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Wildtortilla posted:Are T/M multicast viable? Most powerful character is probably Gnome Illusionist/Thief, so yea. Can use shortbow in BG1 and sleep, then in later games starts going invis and using traps and backstabbing, basically a monster of a character. The gnome ill/thief is so great because they get an extra spell per rest on every level from the illusionist specialisation and the bonus saving throws and AC for being a shorty. There used to be an exploit where you could simacularium at the start of a map and stay perma invis and backstab everything to death but IDK if that still works or not. Even if not you can still just invis and backstab then repeat. Timestop and throw down traps etc etc etc. More tricks and crazy combos than any other class really. It's too bad you can't make a cleric/mage/thief that might be the only thing that would top it. F/M/T and F/C/M are great but hampered in any kind of party because of slow XP progression and level caps. And Kensai->Thief, Kensai->Mage or Berserker->Mage basically take nearly all of BG1 before coming online with the second class (and if you are nuts and take the Kensai or Berserker to 9 it takes much much longer). They are all very strong as well, just not immediately powerful like the Gnome Ill/Thief is. Washout fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 03:40
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downside: jan jansen already exists and is perfection in digital form the most powerful character (other than any rogue with spike trap cheese which is mega lame  ) imho is probably inquisitorI had never used keldorn so when I made one I was pleasantly surprised I don't like backstabs, maybe on insane difficulty chain backstabbing is super useful but for regular folks like me it just feels unnecessary
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Jul 8, 2017 16:37
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Blade (bard kit) is incredibly strong if micromanaged, and conveniently you can get one. Cleric/Mage, too, Aerie is easily one of the most powerful characters in the series.
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Jul 8, 2017 16:41
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Washout posted:Most powerful character is probably Gnome Illusionist/Thief, so yea. Can use shortbow in BG1 and sleep, then in later games starts going invis and using traps and backstabbing, basically a monster of a character. The gnome ill/thief is so great because they get an extra spell per rest on every level from the illusionist specialisation and the bonus saving throws and AC for being a shorty. There used to be an exploit where you could simacularium at the start of a map and stay perma invis and backstab everything to death but IDK if that still works or not. Even if not you can still just invis and backstab then repeat. Timestop and throw down traps etc etc etc. More tricks and crazy combos than any other class really. It's too bad you can't make a cleric/mage/thief that might be the only thing that would top it. Multi-classed Illusionists effectively get extra spells for nothing, and saving throw bonuses thanks to being Gnomes on top of it. Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:downside: jan jansen already exists and is perfection in digital form Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 17:15
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Jan's armour is also probably the most op armour in the game (25% full physical damage resistance) next to the Human Skin I guess.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:36
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:downside: jan jansen already exists and is perfection in digital form Yeah I usually play on insane with SCS and remove the super cheesy inquisitor double level dispel and shield of balduran. So backstabbing is a big boon. But I replace it with other cheese so in the end it's all just cheese to play on insane or full SCS anyway really. Washout fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 18:47
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I don't think the EE changed Mislead, so a Mage/Thief can still get infinite backstabs if she wants to.
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Jul 8, 2017 18:56
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I'm currently soloing with a F/M/C and honestly, it doesn't feel as strong as I expected.
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Jul 8, 2017 18:59
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10 base thac0, no extra Apr and only up to level 6 spells make them pretty bad imo Edit: they're decent tanks though tbf Entropy238 fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 19:30
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Mr. Neutron posted:I'm currently soloing with a F/M/C and honestly, it doesn't feel as strong as I expected. Have to remove the level cap if you want to really destroy the world with max level spell shenanigans.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:38
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Last time I had a chance to play BG I finished Chapter 4, and now I believe it's finally time to head to the big city. Looking at the world map there are still several areas I haven't visited, most appear to be wilderness areas and one is the Fire Bridge, which I'm about half way through exploring now. Will I eventually be directed to those areas as part of quests or should I check them out before visiting Baldur's Gate?
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Jul 8, 2017 19:40
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Wildtortilla posted:Last time I had a chance to play BG I finished Chapter 4, and now I believe it's finally time to head to the big city. Looking at the world map there are still several areas I haven't visited, most appear to be wilderness areas and one is the Fire Bridge, which I'm about half way through exploring now. Will I eventually be directed to those areas as part of quests or should I check them out before visiting Baldur's Gate? Firewine bridge is probably the single worst dungeon design in any infinity engine game so feel free to skip it, mind.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:43
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Wildtortilla posted:Last time I had a chance to play BG I finished Chapter 4, and now I believe it's finally time to head to the big city. Looking at the world map there are still several areas I haven't visited, most appear to be wilderness areas and one is the Fire Bridge, which I'm about half way through exploring now. Will I eventually be directed to those areas as part of quests or should I check them out before visiting Baldur's Gate? Some of the best gear is just sitting on some gobshite out in the middle of nowhere, so I'd explore everywhere unless you already know and have all the gear you want.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:44
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I'm playing the game mostly blind so I'm going to keep exploring these places. Maybe I'll stop in BG to check out shops cause I have about 30,000 gold piled up. Even after finding some awesome black thief armor for Coran at a blacksmith's shop in... Breregost I believe.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:48
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Wildtortilla posted:I'm playing the game mostly blind so I'm going to keep exploring these places. Maybe I'll stop in BG to check out shops cause I have about 30,000 gold piled up. Even after finding some awesome black thief armor for Coran at a blacksmith's shop in... Breregost I believe. Yep. Taerom Fuirim (I know I'm mispelling that, both the canonical name and BG's error of it) and the wizard at High Hedge do sell good end-game quality gear as their best items.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:17
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Using EEKeeper or Shadowkeeper to make a Fighter/Avenger is a fun solo run for BG2, it's not as powerful as other options, but gives you some fun poo poo to play with, and having access to lighting bolt and full elemental resistance is loving hilarious in tiny rooms. I don't think I'd try it for a full trilogy run though, BG1 would be harsh.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:26
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Well this is lame. About 45 minutes ago saving sometimes started to take several seconds to happen, but I figured my computer was just doing something dumb in the background and it wasn't every time I saved, so I ignored it. It just happened for the first time in like 15 minutes so I decided to reboot the game. BG froze when I closed it and I had to kill it with task manager and now at the load screen all my saves are from just before saving started to take several seconds to happen. 
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Jul 8, 2017 22:00
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In general with multiclassing/dual classing/etc, at least so far as my opinion goes, here's my list. Class/Class denotes multiclass, Class -> Class denotes human dual classing. Fighter/Cleric - best at defense, still has huge offense. Berserker->Cleric can solo the game with ease and is probably the best rendition. That said, Dwarf or Half-Orc Fighter/Cleric is extremely good themselves, and unlocks Greater Whirlwind, which shouldn't in any way be ignored. Fighter/Druid - Be Ranger/Cleric instead. It's not that Fighter/Druid is bad - ironskins and BUGS are both extremely valuable - it's just that druid spells lean towards being more offensive, and with this multiclass, you want more buff spells then attack spells. Fighter/Mage - best at open offense. Kensai->Mage has the highest pure offense, Berserker->Mage has incredible offense alongside incredible defense, gnome Fighter/Illusionist is potentially the best of all of them thanks to shorty saves and extra spells but at the cost of being a gnome. Personally, I'd go with gnome Fighter/Illusionist as the most powerful but most ridiculous, Berserker-> Mage as the most viable throughout the entire campaign, and Kensai->Mage as the most iconic and stylish, if also the most copied. Fighter/Thief - Fantastic murderer throughout most of the series; thief but better (like all thief multiclasses). Starts to lose a bit of steam in ToB where you need magic defenses and easier ways to trigger backstab. Best as Kensai->Thief, which unlocks Use Any Item on your Kensai, which should be super good, but losing greater whirlwind suuuuuuucks. Probably the best at overdamaging backstab love taps. Cleric/Ranger - Better then Fighter/Cleric if you have the chance, but as it's half-elves only, you probably don't. Well, probably better then Fighter/Druid, at least. Cleric/Mage - all the spells with a lot of fun interactions at higher levels. Slow start, but ends horrifyingly monstrous. Cleric/Thief - Worse then all the other cleric multiclasses, also worse then all the other thief multiclasses, and yet still better then single thief in almost every way. Mage/Thief - Single target assassin. Or I guess mage with a shortbow. Capable of hilariously monstrous backstab crits that can chunk anything in the game with a single love tap. Assassin->Mage is the best human configuration, otherwise, Jan Janson Illusionist/Thief is your main model. Use quarterstaves (Staff of the Ram!) and illusion spells that grant invisibility to hilarious effectiveness. Triple Multiclass - Awful unless you kill the level limiter, and even then, I still think you're better off as a dual class. FMC is way too cluttered - pick two. FMT is mostly there just so you can experience as much of BG's content in a solo playthrough as possible, but like, ehhhhhh. REASONS: Thief is all about the backstab love tap - great single target, but less great against groups. Open offense - that is to say, not just a single-target backstab offense - in ToB is best performed either with a wave of horrid wiltings or, more properly and better, at the hands of fighters of some stripe who're either greater whirlwinding or are given Improved Haste. Defense by the time you reach ToB is all about magical defenses, immunities, and melee, as monster hit bonuses spike so hard that AC becomes pointless, non-damaging spells become way more terrifying then damaging spells, and ranged damage starts to fall behind hard. Consequently, this is why dual wielding and spellcaster multiclasses/dual classes become so valuable. The opposite holds true in Baldur's Gate 1, where AC and kiting reign supreme. Berserker's rage ability is super powerful because it is always good. In early levels it is a substantial buff to melee fighting. Later on, it's immunities are priceless. Kensai's "always on" bonuses legitimately can't compare. On the other hand, you actually have to know when and where to Rage, which makes Kensai less complicated. On the third hand, Berserker can wear armor, and thus requires less micromanagement. Shorty saves: Gnomes, dwarves, and halflings all get a bonus to their saving throws based on their constitution. It is significant. Don't dual class on a whim. Dual classing is weird and sometimes complicated. Plan your dual class out in advance. Often times, you're better off with a multiclass. Greater Whirlwind is better for characters with a two hander or an offhand that doesn't give an additional attack. Improved Haste is better for those that do have the bonus attack offhand. BOTH are incredible. Some of the best weapons in the game are all blunt (specifically, flail and warhammer), which is why cleric suffers almost no actual major loss in offensive power due to weapons choice.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:35
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Ranger/Cleric no longer gets all druid spells in the EE games so it's a pretty pointless dual/multi now.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:55
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Fighter/Druid ignores most druid class restrictions and is super good, better tank than fighter/cleric for sure.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:05
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Yeah they're restricted to druid weaponry but they can otherwise wear anything a fighter can in all other slots. F/C for DPS (righteous magic, draw upon holy might) and party buffs. F/D for tanking and insect related shenanigans. Also nature's beauty, the Great Script Breaker.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:08
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Fighter->Druid is one of my fav to play because if you dual at level 9 fighter in BG1 then you can get your fighter levels back before the end due to Druids weird levelling. And then you've got access to all the druid spells which are really fun, but you don't have to be gimped by multiclass underlevelling or single class shiftiness.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:14
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bike tory posted:Fighter->Druid is one of my fav to play because if you dual at level 9 fighter in BG1 then you can get your fighter levels back before the end due to Druids weird levelling. And then you've got access to all the druid spells which are really fun, but you don't have to be gimped by multiclass underlevelling or single class shiftiness. You can hit level 9 in BG1?
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Jul 9, 2017 00:19
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Skwirl posted:You can hit level 9 in BG1? Not without removing or increasing the XP cap, no. With the expansion installed or in the EE, BG1's XP cap is 161,000 which only gets you to fighter level 8. edit: Samuel Clemens posted:Assassin -> Mage doesn't strike me as particularly good. You're basically giving up 10 skillpoints per level for +1 to hit and damage and a mediocre poison ability. Yeah, the increased backstab multiplier from Assassin doesn't kick in until way too late for it to be dual-class viable. Mr. Baps fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 00:25
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Assassin -> Mage doesn't strike me as particularly good. You're basically giving up 10 skillpoints per level for +1 to hit and damage and a mediocre poison ability.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:30
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lol i played through iwd with a small party (f/t, c/m, archer, and a custom class called the Magus) which is a fighter/sorcerer single class (only 2 proficiency points max, -1 spell slots) as it turns out, that's pretty busted lmao oh well it was fun
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Jul 9, 2017 00:38
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I stand by cleric being the better fighter MC then druid, and the idea that the druid is more defensive is nonsense. The only - only - thing they have above the cleric for defense is Ironskins, which yes, it's really good, but losing Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven (and sometimes Crom Fayr) is brutal. No Mace of Disruption, either - and no Lesser Restoration to patch up when you do get level drained because you can't use the Mace of Disruption. Spellwise, you're losing a TON, and what do you get? Oh yeah, Ironskins and insects. Three whole spell. "Cirno, druids can use Belm and thta fireball club!" They sure can, which reiterates my previous point of druids being the more offense focused ones, which again, fits their offense spell heavy special spell list. Lastly, if we're gonna talk about leveling, then let's not forget that giant wasteland in mid-game where druids just stop leveling up seemingly forever. Also? Turn undead, even when multiclassed? Way better then shapeshifting. But what you're also very much missing is that Fighter/Druid is only available to half-elves...who can do the far superior Ranger/Cleric. Yes, the spell bug is fixed. It's still better! If you are human, Berserker -> Cleric for sure, easily, every time. If you're dwarf or half-orc, Fighter/Cleric. If you're a half-elf, Ranger/Cleric. Druids aren't terrible, but as a melee multiclass, clerics are better. Berserker->Cleric: Most of the best buffs in the game, turn undead, can GM a weapon (FLAILS), can some of the best weapons in the game, can use the best armor always (valuable in BG1), gets to be a Fighter in BG1 where they're most valuable (armor, bows), gets access to RAGE which is incredible. Everything is compared to this. Dwarf Fighter/Cleric: Loses GM in flails and the bow in BG1, loses RAGE (ouch), gets more HP and SHORTY SAVES, gets Greater Whirlwind in ToB. Half-orc Fighter/Cleric: Loses more HP and SHORTY SAVES, gets way more attack and damage through 19 strength, gets Greater Whirlwind in ToB. Half-elf Ranger/Cleric: Compared to Berserker->Cleric, you lose GM Flails but gain almost perfect dual wielding right out the gate, though you'll still probably be using a shield in BG1. Gain favored enemy. Level up a tiny bit slower. Compared to the Fighter/Cleric, you lose either the extra strength or shorty saves and a bit of HP, but in return gain the free dual wielding and the favored enemy. You also get Charm Animal which...I mean, it has it's uses in early BG1! Half-elf Fighter/Druid: Lose most of the buffs, gain Ironskins, trade turn undead for weak shapeshifting, cannot GM, lose warhammers (BG1), maces (BG2), bows (BG1) and flails (BG2/ToB) for Scimitars (BG2, and 1 if you murder Drizzt), Daggers (TotSC), and Clubs (ToB, kinda). Armor is limited, yes, even with the fighter multiclass, your best is the bug armor. How is this not a complete downgrade in every way? Samuel Clemens posted:Assassin -> Mage doesn't strike me as particularly good. You're basically giving up 10 skillpoints per level for +1 to hit and damage and a mediocre poison ability. Not sure why I somehow thought they got their backstab bonus earlier. 10 skill points isn't a horrifying loss (as a Thief/Mage you're going to be relying on spells, not stealth) but yeah, that's not a great trade. Mea culpa. Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:lol i played through iwd with a small party (f/t, c/m, archer, and a custom class called the Magus) Yeah that class is kinda absurd, especially if you could play it as a shorty race.
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Jul 9, 2017 02:41
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I'm having a brain fart, would bracers with AC 7 or 8 offer more defense?
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Jul 9, 2017 03:20
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Lower AC is better.
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Jul 9, 2017 03:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:Dwarf Fighter/Cleric: Loses GM in flails and the bow in BG1, loses RAGE (ouch), gets more HP and SHORTY SAVES, gets Greater Whirlwind in ToB. Half-Orc extra STR is largely pointless especially past early/mid BG1; you're playing a Cleric, so you've got STR buffs coming out your rear end. The Ranger/Cleric has a definite edge early on thanks to extra proficiencies alone, but everything else including the low level Druid spells is situational. In the long run, I'll take the saving throws and faster leveling. The faster leveling isn't as negligible as you may think, by the way. You get the last attack rate increase about half a million XP early, and it translates to two extra HLAs later on, three at the level cap if you ever reach it. quote:Half-elf Fighter/Druid: Lose most of the buffs, gain Ironskins, trade turn undead for weak shapeshifting, cannot GM, lose warhammers (BG1), maces (BG2), bows (BG1) and flails (BG2/ToB) for Scimitars (BG2, and 1 if you murder Drizzt), Daggers (TotSC), and Clubs (ToB, kinda). Armor is limited, yes, even with the fighter multiclass, your best is the bug armor. How is this not a complete downgrade in every way?
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Jul 9, 2017 09:52
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Just a heads up for anyone that might be interested, the Pathfinder: Kingmaker Kickstarter, inspired by the classic IE games, is about to enter its final 48 hours. Despite the somewhat generic look of the graphics, I'm digging what I see.
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Jul 9, 2017 11:07
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Fighter/Druid probably isn't as good as Fighter/Cleric, but it gives you a good excuse to try out some of the more uncommonly used magic items. Like no one specs a pure class fighter for spears, but the Impaler is a loving hilarious weapon with someone who can attack more than once a round.
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Jul 9, 2017 11:14
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Walrus Pete posted:Not without removing or increasing the XP cap, no. With the expansion installed or in the EE, BG1's XP cap is 161,000 which only gets you to fighter level 8. If you have the Siege of Dragonspear expansion for the EE, the cap increases to 500,000. Most level 9 dual classes can reach level 10 in their 2nd class by the time they reach that cap. I think Fighter 9->Cleric 10 is one of the few that can't, that requires 700,000 XP IIRC.
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Jul 9, 2017 11:25
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gently caress dual classing imo – I'll take tasty shorty saves, better Thac0 and better HLAs any day of the week.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:31
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I cleared all the wilderness areas on my map and before heading to Baldur's Gate to continue the story I checked a world map online and I'm missing Durlag's Tower. Do I have to do something special to trigger that location to be added to my map?
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Jul 9, 2017 16:19
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Wildtortilla posted:I cleared all the wilderness areas on my map and before heading to Baldur's Gate to continue the story I checked a world map online and I'm missing Durlag's Tower. Do I have to do something special to trigger that location to be added to my map? It's part of the Tales of the Sword Coast expansion. You could unlock that now by heading to Ulgoth's Beard in the northeast of the map, but I recommend waiting until the end of Chapter 6 or so.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:33
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I'm going to go on record that experience caps in general are shite, but nowhere more so than in Infinite Engine games. On the subject of the much-vaunted Ranger/Cleric, didn't they put a binary argument somewhere in one of the EE files where you can change it to the old, "broken" way? I could have sworn that I've seen tips in various places about how to change it back.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:35
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Suspicious posted:Lower AC is better.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:39
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jBrereton posted:Except in the 3e infinity engine game IWD2, of course. It's a good thing 3rd edition doesn't have items with that naming scheme, then!
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Jul 9, 2017 16:47
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm going to go on record that experience caps in general are shite, but nowhere more so than in Infinite Engine games. I dug through the thread and found this. Last time I tested it, it worked perfectly. biscuits and crazy posted:
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Jul 9, 2017 18:33
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