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Good GOD.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:14
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I bet that cost a little extra and for good reason.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:15
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Teenage Fansub posted:Man. It's.. beautiful
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Jul 9, 2017 05:23
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That is goddamn amazing. But that Hulk looks really weird and I can't stop looking at him.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:24
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All I've read recently is wasp and I just got marvel unlimited using their code. I let my sub lapse for about a year and a half, just around the end of secret wars. I tried to read totally awesome hulk, but then I gotnto the civil war 2 issues and thought it was dumb. Event tie ins are dumb. Events are dumb.
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Jul 9, 2017 06:03
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It also makes a great phone wallpaper, it's fun to scroll from the Inhumans on one end to Daredevil on the other.
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Jul 9, 2017 06:17
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Two quick questions 1. Has anyone read or had confirmed that the Hickman Avengers Omnibus is in his preferred order like FF was? Just wanted to know before I order it. 2. Is Captain American still a goddamn Nazi?
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Jul 9, 2017 16:37
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Two quick questions Steve is currently ruling over the United States of Hydramerica as the leader of Hydra. Yeah, he's still a nazi.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:13
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Two quick questions The order is apparently approved by Hickman, but I haven't seen anyone list out the exact format in the collection yet quote:2. Is Captain American still a goddamn Nazi? Captain America is still leading Hydra, unless that Steve who is being rescued by shirtless-Red-Skull from the land of the dead type-place ends up being the real-er Steve somehow.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:18
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Nilbop posted:I like them because they're fun characters that have had enjoyable stories written about them that I enjoy. Their exposure has bugger all to do with me liking them, it just means I'm more likely to see them. If exposure was all that mattered Roman Reigns would be the most popular wrestler in the world. "I like these characters because they've had enjoyable stories written about them over the course of several decades by hundreds of writers. Exposure doesn't matter." Nilbop posted:you can't blame Marvel for printing what the fans want and you can't blame the fans for wanting it. Sure I can. I can blame the fans for being afraid of change and clinging to what is safe and comfortable and refusing to even try new things and getting upset when different things happen. I can absolutely blame the editorial for allowing their own personal fanboyism to control and influence storylines to the point they will actively get rid of character development in order to do that. (You're never going to make me believe the argument Peter "Married for Decades" Parker needing his magical devil divorce was something the fans demanded.) The fact that they are what 'sells' doesn't particularly matter because if what sells isn't growing the brand then Marvel is proving that they're clinging to an increasingly small fanbase, not figuring out how to get new ones, and that isn't sustainable. Obviously if the new heroes aren't selling that means they're not the answer but it doesn't mean retreating back to Marginally More Sales is either.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:The fact that they are what 'sells' doesn't particularly matter because if what sells isn't growing the brand then Marvel is proving that they're clinging to an increasingly small fanbase, not figuring out how to get new ones, and that isn't sustainable.  This is the huge flaw in the "stick to what works" method Marvel keeps falling back on: it doesn't actually work. They're so loving scared of losing ground in the short term that they refuse to think about the long term. DC's been guilty of this time and and again, too.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:10
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I think until they drastically change the way they sell and market comics, "marginally more sales" is about as much as any comic publisher can hope for. The people who don't buy comics because they're expensive and require going to a special store outnumber the people who don't buy comics because all the popular heroes are white a million to one.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:16
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Yeah, but the big 2 publishers are mostly just R&D for giant movie studios and the independent stuff that sells is often very diverse.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:29
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BrianWilly posted:And the more likely they are to be noticed, the more likely they are to sustain any quality. We can go back and forth on this forever, which is why it's a cycle. Them being noticed does not effect their quality. This is a straight line, not a cycle, and it starts with quality. Nothing succeeds without quality. BrianWilly posted:And like, as I keep saying, there are other female or non-white Marvel characters who have been around just as long as those guys, if not longer. So when your off-the-top-of-head list of favorites don't include them and just so happens to be majority male and white anyway, you have to figure there's some reason for that which isn't simply "I just don't like female or non-white characters." List me your 3 favourite She-Hulk, Captain Marvel or Storm stories as quickly as you can. The issue is not how long they've been around, the issue is the quality of their stories over that time. If Mockingbird had had her recent run in the 80s she'd be much more prominent now. Nobody has any obligation to like an unexciting storyline just because it centers around an ethnic or female character. ImpAtom posted:"I like these characters because they've had enjoyable stories written about them over the course of several decades by hundreds of writers. Exposure doesn't matter." So this is just you complaining that I don't agree with you. quote:Sure I can. Fans are allowed to like what they like. Editorial will always do what they want (and you're blaming them for being fanboys when that's exactly the kind of person you want in charge - someone who cares about the product). I don't like Peter's marriage getting magicked away either, but Joe Q (who pushed for that) was pretty instrumental in transforming Marvel from the mess it was in the 90s to where it's been since the year 2000. I can accept we won't always agree with that. While I'm on this I'd just like to say that the implication that anyone who doesn't enjoy how these characters' push have turned out must be racist is super hosed up.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:44
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fadam posted:I think until they drastically change the way they sell and market comics, "marginally more sales" is about as much as any comic publisher can hope for. The people who don't buy comics because they're expensive and require going to a special store outnumber the people who don't buy comics because all the popular heroes are white a million to one. This is absolutely true and a major part of the problem with blaming characters for sales. Comics cater to people who are already comic fans and comic fans are notoriously conservative when it comes to new things. It isn't to say every new character will absolutely succeed or anything but when you're talking about expensive niche products that use increasingly outdated production methods it's no wonder. Nilbop posted:when that's exactly the kind of person you want in charge Absolutely not. The only people who want fanboys in charge are fanboys.There's a difference between being a fan of something and being a mindless fan of something, but I don't even think it's necessarily wrong to have someone writing a book who approaches the character from the direction of something besides a die-hard fan. You can get some incredible stories out of that and avoid some of the "it has to be this way because it's the way it's always been" stuff,.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:56
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Dude no one is saying you're racist, just that it's foolish to think some objective value of 'quality' is the be-all-end-all determinant of success over other factors of the market and business, which includes inherent bias.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:57
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Nilbop posted:
What? He is saying your logic doesn't work because it contradicts itself, which it does. Just say you want the characters you identify with and stop pretending it's something else, it's kind of hosed up
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Jul 9, 2017 20:00
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All those characters and concepts have had tons of time to really establish themselves as part of the Marvel Universe. They had time for people to get attached and understand who they are, the villains they fight, and and their supporting casts. Now, it feels like poo poo will last for 12 issues at the most before a drastic shakeup to the next thing before any kind of status quo can be set up. I think that really hurts the new characters more than anything else.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:40
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If someone came up with Giant-man today that poo poo would get maybe 3 issues.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:48
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Edit: ^^ the tl;dr version Even some of the established characters exist in a different marketplace than they used to. Heroes who had fifty, seventy-five, hundred issue runs back in the day that would struggle to stay in print for even a year before being cancelled. Hard out there for anyone, let alone a new character.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:51
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Lobok posted:Edit: ^^ the tl;dr version Don't forget x-men was cancelled as it was just reprints for like 20 issues before it became the biggest thing
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Jul 9, 2017 20:56
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Nilbop posted:
In no particular order, 1) Storm merging with a space whale 2 )Storm beating the poo poo out of Calisto without using her powers, 3) Storm Beating the poo poo out of Cyclops without having any powers 4) Storm almost destroying the world because Dr Doom trapped her in a mannequin.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:15
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5( Loki tricking Storm into picking up the hammer to marry her or something
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Jul 9, 2017 21:25
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Let's not also forget either of the two Life Death stories. Though I'm sure these will be discounted since their technically X-Men stories that just have large Storm arcs in them. I also think the difference there is that Storm was the #1 or 2 character on X-men throughout the 80s and 90s, while Ms. Marvel basically didn't exist during the 90s thanks to the worst comics story ever, and She-Hulk was basically an also ran character.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:30
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6) Storm laying in Forge's bed moping for like an entire issue yet still managing to be somehow riveting because Claremont. 7) Ms Marvel killing Brood in space with turbolasers like that poo poo was going out of style.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:31
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8) This one. Like if you're literally going to say that 90% of your favorite characters are all coincidentally white and male and not examine any structural, societal, or personal biases for why that might be and how we got to that point, I don't know what else to tell you but that you might be -- as little fault as it may be of your own -- operating from an observably discriminatory baseline, here. I tried to be diplomatic about it but like there's really no other way to put this. It doesn't mean anyone's singling you out. A lot of people are conditioned to bigotry, myself included in quite a lot of ways, because that's just how our media and culture have conditioned us. I'm not saying anything shocking or preposterous here; "Our racist/sexist culture has instilled racist/sexist standards in us" is the lowest common denominator in talking about these issues.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:32
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Best classic Carrol Danvers moment is walking back to the X-mansion after a space adventure , seeing Rogue on the team immediately uppercuts her
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Jul 9, 2017 21:51
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Lobok posted:Edit: ^^ the tl;dr version Not Marvel, but it still amazes me that Cass Cain as Batgirl could have a 73-issue ongoing in the early-mid 2000s because, yeah, if they tried to do something like that today it'd maybe get a quarter of that.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:52
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I really would like to see Marvel do something like a page-a-day, ad-supported web comic, starring the most crazily obscure characters that any writer wants to work with, and monetize it like Panel Syndicate or something. It'd be a nice way to give characters a solo adventure now and again without dooming them to the direct market. They could also stand to outright rip off the DC 99-cent weekly digital comics. Really, cost of entry is becoming a much bigger problem than a lot of people seem to want to admit, especially when you stack American comics up against even officially translated manga.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:59
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Onmi posted:Steve is currently ruling over the United States of Hydramerica as the leader of Hydra. Yeah, he's still a nazi. Well perhaps it's being written well at least. Nuns with Guns posted:Captain America is still leading Hydra, unless that Steve who is being rescued by shirtless-Red-Skull from the land of the dead type-place ends up being the real-er Steve somehow. Nuns with Guns posted:The order is apparently approved by Hickman, but I haven't seen anyone list out the exact format in the collection yet
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Jul 9, 2017 23:24
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Nuns with Guns posted:Not Marvel, but it still amazes me that Cass Cain as Batgirl could have a 73-issue ongoing in the early-mid 2000s because, yeah, if they tried to do something like that today it'd maybe get a quarter of that.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:01
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Cass Cain was kind of the Kamala of her day. I remember there were a lot of fans who instantly latched on to her, some of whom have yet to let go.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:53
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Barbara Gordon just had a series run 53 issues. It would have been more if they hadn't renumbered for Rebirth.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:56
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Wanderer posted:Cass Cain was kind of the Kamala of her day. I remember there were a lot of fans who instantly latched on to her, some of whom have yet to let go. I definitely haven't. Cass Cain is the Batgirl for me.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:10
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Cass Cain was a great Batgirl way better the Barbra has ever been but sadly didn't work in the legacy killing Nu52
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Jul 10, 2017 02:45
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Nilbop posted:Them being noticed does not effect their quality. This is a straight line, not a cycle, and it starts with quality. Nothing succeeds without quality. Jesus Christ how contrarian and obtuse can one person be? It's you, you're the reason the comics industry is in the shitter, from your tautological insistence that the reason people don't like books that push diversity is because they're all bad (with the convenient exception of books you like, because let's dispel the illusion you're anything by disingenuous), to your lovely strawmen like "youre saying all ppl that dont leik Sam Cap R racist!!!". I assume because you're still "on this" you've read both what you just wrote and had written previously without an iota of self-awareness or shame, so all that anyone can do really is laugh at you, and hope you and the rest of the lovely grognards White Knighting for Joe Q or Perlmutter or whatever freak of the week continues to drag down their own industry die off so I stop getting the WASP Avengers shoved down my throat every few years.
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Jul 10, 2017 02:56
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I take that last part back, the Wasp Avengers sounds like a great annual starring Janet and Nadia
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Jul 10, 2017 02:58
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Literally the only thing worse than Marvel's current comic output is the level of discourse surrounding it.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:08
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can there be like a 'diversity in comics thread' to take this constant establishment of hills to die on i would much rather talk about the best Marvel Comic In Publication, Gwenpool. She is cool, and my friend. e: do the dc and indie threads get caught up in this as frequently Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 03:22
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Clawtopsy posted:can there be like a 'diversity in comics thread' to take this constant establishment of hills to die on No they don't. In fact outside a case of an American Dracula complaining about a minor characters sexual orientation, which are rare and far between, this doesn't happen.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:30
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