren and has had a primary challenger funded against her by Bernie Sanders. It's made her pretty loving unpopular, just unfortunately primarily outside of her district. As far as I can tell her legislation to protect payday lenders has not gained traction among democrats. So trying to conflate "a single lovely (if formerly powerful) democrat supports payday lenders" with "the democratic party supports payday lenders" is not exactly accurate to say the least. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is the sort of democrat who needs to be removed from the party at best, utterly sidelined at worst.
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Jul 8, 2017 20:06
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all the relatively powerful democrats are lovely ones. rahm emmanuel. andrew cuomo, corey booker, etc. yeah there are good dems, but they're kept far from power so the bad dems can sell the party out to big business some more
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Jul 8, 2017 20:15
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The party that is useless at consolidating power and intimidating its enemies yet, by an overwhelming aggregate, advocates for the poor rather than trying to fleece and imprison them, is Just As Bad. And I thought I was jaded, jesus christ. No reason to support local candidates or write your representatives either, huh? #Helpless #ThoughtsAndPrayers #NothingWeCanDo #EverythingHappensForAReason #Inshallah 
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Jul 8, 2017 20:34
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Post 9-11 User posted:The party that is useless at consolidating power and intimidating its enemies yet, by an overwhelming aggregate, advocates for the poor rather than trying to fleece and imprison them, is Just As Bad. i think you might've missed where kamala harris argued for keeping prisoners enslaved cause california needed laborers for its supermax prisons. or rahm emmanuel implementing an idiotic program where chicago kids can't get their hs diploma without attending college or getting a job oh, and obama surely didn't fleece the poor when he allowed the banks to foreclose and evict them with almost no resistance even though said banks behavior was clearly illegal, right? they're doing a real bang up job of protecting the poor
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Jul 8, 2017 20:36
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Post 9-11 User posted:yet, by an overwhelming aggregate, advocates for the poor rather than trying to fleece and imprison them lol that you believe this take a look at who funds the DNC
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Jul 8, 2017 20:36
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Condiv posted:all the relatively powerful democrats are lovely ones. rahm emmanuel. andrew cuomo, corey booker, etc. yeah there are good dems, but they're kept far from power so the bad dems can sell the party out to big business some more this is how i see it like, they let people like warren have their one little firebrand issue because it reflects well on the party and they can point to it to deflect criticism but those same people are forced to toe the line for every other lovely bad dem policy and will never serve as anything other than as cover for criticisms of the party
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Jul 8, 2017 20:37
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Condiv posted:i think you might've missed where kamala harris argued for keeping prisoners enslaved cause california needed laborers for its supermax prisons. harris is a boring centrist who has nothing but her gender, race, and age to suggest her, but this is a dumb attack based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how AG offices work and how much involvement an AG has in ongoing litigation. Suffice to say without some evidence she was personally involved beyond "her office", because there's a bunch of civil service issues going on here
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Jul 8, 2017 20:59
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Condiv posted:all the relatively powerful democrats are lovely ones. rahm emmanuel. andrew cuomo, corey booker, etc. yeah there are good dems, but they're kept far from power so the bad dems can sell the party out to big business some more Don't hurt yourself moving those goalposts, friend. The democratic party is lovely and dysfunctional enough that we don't have to make up outright falsehoods like "The democrats support fleecing the poor with payday loans  "
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Jul 8, 2017 21:00
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Condiv posted:all the relatively powerful democrats are lovely ones. rahm emmanuel. andrew cuomo, corey booker, etc. yeah there are good dems, but they're kept far from power so the bad dems can sell the party out to big business some more And yet the powerful Dems have been weakened to a degree we haven't seen in decades, and the good Democrats have an opportunity to seize control. It's unlikely to make everything "okay," or to single-handedly fix the party, but if Warren, Sanders, or someone similar manages to get the nomination, it will be a massive step in the right direction.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:02
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Majorian posted:And yet the powerful Dems have been weakened to a degree we haven't seen in decades, and the good Democrats have an opportunity to seize control. It's unlikely to make everything "okay," or to single-handedly fix the party, but if Warren, Sanders, or someone similar manages to get the nomination, it will be a massive step in the right direction. yes it will, but we haven't seen good movement on that yet.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:05
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:harris is a boring centrist who has nothing but her gender, race, and age to suggest her, but this is a dumb attack based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how AG offices work and how much involvement an AG has in ongoing litigation. oh, so she had no idea her office would be fighting against releasing non-violent offenders whose release had been ordered? i don't really believe that
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Jul 8, 2017 21:07
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you can tell how sincere she was about that when she said "it's terrible that our prison labor system could be perceived as abusive!!"
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Jul 8, 2017 21:14
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Warren has been one of the most vocal opponents of Wall Street and big banks that I've seen. I've seen her basically lay out the "gently caress you got mine" mentality in speeches in the Senate. She owns and if she ran for 2020 I think she'd do quite well if she showed that kind of passion towards healthcare and wage hikes as well. Like, if she's a "bad dem" then we really are hosed.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:18
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Condiv posted:yes it will, but we haven't seen good movement on that yet. What would constitute "movement" to you in this regard, exactly?
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Jul 8, 2017 21:26
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Condiv posted:oh, so she had no idea her office would be fighting against releasing non-violent offenders whose release had been ordered? i don't really believe that The specifics of the "it'd be too expensive to lose their la or" argument? Yeah
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Jul 8, 2017 21:30
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:The specifics of the "it'd be too expensive to lose their la or" argument? Yeah how is approving the general gist of that argument ok in the first place? when is it to keep prisoners ordered released just cause you don't want to pay real money for work? Majorian posted:What would constitute "movement" to you in this regard, exactly? more of the stuff we saw with ironstache's former opponent.centrists actually starting to work with the left instead of stonewalling like rendon or tons of other centrists do right now
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Jul 8, 2017 21:41
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I just wish Cornel West would run in 2020 at this point.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:42
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It's insanely cool that centrist concern troll types turned on West during the primary.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:52
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Condiv posted:all the relatively powerful democrats are lovely ones. rahm emmanuel. andrew cuomo, corey booker, etc. yeah there are good dems, but they're kept far from power so the bad dems can sell the party out to big business some more I think this is because politicians with a lot of power tend to come from areas with a lot of economic clout, and as a result they tend to be influenced by that clout (since they're lobbied heavily by the industries in their states/districts). Post 9-11 User posted:The party that is useless at consolidating power and intimidating its enemies yet, by an overwhelming aggregate, advocates for the poor rather than trying to fleece and imprison them, is Just As Bad. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying Democrats are actually in favor of doing things to help the poor. Their rhetoric is often targeted at stuff like income inequality, but in practice Democrats generally range from "attempting to stop GOP attempts to attack the poor" to "actively wanting to hurt the poor, but less than the GOP." There weren't really many voices (until very recently, anyways) actually advocating for anything that would address the structural inequalities that result in wealth/income inequality. Of course, this still makes them significantly better than the GOP. But I feel pretty confident saying that the Democrats, left to their own devices, would never actually be willing to change the status quo enough to make a big difference when it comes to things like poverty. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 22:06
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https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/882674564316246016
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Jul 9, 2017 01:16
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The Kingfish posted:It's insanely cool that centrist concern troll types turned on West during the primary. Cornel West rules (although I don't agree with him on everything, like abandoning the democratic party and attempting to create a new one https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/25/cornel_west_former_sanders_staffer_on) quote:The neoliberal era in the United States ended with a neofascist bang. The political triumph of Donald Trump shattered the establishments in the Democratic and Republican parties – both wedded to the rule of Big Money and to the reign of meretricious politicians. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election
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Jul 9, 2017 02:42
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Holy poo poo there's only one that's so much as merely extremely lame, for the rest we've got Stubborn Insistence On Cult Of Hillary, a full on embrace of Less Bad Than Our Opponents, and Our Opponent's Slogan, But Worse.
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Jul 9, 2017 03:31
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The Dem 2018 midterm slogan might as well be 'America Is Already Great' at this rate.
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Jul 9, 2017 03:53
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reignonyourparade posted:Holy poo poo there's only one that's so much as merely extremely lame, for the rest we've got Stubborn Insistence On Cult Of Hillary, a full on embrace of Less Bad Than Our Opponents, and Our Opponent's Slogan, But Worse. the she persisted one is actually referring to something mcconnell said about warren when warren spoke over length. "she persisted" and then they cut off the mic. so it's a bad slogan because its meaning fails to be understood by anyone but wonks, who are already paying attention and who are the last people who you need to draw in with a catchy phrase
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Jul 9, 2017 04:02
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"I mean, have you seen the other guys?" was basically the 2016 election platform and that sure worked out well.
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Jul 9, 2017 04:23
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Rodatose posted:the she persisted one is actually referring to something mcconnell said about warren when warren spoke over length. "she persisted" and then they cut off the mic. Its an extra really bad slogan because it could pass as a republican victory chant after their 2016 victory.
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Jul 9, 2017 04:26
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Kokoro Wish posted:"I mean, have you seen the other guys?" was basically the 2016 election platform and that sure worked out well. It also indicates the DNC has no intention on adopting leftist platforms, which is the worst part.
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Jul 9, 2017 04:28
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We have to go to war against the DNC. There's literally no other way.
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Jul 9, 2017 04:33
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